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Posted: 12/5/2001 1:08:07 PM EDT
Why is it cheaper than the stuff in the store's, "Winchester, Remington, etc"? Because the surplus stuff seem's more powerful to me? I mean when I shoot one of the 5.56mm's I got in a battle pack for cheap, they seem to have more recoil, and more muzzle flash, and are louder,(I don't know if that make's em' more powerful tho?) than the stores' .223's which are like 25 percent more a bullet.

p.s. oh yea and why do they call it 5.56mm and .223 cal? when it's the same bullet?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:34:10 PM EDT
Surplus is just that - Surplus. Some country is just trying to recoup some of its money. Its cheap (yeah!), but you can't sue if the ammo blows up your rifle (think you can sue South Africa if there is a bad round?). Also Suprlus may be of questionable quality. There are all kinds of resons for surplusing the ammo, some of them have to do with problems found durring testing of the ammo. So you pays your money and takes your chances.

Commercial ammo has many more costs assiciated with it (production, liability, scale of manufacture).

5.56 is the Military nomenclature for a specific round and has one (or more) military specifications. .223 Remmington is the civilian name for a round that has the same case and may be loaded the same or similar. Its specs (including pressure) are controlled by an industry standardizations group SAMMI.

The military loads to a higher pressure than the "ambulance chasing lawyer" fearing SAMMI group.

Technically neither are the correct bullet diameter (which is .224" or 5.69mm).
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:46:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:50:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
What Forest said. In addition,
Ammo has a shelf life. Most militaries test their ammo regularly and know when its time to let the stuff go on the market before problems begin to surface.



I'm shooting WWII surplus U.S.G.I. M2 ball in my M-1 Garand. Nearly 60 year old ammo. Not a problem, ever out of over 1,000 rounds. Shoots exactly like it's supposed to. I have well over 1,000 more and don't expect any trouble. Same with my 70's and 80's foreign 7.62 and 5.56.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 1:52:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2001 1:47:08 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:26:04 PM EDT
Thank's, If the ammo is sealed in those air-tight battle pack's does it stay good along time? And what countries would you NOT buy surplus ammo from? Also can you get US surplus 5.56 ammo, and if so where?
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:41:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 3:50:36 PM EDT
Be very leery of any ammunition made in South America, Malaysia, or Singapore....I've had perfectly fine weapons jam, stovepipe, and become totally useless until I could clear them because I used third world ammo. South African 5.56mm and most European ammo. has treated me well for ammo. overseas.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:29:20 PM EDT
Hey J_Smith if you have any of that Malaysian ammo left and want to get rid of it let me know. I will gladly take it off your hands.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 6:44:23 PM EDT
Oh, HELL YES! The Malaysian 5.56mm surplus is among the finest surplus ammo ever released for sale in this country.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:12:14 PM EDT
what about guatamalian?
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 6:05:32 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure I burnt up all the Malaysian and Guatemalan ammo. - I normally buy good factory reloads of M193 or M855 now from Maine Cartridge Company ( No, I have no business affiliation with them - just good prices ). However, when I did have the ammo. it usually functioned in my preban Colt Sporter. My preban Olympic Arms CAR-15 was a different story. The CAR-15 would reliably feed any time of quality ammo without skipping a beat. But the surplus ammo.? It would jam, stovepipe, I even had stuck shell casings where the primer blew out of the casing. A big mess to deal with. I was really impressed with the South African ammo. though - kind of hot loads but seems to function flawlessly.
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 7:41:53 AM EDT
Last winter, I was working doing consulting work at the Army Operations Support Command (OSC) Single Manager for Conventional Ammunition (SMCA). The SMCA procures and manages all the conventional ammunition for the 4 services as well as a lot of state and federal agencies (FBI, etc.) and some foreign militaries. I learned quite a bit up there about all the different types of munitions. I don't know where your surplus is from, but basically, the current US military 5.56 ammo, M855, is loaded a lot hotter than any .223 you'll find. It is a lot hotter than Vietnam era stuff too, so much so that the SMCA contracts for two different loads, because the early M16A1s can't safely handle the higher pressures of the M855. I believe the other load is M193. I may be wrong though. Also, the Army has a demil. schedule for all their munitions. Basically, they destroy it, usually by blowing it up, when it reaches a certain age. It's to make assure that troops are always supplied with reliable and stable munitions.
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 10:02:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Arc_Angel:
I learned quite a bit up there about all the different types of munitions. I don't know where your surplus is from, but basically, the current US military 5.56 ammo, M855, is loaded a lot hotter than any .223 you'll find. It is a lot hotter than Vietnam era stuff too,


While M855 is loaded hotter than comercial .223 it is loaded to the same pressure as M193 (Veitnam era 5.56). Check the Mil-Spec. Chamber pressure is the same, the 55gr has a higher MV due to lower mass.



because the early M16A1s can't safely handle the higher pressures of the M855.


B.S. M16A1s can shoot M855 period, that is why M193 is still produced. It will not pattern at 100 yards and often keyholes. (if you don't have any to try please consult FM23-9 Appendix F - it can be downloaded from old.ar15.com/books)

Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:36:59 AM EDT
My apologies on the M855 post. That is what one of the people up there told me, so I went with it. Although, as I think about it, most of the people I dealt with priced ammo, so I am not sure that most of those folks knew much technical about what they were pricing.
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