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Posted: 11/28/2001 7:20:21 AM EDT
I have a friend who is considering purchasing a Mini 14. I have read that this gun is disappointing in regards to accuracy. Something to do with the receiver design? Your comments would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:33:30 AM EDT
Yeah, I would like to hear comments too. I have a NIB SS 223 model that I bought new in 1991 and forgot about.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:37:23 AM EDT
I considered a Mini at one time myself. Inconsistent accuracy was a recurring comment from folks on this board. The thing that really got me was that apparently Ruger won't supply any replacement parts other than at the factory or maybe to a gunsmith. Although I'm not into heavy modifications, I decided I didn't want something I couldn't do any work on myself.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:44:01 AM EDT
Lousy accuracy due to a cheap crappy barrel, 30 round mags hard to find and expensive when you find them. I had one and am glad it's gone.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:55:21 AM EDT
Get the model with the synthetic stock. If the barrel is decent, which the new ones are, the stock will greatly increase acrruracy due to a better bedding of the action. My all weather ranch model shoots under 1.5 moa ALWAYS. With decent ammo and a 3x9x40 scope, it gets 1moa 5 shot groups @ 100 yards. I have seen the older ones shoot very poorly, but ruger has since then started to make their own barrels. Some have seen improvements on the older guns by having the barrel chopped to 16 inches in order to eliminate barrel whip.

Mags are a little spendy for factory ones, but, believe it or not, I have had very good luck with USA 30's. they fit a little tight, but since they're steel, they don't have feed lip problems like the AR mags. I have 4 usa 30's in blue and stainless; all work perfect.

All in all, it's a nice compromise between the rough ak and the refined AR if you are limited on funds.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:03:29 AM EDT
this might be comparing apples and oranges, but anyway i had a mini-30 for many years and finally realized that i had put enough time into it that it was not going to do better than 2 moa at 100 yards with my best handloads and a scope. it also jammed with the USA 30 round mags and would fail to fire about 5 rounds out of a box of 20 mil-spec ammo (primers probably too hard). Very handy rifle though. The rear sight was flimsy (on the ranch model) and would drift the attachment pin after several mags of shooting. Sold it with scope and 7 high capacity mags plus dies and brass. Broke even and bought a M21. MUCH Better!!

I would not buy another mini-30,

Karl
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:31:21 AM EDT
"Hellraiser" has it right about the barrel.
About eight years ago Ruger was paying $8.00/barrel.
Excellent action, excellent value for the dollar just get it re-barreled.
USA mags of all types and stripes suc*.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:32:01 AM EDT
I traded my Mini 14 in when I bought my AR. The trigger and accuracy sucked. The rear sight appature had way too much play and wobbled around. I think this had alot to do with the poor accuracy. The gun was reliable. I can't remember any jams. I used mostly reloads in 5, 20 and 30 round Ruger and Triple K mags. I bought a 40 round USA but never used it.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:50:29 AM EDT
I see ashley make excellent aftermarket sights for the mini.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:23:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 12:04:20 PM EDT
I actually felt more comfortable with my SS synthetic Mini-14 than I do with either my FAL or my AR. I liked the balance and the ergonomics. I think it goes back to all the time I spent as a kid playing with bolt action (replica) cap guns and bolt action .22s. The controls on the right side just feel more natural to me. I haven't "played" with my FAL or AR enough I guess. I remember amazing my friends by shooting multiple jugs spaced around a berm at about 50yds range, rapidly engaging and blasting each with one shot. Maybe my AR Carbine will do the same but the Mini actual felt better balanced to me. Tactically remember that bank robber in Florida that took out a slew of FBI agents with an off the shelf Mini-14. There was a show on the Discovery channel about it and a movie made based on it. I traded in my Mini for an AR not to long ago in part due to the "status" of an AR and the "stigma" associated with the Mini-14. The downsides of the mini are (among others) the unprotected front site, the thin walled barrel, and worst of all, the lack of mags. I had a stack of SS USAs, that actually worked for me during the short time that I owned it, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on those mags down the road.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 12:52:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 12:45:29 PM EDT by slt223]

Tactically remember that bank robber in Florida that took out a slew of FBI agents with an off the shelf Mini-14. There was a show on the Discovery channel about it and a movie made based on it.


You are refering to the "Miami Shootout". Only two of the agents were hit with the Mini (5 agents total?). I think any gun could have done that off the shelf considering the range was about 35ft.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:23:20 PM EDT
I had a pre-ban stainless Ranch Rifle (.223) for years, and then in 1996 I bought a Bulgarian SLR-95. First trip to the range, the AK was more accurate than the Mini, even though the mini had a scope and the AK had only a red dot sight. I decided that if it wasn't as good as a stock AK, then it needed to go. I have no regrets, and I still have the AK.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:35:46 PM EDT
Mini 14 bashing, my personal favorite pastime. ARBen, I have a VERY hard time believing your claims.


My all weather ranch model shoots under 1.5 moa ALWAYS. With decent ammo and a 3x9x40 scope, it gets 1moa 5 shot groups @ 100 yards.


As a previous owner of a mini 14 I have hands on experience. I owned a new SS model with your alleged "better" barrels. At 100yds it could get about 5-6MOA consistently. At 75yds or closer it was pretty accurate though, but that is hardly anything to write home about. I sold it for an AR and have never regretted it. My SAR 1 is leaps and bounds better than the mini 14. It is cheaper, more accurate, and %100 reliable mags can be had for $7 a piece.

I noticed you live in WI as well. What area do you live in because I would be interested in seeing this magical mini 14.


All in all, it's a nice compromise between the rough ak and the refined AR if you are limited on funds.


I disagree. I would take an AK over the mini 14 any day of the week. All in all I would say the mini 14 is a nice compromise between the Makarov and a Sig P226.

pvtJoker
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:49:12 PM EDT
It's a piece of junk. Bushmaster ar-15's are the way to go. You will not regret it. Very accurate and very user friendly. Do not buy the mini-14 unless you want a scatter gun.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:53:02 PM EDT
M-14's are legal in PRK? I remember hearing that someplace. I was thinking of picking one up before they realize they've missed something. *sigh* SKS instead of an AK, M-14 instead of an AR15. I feel like I'm being handed safety scissors. :0
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:58:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Private_Joker:
Mini 14 bashing, my personal favorite pastime. ARBen, I have a VERY hard time believing your claims.


My all weather ranch model shoots under 1.5 moa ALWAYS. With decent ammo and a 3x9x40 scope, it gets 1moa 5 shot groups @ 100 yards.


As a previous owner of a mini 14 I have hands on experience. I owned a new SS model with your alleged "better" barrels. At 100yds it could get about 5-6MOA consistently. At 75yds or closer it was pretty accurate though, but that is hardly anything to write home about. I sold it for an AR and have never regretted it. My SAR 1 is leaps and bounds better than the mini 14. It is cheaper, more accurate, and %100 reliable mags can be had for $7 a piece.

I noticed you live in WI as well. What area do you live in because I would be interested in seeing this magical mini 14.


All in all, it's a nice compromise between the rough ak and the refined AR if you are limited on funds.


I disagree. I would take an AK over the mini 14 any day of the week. All in all I would say the mini 14 is a nice compromise between the Makarov and a Sig P226.

pvtJoker



Hehehehehe

I knew it wouldn't be too long before someone started the bashing. I am being 100% honest on the accuracy of my rifle. Too bad you got a bad one because I love mine. A lot of the problems have to do with the bedding of the gun. The synthetic stock on mine fits very tight so it is pretty rigid. I will be the first to admit that once the barrel heats up after 50 or more rounds, groups start to shift a lot.

If you were using open sights that would explain the better groupings @ closer ranges. The open sights on mine suck a$$. That is why I put a scope on it.

I do think it is a decent compromise for normal use. It has some better ergonomics and is a little more refined than the ak. if the gun was for combat in some shiat hole, i would also take the ak over the mini, as well as the ar.

I'm in superior, but I don't really have time for much shooting other than the competitive training I'm getting at the U.

Hmmm, I think the AK is more of a compromise between a rifle and shotgun.

Have fun,
ARen
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:15:14 PM EDT
ARBen,

For the record I had a 3x9x32 scope on it. Superior eh? I live in Appleton. That is definitely within driving distance. Make me a believer.

pvtJoker
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:25:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 11:51:42 PM EDT by animal_mother]
Hey ARBen I am with pvtJoker I would also like to see this mini 14 shoot 1.5 inch moa at 100 yards. I had a mini 14 rifle and it was as accurate as shooting a M 14 in full auto. All the the mini 14 is good for is a coat hanger. By the way, where you siting next to a guy shooting a AR and you looked at his target thinking it was yours? That I would believe. I would also like to see your unjammable USA mags in action.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:45:17 PM EDT
I have seen both good and bad Mini-14's. I was furtunate to own a good one (later sold it), but after shooting several more I can tell you that I would never buy another. The only problem I had with mine was attributed to bad ammo. I bought some reloads that were WAY too hot and broke some casings apart in the chamber so what did I do? I sold the rest of the ammo to a buddy that had an AR (and told him the problem of course). He didn't have a problem at all. I now own an AR and won't go back.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:48:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 11:41:54 PM EDT by ARben]

Originally Posted By animal_mother:
By the way, where you siting next to a guy shooting a AR and you looked at his target thinking it was yours? That I would believe.



No, it was definitely my target. I'm not trying to say the mini is super duper, I like my bushy a lot more, but it will shoot as good as it needs to.

Honestly, I hate usa mags, but the ones I have work fine in the mini and my 92fs.

BTW, I would think that a full auto m14 would be just as accurate as a semi only one.

How old are the minis you guys were using?
Mine was a 2000 model. I'll be the first to admit that from the sounds of it I just got lucky.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 12:26:15 AM EDT
We used the GB model when I worked for D.O.C. and they were not bad for the distances we were shooting at.The minis are reliable but they lack for accuracy. I bought a stainless ranch with a synthetic stock in 93', it produced groups like a shotgun at 50 yrds.I would tell your friend to save up and get a good AR! By time he spends the money to get a good barrel he could have a great shooting AR from the start.
...just my two
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 9:40:49 AM EDT
I used to own a mini 14 also. I too sold it and bought an AR. The mini 14 was reliable with the factory 5 round mag, but with 30 round USA's I couldn't shoot more than 2 rounds without a malfunction. A mini 14 costs about $499.00. I put together my AR in January 1999 and spent $775.00 including tax and dros.

My opinion: spend the extra money and get an AR
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 10:10:14 AM EDT
Don't know why I'm even bothering to throw my 2¢ in on this but here goes. I too had (note HAD) a Mini 14 and got rid of it because of the terrible accuracy (or lack there of) and the incredibly expensive mags, what a combination! All to save a couple hundred bucks on the inital purchase!! At 100 yards.......well you need a big target, or a broad side of a barn will do just fine thank you. I had a Maddi AK that shot much, make that MUCH better than the Mini, but the AK mags were a hellva lot cheaper. I actually had a couple 30 rd Thermolds and a, drum roll please....factory Ruger 20 round mag!!! If you insist on one of these (hevans knows people will, I did) get the Eagle Front Sight/Flash Suppressor, if you can. It has a HK style front sight with a hood that is a hundred times better than that POS factory ramp sight, with the accuracy limitations on the rifle, this is all you need as the scope is a waste on this gun.

Bill
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 10:19:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 4:44:36 PM EDT
2 more cents to the pile. My father has an old, 181 series mini 14. His shoots good enough. I can hit a 6" by 6" target at 100 yards most of the time, I could hit a man size target each time if need be. He has some USA mags, and they work OK. As for magazine cost, Ruger factory mags run around $100 (used), and as much as $200 for new ones.

Around here a new in box mini can be had for $419 for the basic model, which is almost half the price of a Bushmaster 20".
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 6:41:54 PM EDT
I like mine. Not incredibly accurate, but I do have a good stash of Masen and Ruger mags, and they work. The gun is reliable and fun to plink with, and I figure if I don't ever use it for anything beyond that I am OK.

I have fond memories of the Mini because it was the first "evil" weapon I bought back in college long ago. Back then Ruger 20-rounders were $12 apiece and everyone thought that was high.
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 2:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2001 6:41:38 AM EDT by JIH]
They're ok if you're wanting a fun gun. But, taking a dollar-for-accuracy measurement between it, an AR, a VEPR II... I cannot tell why anyone buys them.

If it's because you're in the PRK... go to Nevada or Arizona for the weekend, and don't speed on your way back. hings[/Disclaimer]
Link Posted: 11/30/2001 4:05:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 1:47:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2001 1:59:14 AM EDT by tdkak]
I have not had a problem with my mini14,rr it's accurate enough with a properly bedded stock it will get 1.5-2.0 moa accuracy ya it has a thin barrel but even a ar-15 is recommended for sustained rate of fire of 13 rounds per minute.
And to that one guy JIH who said go across state lines and buy a illegal weapon?WTF that is a felony man if he did that!That's stupid!It aint worth it!Then you lose what little rights you do have.F!@K'n stupid people out there.
as far as hi cap mag's go you can purchase them out of state they are not illegal to own.they are illegal to sell in california that's all.
I was a us marine in a boat company and we did boat raids off the coast of camp pendleton and had nothing but trouble with M-16's cause of sand i think personaly they are made for shooting match's and nothing else.ya they are accurate,but what good is accuracy if you cant put rounds down range cause of grit and grime? and a mini 14 or an ak will put rounds down range even dirty.
The Navy seal's are starting to use mini14's hot and heavy cause they say they are really reliable and they are not haveing near the problems with mini's as with m-4's.mini's can be fired underwater too.their mini's have pistol grip stock's or folding stock's.
there isnt a best of both worlds here just a general standard and IMO ar-15's and m-16's do not meet my standards sorry.And i was a good enough rifle shot to be awarded 3rd award expert and shoot on the camp horno rifle team.
I dont think you can go wrong with the mini14 its a tough little rifle and is very reliable.



Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:17:13 AM EDT
Thy're fun to shoot, like an M1 Carbine. But they aren't durable and aren't accurate. They are cheap though. I have one and like it but it'll never replace an AR.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:44:10 AM EDT

The Navy seal's are starting to use mini14's hot and heavy cause they say they are really reliable and they are not haveing near the problems with mini's as with m-4's.mini's can be fired underwater too.their mini's have pistol grip stock's or folding stock's.


Anyone have any confirmation of this from anywhere?
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:50:12 AM EDT
Do not buy. I had two, a stainless Mini-14 and a blue Ranch Rifle. Neither was worth a crap. Target wok with them indicated they shot patterns rather than groups. In addition, the rear sight on the Ranch Rifle fell apart twice in use. I tarted the Ranch Rifle up with a Butler Creek folding stock and some other crap and sold it at a nice profit and traded the stainless toward I forget what. Get an AR if you want a .223 military-style rifle.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 6:04:01 AM EDT
Oh yeah, and after reading what Golgo-13 said, let me add that my Ranch Rifle rear sight fell apart too. The screws back out and if you don't notice it and pull them yourselves or Loc-Tite them down you are screwed. So to speak.

And my Ranch Rifle beat the hell out of the cheap Bushnell I put on top of it, parts of it fell apart too.

I went to an old steel non-variable scope and haven't had any further scope problems, but the Mini is much harder on scopes than a scoped AR15.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 6:48:33 AM EDT

And to that one guy JIH who said go across state lines and buy a illegal weapon?WTF that is a felony man if he did that!That's stupid!It aint worth it!Then you lose what little rights you do have.F!@K'n stupid people out there.
It was a joke. I'll re-edit it and put a smiley on it.

[Disclaimer]
Don't do things that will get you put in jail.
/[Disclaimer]
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 6:56:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2001 6:48:27 AM EDT by LARRYG]

The Navy seal's are starting to use mini14's hot and heavy cause they say they are really reliable and they are not haveing near the problems with mini's as with m-4's.mini's can be fired underwater too.their mini's have pistol grip stock's or folding stock's.
Another urban rumor. I like my Mini, but this is BS.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:09:55 AM EDT
Shot mine for the first time in four years yesterday. I mounted a Comp M on a BSquare receiver mount.

I settled down on a fullsize silloute at 75 yards to get the scope on paper then backed it out to 100 yards. Managed to get a couple three shot groups of 2-3" at that range. I also ended up doing some 4 and 5 inch groups too!

I went though three 30 round magazines plinking - found one magazine that failed. I didn't take the bad mag apart but there's not enough spring pressure upwards after the first five to ten rounds. The other two magazines were 100% for their 30 round sample.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:16:06 AM EDT
I bought a preban Ruger Mini-14 - stainless steel with folding stock and flash hider - after the "crime bill" passed in 1994 for around $350. I was so disappointed with accuracy and poor availability of quality preban magazines ( i.e factory manufactured) - I think I sold I traded it for a Smith and Wesson Mod. 686. I have never like Ruger's company politics either. Anyway, the Mini-14 was soon forgotten, just like the Norinco MAK 90 and Llama .45 I mistakenly owned at one time.

This is only my personal opinion - but the Mini-14 was more of a learning experience to me - I would much rather have a quality AR-15 any day - I feel it is always worth the extra dollars.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:16:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By acfs:
M-14's are legal in PRK? I remember hearing that someplace. I was thinking of picking one up before they realize they've missed something. *sigh* SKS instead of an AK, M-14 instead of an AR15. I feel like I'm being handed safety scissors. :0



Good analogy!

FWIW, I got lucky. My mini shoots excellent groups and functions flawlessly with the cheap USA mags I got for it. I've had no problems at all but will admit it doesn't get out much. Given an option, with current prices, a post-ban AR would be higher on my list.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:17:56 AM EDT

Another urban rumor. I like my Mini, but this is BS.

No, it is true. Accuracy Rifle Systems claims to supply SEAL teams with accurized versions of the Mini threaded for suppressor use. Take up that argument with them (Tim Lewis) www.mini-14.net
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:36:30 AM EDT
Well, opinions vary on this, but MY experience has been (owning Mini-14's for nearly 20 years) that the factory wood stock is loose and responsible for most of the inaccuracy. Replacing with a good synthetic stock cure this problem. I prefer the Choate Pistol Grip stock. Replacing the wood stock with the Choate results in group size being brought down to the 1.5"-2" MOA range, about like an early AR-15/M16 with the light barrel.

A heavier barrel would help, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a lightweight carbine.

As far as the front sight... there is not much need for wings as the sight blade is very strong, stronger than the tiny post on an AR-15.

Ruger never sold factory 30 round to any but LEO's. They did sell 20's to the general public.

HOWEVER, the PMI, also sold as Federal Ordnance, mags were easily available before the ban for about $13 for blue, $14 for stainless. I bought many at this price. These mags work flawlessly. In all these years I have not had a single misfeed from a PMI/Fed Ord mag in a Mini-14, but I have from Ramline.

I like the Mini-14 for what it is, a lightweight carbine that is very, very dependable and rugged. It takes a minimum of maintanence. With clean burning ammo, it can easily go 1000 rnds or more without cleaning and no malfunctions. I doubt the average AR could do this.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 7:52:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Another urban rumor. I like my Mini, but this is BS.

No, it is true. Accuracy Rifle Systems claims to supply SEAL teams with accurized versions of the Mini threaded for suppressor use. Take up that argument with them (Tim Lewis) www.mini-14.net

I saw no reference to SEAL teams. I did see SALES PITCHES. Still say Urban Legend. I like my Mini, but still say this is BS.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 8:21:53 AM EDT
I checked into a Mini-14 a while back. Went to the local gun shop and talked to the owner for a while, finally settled on a M17s from Bushmaster, the little bullpup model. I've never taken it to the range and checked its accuracy, but I have taken it out plinking and have been highly impressed with it. It hits what I point it at and it's been 100% reliable with the 1000 or so rounds I've put through it. I know it's not a popular little gun but I've been quite happy with it.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 9:56:36 AM EDT

I saw no reference to SEAL teams. I did see SALES PITCHES. Still say Urban Legend. I like my Mini, but still say this is BS.

Gee LARRYG, did you happen to click on the article on the right? Reference right there my man. You might also think about actually asking ARS. They'll provide references if you like.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 11:42:58 AM EDT

In fact, I believe the Navy's elite SEAL team SIX had the stainless steel version on hand at one time
is not proof of anything. Besides, I can't see SEAL teams using anything in stainless steel as it would be very shiney, which would defeat their clandestine methods of operation.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 12:36:14 PM EDT
Disprove it. Later.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 2:13:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2001 2:06:06 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Disprove it. Later.

Is that what it comes down to? When all your "facts" are dismissed, you say "disprove it". I never made the claim, so I don't have to disprove it. The one who makes the claim must prove it. I like my Mini. It is reliable and rugged and will fire any ammo I put in it. I have never had a malfunction, but it is not a military grade rifle and never will be.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 4:06:14 PM EDT

No, it is true. Accuracy Rifle Systems claims to supply SEAL teams with accurized versions of the Mini threaded for suppressor use.


I can claim to have a 12" Johnson. That doesn't make it true.

"Remember. it's not a lie, if you believe it."
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 4:58:27 PM EDT
I seen Navy Seal team mini14's them with my own eye's unfortunatley i should have taken a pic but never thought to.
but time will tell in the end im not worried a pic will show up somewhere on the net.
and yes they were stainless models but were painted desert camo.
those guys can use anything they want,still some of'em carry revolver's as sidearms.they brought a shit load of weapon's MP-5's,AK's,M-14's,Mini-14's,HK-mark23's,S&W Revolver's,some personaly owned glock's,and M-4's.
These guy's have a credit card from the navy and can buy anything they want.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:09:10 PM EDT

Is that what it comes down to? When all your "facts" are dismissed, you say "disprove it". I never made the claim, so I don't have to disprove it. The one who makes the claim must prove it.

Gee LARRYG, I showed my source. Can you disprove it? Call ARS for references, they'll give them. With all of the furor over those who make fake claims involving SEAL teams, logic would dictate if the guy is lying he'd have been exposed by now. Guess what? It must have some truth to it because it's repeated over and over by various writers. I guess it's just all some conspiracy and everyone's lying and you're the only one who's clever enough to see through it. Call ARS and get some references my man and disprove it.
Link Posted: 12/1/2001 5:26:27 PM EDT
1. So what if SEALS do use it? What, exactly, are we supposed to draw from that? Do you also use the same toilet paper as the SEALS?

2. Tons of stuff gets purchased in small numbers (or even donated by the manufacturer) for testing and evaluation. Look at the incredible number of "official" SEAL knives, watches, hand-to-hand combat courses, etc. If even one SEAL ever carried an item for 15 minutes on a training exercise, the manufacturer of that item will proclaim for ever that his item is the one and only "as used by the Navy SEALS."

If it makes you feel better in some way to believe that the Navy SEALS use shitty Mini-14's, it is certainly no skin of my ass. Be aware though, that the only documented (para)military use of the Ruger design that I've ever seen was that some were purchased by Central and South American governments. Virtually all ended up in the hands of police and paramilitary in those countries. Perhaps when you go to the range, instead of imagining yourself as a SEAL team member, as you fling lead downrange from you Mini, you should be fantasizing that you are a member of a Death Squad executing political dissidents.
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