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Posted: 11/3/2001 4:56:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 5:14:58 PM EDT by KC-130 FLT ENG]
I've been out of the shooting loop for a few months (family, work, school... you know the deal). I now have some time to devote to some serious shooting & I want to delve into riflecraft.

My question is: which of the readily available rifles on the market is "The Rifleman's Rifle"?

I've narrowed it down to (in no particular order):

M1 Garand

FAL

M1A

AR-15 in A2 20" HBAR configuration

I spent the decade of the '80s in the USMC so I am familiar w/the A1 & A2 rifles and currently plink w/a Bushy Shorty AK.

I'm not interested in a large magazine capacity, optics or any of the gee whiz bells and whistles that are available. I want to use iron sights and put rounds on target out to 300 yards (furthest realistic distance that I can find to shoot). Competitive shooting isn't really in mind right now, but I'm not going to rule it out on down the road.

Also, where can I get a rifle data book like the ones used in the Corps?

So let's get some opinions...

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:02:02 PM EDT
I gotta go with the M1A on this one.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:56:54 PM EDT
Two for the M1A, unless you're short on cash, then it's the M1.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:12:51 PM EDT
I'd say either the M1A or AR15. The AR15 is finally getting the respect it deserves in the competitive shooting circles and therefore, ought to be considered a "rifleman's" rifle if outfitted correctly rather than a high dollar plinker. The data book can be had at www.sinclairintl.com.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:19:06 PM EDT
Check the Equipment exchange for the Data book (under Accessories) I think I saw someone selling them there.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:20:10 PM EDT
All the weapons you named would be fine.
The thing is you could ask 50 people and you would end up with 50 guns,you need to shoot each rifle and see for your self.

I would say the AR-15/M-16 but righ now I'm the only one,the other like the M-14.

It's a great gun and so is the AR,in the end you will need to try out the guns and see.

As for help from us,looks like your on the right track.

Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:38:55 PM EDT
If not the AR I would go with the FAL because of the price factor. IMO
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:50:16 PM EDT
M1A...knock down power...iron sites (best there is)..improved version of the M1 ..uses detachable mags...get a receiver from a Springfield Armory dealer send it off to be built into a rack grade weapon using USGI parts (chrome line barrel)...do it soon...get spare parts when you have the weapon built...consider the laminated or Mcmillian stock..my .02
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 8:57:35 PM EDT
WELCOME
HUNTER FROM ARGENTINA
OUT.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:34:56 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies so far. I have been an admirer of the M1A for years. But I have read that the maintenance to keep them in top shooting shape is much more than the AR system. Is this fact or rumor?

I"m leaning toward the AR in the 20" w/A2 sights. It would be only a matter of an upper swap & I've got a butt full of 20 & 30 rd mags.

However the M1 Garand is just so cool...
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:59:43 AM EDT
If you think the Garand is "cool", and you have not ruled out competition, you might want to consider getting one from the CMP. The first step is finding a CMP affiliated club, then shooting a CMP registered match(most clubs will also have a gun they can loan you), and send the appropriate paper work into the CMP. I think the going rate for a rack grade Garand from the CMP is around $500; about the cost of a quality upper for AR. Just a thought, and maybe a little useful info. Shoot'em Up!!!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:00:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 5:54:43 AM EDT by OSA]
I personally like the AR. I do have a FAL and M1 Garand. The M14/M1A is soon to come. Start out with a rack grade rifle and improve it as you progress.



I want to use iron sights and put rounds on target out to 300 yards hope.


The AR15 does well at this range


I'm not interested in a large magazine capacity, optics or any of the gee whiz bells and whistles that are available


Don't leave out bolt guns. IMHO new Savages are the best deal out there for getting the most for your money.


Check out some good articles on Fred's site

www.fredsm14stocks.com/articles.asp

OSA

(edited to fix link)
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:06:45 AM EDT
Remington 700PSS in .308, Palma sights. If you want to get more expensive, 40X. Accept no substitute.

shooter
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:09:31 AM EDT
An AR as currently built by a competent 'smith will outshoot a M1A or Garand. Virtually all current champions and record holders shoot AR's of some description; from service rifle to match rifle to high power to IPSC.

That being said they're only making holes in paper. If your plans include hunting then the M1A or Garand would be a better choice.

AR's are also somewhat less expensive to rework initially and require less maintenance to to keep their edge. My experience is there are LOTS more AR parts out there.

Your being former USMC I would understand a preference for an M1A. Both rifles will do the job. Just build one and enjoy.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:44:18 PM EDT
All should be great out to 300 yds. You probably won't see many FALs at DCM matches though.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:51:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 1:47:02 PM EDT by LotBoy]
I would go with the Garand. Get the M333 from IAI. www.israelarms.com/flash/iai.html
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:55:37 PM EDT
I am just now considering competition myself. Also former Marine. I opted for a pre-ban AR-15A2 20" HB. Only reason I chose it over the M1A was that I had more experience with it. Was gonna add an M1A next summer, but they shut off my friggin overtime (bastards). I am happy with my AR, but still drool over the M1A. You would be happy with either I would think. And yes M1 Garands are soooooo cool.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:56:55 PM EDT
I think the M1 or the M1A are your best choices, based on your description of what you are looking for.
I own a 20" Colt HBAR AR-15, my son owns a very high grade Garand and a equally sharp companion M1A Scout. My HBAR is very accurate out to 300m...but in my case only because I mounted a Trijicon compact 3x24 ACOG on it. Otherwise I'm too blind to hit a damn thing at that range!
My kid is deadly accurate out to 300yds with his big bore rifles with their iron sights. When we shoot at most rifle matches here, he is usually the only one shooting a dinosaur...most of the rest of us shoot .223cal 'poodle poppers'.
Either one is a fine choice, but in my humble estimation, the Garand is the finest shooting rifle ever made...followed closely by the M1A. Don't get me wrong, I prefer my AR...but those other cannons are real mens' rifles.
BTW, I believe that the favored rifle of the SEALS now is the match grade synthetic stock M1A, with iron sights. They use a wide range of weapons, but for just rifles, I think its the .308 M1A.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:04:01 PM EDT
Personally, I`d go with the bushy varmint ........gives you a chance to play with different loads/rounds....as well as the 24inch bbl accuracy......
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:08:23 PM EDT
Okay.

The "Rifleman's Rifle" is the Winchester Model 94. Any other is a pretender to the throne.

Of the rifles you mentioned, the one I've heard referred to as a "Rifleman's Rifle" is the M14 (M14). The technology of the LBR has passed the M1A, but a .30 is still more satisfying somehow than a .223.

Now if you put an AR-10 or SR=25 on the list, and it was available with wood furniture, then my answer would be something else again.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:11:18 PM EDT
1st. M1A
2nd. M1
3rd. FAL

Libertas an Mortis!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:02:01 PM EDT
M1A

Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:41:37 PM EDT
Georgia precision was selling the data books you asked about.
I put in a good word for M1A as far as 300yd open sites.
Cheaper option would be M1
NM
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:38:26 PM EDT
Yes, AR10! Accuracy and maintenance requirements of an AR (very little) and the power of an M14. M14s take more maintenance to keep shooting.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:45:31 PM EDT
I say, Get them all! I did!

Vulcan94
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:50:58 PM EDT
How'bout a Hi-Point 9mm carbine? you didn't even consider it?
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:52:02 PM EDT
Since you already have a Bushmaster shorty for plinking, I see no further need to get another upper unless you want to make a NM rig out of your AR. Which ain't a bad thing!

As of right now, a CMP Garand has the most bang for the buck. You won't need to shoot any matches either. Just join a CMP affiliated club, produce a copy of your DD-214, fill out the paperwork, and pay the money. The best part about getting an M1 is owning a unique part of American history. They are the Real McCoy. Everything else is a compromise to political correctness. Get one or two now before they are gone! I used to take my young Devil Dogs out to the range to shoot my M1. I also reminded them that the crossed rifles on their chevrons were in fact M1 Garands.

There is absolutly nothing wrong with any of your choices. All of them are more then capable of suiting your needs. The M1A is a damn fine rifle with a bit more flexibility and refinement then it's Sire. The FAL could use a little better rear sight when compared to the others on your list, but is still quite well suited for a battle rifle. Also, the FAL would be unwelcome at a CMP/DCM match.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:57:11 PM EDT
Sancho

ROTFLMAO!!!!


Vulcan94
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:03:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Garmentless:
Yes, AR10! Accuracy and maintenance requirements of an AR (very little) and the power of an M14. M14s take more maintenance to keep shooting.



Huh???


A M-1A requires much less up keep than any AR series weapon I have ever seen. Keep the chamber clean and the grease where its needed and you are good to go.

My M1A has over 5000 rounds through it and has been completly broken down maybe 5-6 times, and didn't even need it then.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 7:44:50 PM EDT

M1 Garand or a M1A, but the Garand is the Mack Daddy.

Link Posted: 11/4/2001 10:27:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 10:27:03 PM EDT by Bostonterrier97]
For Range work. An AR10 that has been to the gun smith.

For Service Rifle Competitions: AR15 (good for punching holes in paper)

For a Combat with a MAXIMUM 300 yard range and MAXIMUM reliability: Valmet or Galil.

For Combat with greater degree of accuracy than either the Valmet or Galil but less reliability: Sig 550 is good. (same distances as the Valmet and Galil).

For Combat with greatest flexibility for shooting through cover, ranges (long, mid, short) and still fairly reliable: either an M1A or an M1 Garand.

For Absolute Accuracy: A Custom Bolt Action Rifle built on a Hall Action.
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