Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/28/2001 4:44:19 PM EDT
Hey guys,
I really want a bolt rifle, for long range paper punching, and some deer hunting. I was thinking about the LTR in .308, with a Springfield Armormy .308 Calibrated scope. Why should I choose this, other than it would look badass, over some other bolt gun? Make up my mind for me! ;-) Thanks!

-Jared
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 5:30:11 PM EDT
Well my dad's will do half inch groups at 200yrds

I would get a Leupold over the SA scope though

He's got a 4.5-14x40mm LRT Leupold on his LTR

I thought that was overkill but works great.

You could get a 3.5-10x40mm with M1 or M3 turrets
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:56:57 AM EDT
No complaints here. Bought mine from Costa Arms in the Exchange forum. Brought her out to her first long range competition (tactical division) and she performed splendidly. BUY IT!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:17:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 3:12:59 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
If you really want a consistent Long Range 308 you will need to get yourself a custom barrel (Krieger) mated to that Rem 700 action. The stock twist rate on off the shelf guns lack the twist rate for consistency out past 500 yards, where the heavier 175 grain bullets excel.

Mike

PS. Ditto on the Leupold for scope choice, more long range shooters shoot the Vari-X IIIs or Mark IVs than any other brand.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 4:13:22 AM EDT
Well...my LTR will shoot consistent groups at 1000yds with 175gr GM308M2.

Of course that's the ammunition the LTR was designed for, and it works.

Mine has the factory barrel and it's not an R5 variant. I'd LOVE to have a Krieger barrel but til then that little LTR just plain Shoots.

Premier Reticles worked the MkIV M1-16x to make the adjustments audible and easier. That glass is a good match for the LTR.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:00:23 AM EDT
Arock, not familar w/ the LTR, can't find it on the Rem site. What does LTR stand for? and have they tighten the twist rate on those rifles?

Your post seems to indicate a change from the 308 Rem 700s I know about, help me out por-favor.

Thanks
Mike
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:04:17 AM EDT
If firearms laws continue,1 day they'll be outlawed.....
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:42:27 AM EDT
mr. wilson,
LTR = Light Tactical Rifle
See if the rem. site has a Police section, if so that is where they would have the LTR's and PSS's.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:50:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 5:44:37 AM EDT by Ybbeat]
www.remingtonle.com/
Remington Law Enforcement web site.

Ybbeat
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:52:13 AM EDT
I thought the Light Tactical Rifle was designed to be a LE sniper choice. I have been told most sniper situatuions tend to be less than 200yds. and most even less than 100yds. Given the short barrel I think you will lose some velocity. I don't think this rifle was designed to be a long range rifle. I have heard good things about them and they are accurate (OKAY...they look cool too). I think this rifle would be a great deer gun especially if your range gets out there a bit, say 300yds. But if you are looking for a true long range gun you may want a little more barrel length.

Ditto on the Leopold scope.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:36:56 AM EDT
What is an "R5" variant?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:51:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 7:53:51 AM EDT by Arock]
pcgod, you're right about the LTR being designed as a LE rifle. It's the last version of the justly famous PSS (Police Sniper Series) rifles.

The original version PSS rifles have 26 inch solid bull barrels and a heavy palmswell stock (H-S or McMillan - I don't remember) and weigh about 10 pounds.

The LTR's have 20 inch heavy fluted barrels, lighter H-S stocks with no palmswell and weigh about 8.5 pounds.

About muzzle velocity...earlier this year one of the LE Firearms magazines took a .308 chambered rifle with a 26" barrel and proceeded make sequential one inch cuts off the barrel, measuring muzzle velocity each time. They went down to 16" if memory serves. What they found was that MV was not substantially effected til the length was reduced under 20 inches. I remember the loss as being less than 50 ft/sec at 20 inches. Almost within the Standard Deviation for 26 inches. So maybe Remington did their homework.

Word of mouth from several sources says the LTR was designed from the get-go optimised for Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition. At 1000yds, 168gr GM308M1 is not stable for me. The 168gr bullet with a MV 0f 2550 ft/sec goes transonic around 900yds. I get some keyholing. GM308M2 on the other hand is stable at 1000yds. The 175gr bullet with an identical 2550 MV has been stable to 1200yds for me.

And you're right about the LTR being a great deer/antelope rifle. If my family had to live off the land for a while, the LTR will go with us. It's just a real light, handy, sturdy little rifle.

And sltfshr...the R5 Variant is a LTR with a tighter match chamber. Probably has hand-selected parts. They were supposedly done for some Federal boys but a small quantity made it to the commercial market.

(edited for content)
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 4:02:37 PM EDT
Thanks for the detailed information guys.
A few more questions... Why should I justify the Remington over say a Ruger, or a Savage? Or something else. I love the look of the LTR, and if its a shooter, ( I am sure it shoots way better than I can) I'm in for one...

As far as scopes go, Why the Leupold over the SA? I really like the idea of the mildot system, and like the Bullet Drop Compensator even more. Anyone have expierence with these? Should I just get the regular mil-dot, or something different? Whats the price on some of these Leupolds mentioned? Thats about it for now.. Thanks for all the help!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 4:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 4:08:48 PM EDT by M4Madness]

Originally Posted By Arock:
About muzzle velocity...earlier this year one of the LE Firearms magazines took a .308 chambered rifle with a 26" barrel and proceeded make sequential one inch cuts off the barrel, measuring muzzle velocity each time. They went down to 16" if memory serves. What they found was that MV was not substantially effected til the length was reduced under 20 inches. I remember the loss as being less than 50 ft/sec at 20 inches.



Yeah, my cousin is a big fan of the .308 in short barrels. He has a T/C Encore with a .308 pistol barrel. He chose that caliber because he said it was the most resistant caliber to velocity loss when the barrel length is shortened. Some calibers lose a lot of velocity as the barrel length gets shorter, but the .308 loses very little.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 4:53:58 PM EDT
Griz...I personally like the Remington barrel and action. The H-S stock is a premium part too (aluminum pillar bedded from the factory). The Remington trigger is good but I installed a Shilen set to 2.25 pounds.

Of your two other options the Savage appeals to me more. Savage has a "Tactical" version that shoots very well out of the box. I don't care for the factory stock, but there are aftermarket options available. You'd probably want to change the trigger assembly too. Rugers have not established a reputation for accuracy or reliability.

And as far as scopes I look to see what the professionals use. And by far most of them use Leupolds. MkIV's have been the standard of professional riflemen for twenty years. The MkIV M1-16x mounted on my LTR cost more than the rifle, but that's common. The guys who use US Optics sometimes spend 2-3x more than the rifle. I also shoot a .50BMG rifle and the only reliable scopes we've found are Leupold and NightForce NXS. Leupold makes a wide variety of ruggedized optics and you can get Leupolds customized to your rifle from Premier Reticles. A MkIV will run $1200 and Long Range Tacticals are in the $850 range.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:10:34 PM EDT
5R is actually a barrel that has five groves as oppossed to the standard 6 in remingtons rifles. I believe they are cut rifled instead of button rifled also but im not sure since i dont know rem. source for thier 5R blanks. They are know two have better accuracy, and less fowling than standerd barrels. I doubt that you can even get the pss with a 5R unless you order from the custom shop$$$$, i could be wrong let me know if you find out.
Top Top