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Posted: 10/28/2001 12:06:56 PM EDT
That's right, the HS2000 is GONE baby. HSArms apparantly lost their contract with IM Metals out of Croatia, so they are no longer importing in the HS2000.

BUT, from what I hear, Springfield Armory is making a pistol now called the XD - XtremeDuty. For about $450, it's supposed to be "their answer to the Glock". My boys over at www.hs2000talk.com saw this pistol, noticed how stunningly it looked like the HS, called them, and CONFIRMED from S.A. themselves that this is indeed the HS200 - with a new name! Apparantly, the long promised .40 and .357 versions are coming out in a few short months (finally).

My questions are as follows - First, WhAT is the Springfield Armory website? (I need to check this out). Do you think that an over $100 increase over the HS2000 will stagger sales of this handgun, or is this a matter of better advertising by a bigger name in guns, along with a "It's $100 bucks less than a Glock!" campaign that they're sure to produce? I'm sure people trust Springfield more than they would some random place in Croatia, even though I believe IM is still producing the same pistol (I'll need to check the website to verify, however).

What do you guys think about this?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:10:07 PM EDT


Since when is $450, $100 less then a Glock. I just bough a NIB G17 for $450 at the last show. If you want a Glock then buy a Glock.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:12:02 PM EDT
Glcok prices depend on where you are located.
Im in central Cali and Glock prices hover around 600-650 consistantly at all the gun shops here.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:16:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:


Since when is $450, $100 less then a Glock. I just bough a NIB G17 for $450 at the last show. If you want a Glock then buy a Glock.



That's a damn low price. Glocks can be anywhere from $450 - $650, depends on natinoal location, dealer, time of year, what the seller ate for breakfast...you get the idea.

And NO, I DON'T want a Glock. The HS2000 is IMHO a far superior pistol, and I would cringe to see my beloved HS not ever being produced again. Like Lays chips, you can't have just one.

Still, does anybody know S.Armory's website so i can check this out myself?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:23:30 PM EDT
Everybody's trying to copy the best. Just by the real thing. You will be alot happier in the long run.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:24:24 PM EDT
I think thier site is just down for some reason. I was checking out the new XD over on their site the other day and it is obviously the HS2000. They don't come out and say it directly but they word it in such a way that they admit they only put their name on it.

I have only heard good things about the HS2000, but Jewbroni, you are the first I've heard say that you think it is far superior than a Glock. What is your reasoning for such a strong statement? (truely curious, not giving you a hard time)
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2001 12:29:59 PM EDT by Jewbroni]

Originally Posted By CounterStrike:

I have only heard good things about the HS2000, but Jewbroni, you are the first I've heard say that you think it is far superior than a Glock. What is your reasoning for such a strong statement? (truely curious, not giving you a hard time)



If it's not superior, it's dead-on with it, that's for sure. Price aside, the HS is put through the same tests as the Glock, can fire underwater, has similar/better grouping than the G19, the trigger pull is a tiny bit lighter and as static as the Glock, and the beavertail safety provides an extra redundant block on the weapon, including all of the firing pin/trigger safety features of the Glock. And let's not forget that many HS owners (including myself) claim they like the grip of their weapon better than the bulky Glocks, and most all of them have wives/girlfriends who do better with the HS's thinner grip because of this reason. Personally, I will never buy a Glock for that reason alone - discomfort in my hands.

The ONLY thing that I will say in Glock's favor is its pure inability to rust. The HS2000's slide release is NOT rust-proof, nor is the beavertail if I remember correctly. Other than that, it just barely necks out the Glock.

Oh yes, and another thing the HS2000 lacks is a performance reputation. Because it's so new, there will always be doubts to its reliability, durability, and accuracy. Hopefully however, this will change when Springfield gets their XD out on the market - IM Metals made a DAMN FINE firearm.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:42:16 PM EDT
This is the link I had but it don't work now ?

www.springfield-armory.com
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 3:12:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CounterStrike:
I have only heard good things about the HS2000, but Jewbroni, you are the first I've heard say that you think it is far superior than a Glock. What is your reasoning for such a strong statement? (truely curious, not giving you a hard time)


He may be the first you've ever heard to say that, be he isn't the first to say it. I've read many reviews and talked with many HS2000 owners who find it to be much better than the Glock as far as design goes. Only the test of time will prove if it's true.

USPC40

-------------------------------------------------
NRA Life Member - www.nra.org
GOA Life Member - www.gunowners.org
SAF Member - www.saf.org
SAS Supporter - www.sas-aim.org

Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:13:05 PM EDT
I had a Glock19 and got rid of it because my HS2000 was better in every way.

It is a better design, has a better trigger, better features, and 18 round hicaps ar $30 as opposed to almsot $100(or more) for the Glock.

Nothing against Glock, but my HS2000 did everything my Glock did only better, so I ditched the G19... Never once regretted it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:51:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fl3gun:
This is the link I had but it don't work now ?

www.springfield-armory.com



That link was correct as of about 3 days ago...maybe their server went down?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:28:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 8:22:45 AM EDT by cmymud]


Works now
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 8:36:07 AM EDT
I think I'm gonna have to get me one of those!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:44:37 AM EDT
Thanks for the info! Now I have a good excuse to buy one...

"But honey, they're not importing them anymore so I better get one NOW before the price goes up!"

I'm sure she'll understand. She wants me to teach her how to shoot so maybe this is a golden opportunity.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:16:07 AM EDT
Hey guys, we'll see what kind of product they can put out in the .40 and 357. It's going to be harder to keep a slimline grip and still hold 10 in the .40 and 357. Will the barrels be exchangeable like the SIG Pro? It's hard to beat this gun gentlemen. And as far as firepower, you can't touch my Glock 20 with 15+1 rounds of 600+ ft. lbs. of energy with every round!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:27:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:


Since when is $450, $100 less then a Glock. I just bough a NIB G17 for $450 at the last show. If you want a Glock then buy a Glock.



Thats just the thing,it's not a Glock it's much better.

They just use the name Glock to push it so people can ID with it cuz it's new.
Now that SA makes them you don't have to push a totaly new name on to the market.
I feel they nay be ruff times at hand for Glock.

Glock was the first GOOD toy gun but they just stoped, I gess they did not know you don't make it on just one gun.
Colt,SA,Beretta,ect have been here for years and years and Glock should learn from them.
Back when Colt first made the peace maker it was a great gun but if they had never updated it or put out new guns ovr time there would be no Colt today.(or SA,or who ever)
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:33:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By musicman:
And as far as firepower, you can't touch my Glock 20 with 15+1 rounds of 600+ ft. lbs. of energy with every round!



I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with a 9/357/40 HS2000. We all know the ballistics of the 10mm.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:34:13 AM EDT
After looking at the SA web site I can feel a new military side arm test comming on.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:11:52 PM EDT

FYI, the folks at Glocktalk.com did a group buy of the HS2000 when they first came out. Lots of fans of the HS2000 there. At the original price it was a great deal. At the newer price it starts facing tougher competition.

I think Springfield did a smart thing, the HS2000 is a good design.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:19:26 PM EDT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! [>(]

I leave the board for two days, and I come back to this? Aggg. I feel crushed.

Hey, wait a minute....

So I can soon get the 40/357sig version, albeit for a bit more (as opposed to not at all)....

My HS-2000 might just end up as a collector's piece some day (and it's the somewhat rarer 2nd Gen variant)....

And this might generate more public interest in this great firearm....

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:22:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By musicman:
Hey guys, we'll see what kind of product they can put out in the .40 and 357. It's going to be harder to keep a slimline grip and still hold 10 in the .40 and 357.



I don't think it will be too hard. Remember that the 9mm version can hold 15 rounds with a hi-cap mag. I don't think 10 rounds of .40 would take up much more room, would it? Of course, I'm waiting for the .45!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:37:07 PM EDT
You will never hear a bad word about the HS2000 from a man who has fired one.

You WILL however, hear claims of them to be inferior to Glocks by those who own Glocks (and have never fired the HS, though they may lie and say they have), and are getting an inferiority complex.

I own 2 Glocks currently- and an HS.
THe HS is a better pistol in many ways.
Trigger, passive safeties, ease of takedown, and sight instalation- not to mention I have a totally verifiable 7K throgh mine without a single hiccup. Add up the fact that it is less expensive than the Glock, well, Glock guys get desperate when trying to claim the Glock to be better.
Of course, unless HS makes a 10MM that takes 15rd Glock mags, it will never be the best pistol. But as far as 9MM's go, yeah. I like mine much much better than Glocks.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:48:18 PM EDT
Give me a 1911A1 anyday
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 12:57:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

My HS-2000 might just end up as a collector's piece some day (and it's the somewhat rarer 2nd Gen variant)....




I was thinking the same thing yesterday about mine. Of course, I've got a 3rd Gen (the current production model of the "XD"), but still should be a nice piece in the future. You're going to be REALLY glad you grabbed that 2nd Gen - that will be one of the rarest pistols in the world, especially considering how few HS2000's were made.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 2:35:15 PM EDT
I can't figure out all the fuss. My dad bought an HS2000 and bragged about it so I had to shoot it. First of all, it is the MOST UNCOMFORTABLE pistol I ever fired (mostly due to the ridiculous grip safety tab that sticks out too far into the web of your hand. I must admit that it was fairly accurate, but as for the claims that it is more accurate than a Glock, I suppose it would depend on the shooter. Most people brag about the low price tag, but if I only had $400 to spend then I'd take a RUGER any day over an HS. I believe that if it wasn't for the Anti-Glock crowd we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tank-killa:
I believe that if it wasn't for the Anti-Glock crowd we wouldn't even be having this discussion.



Hell, most of the "Anti-Glock" crowd in here OWN Glocks! Whether they use them for a compact carry gun or car gun, the "my Glock is definitately uncomfortable"-types still pack them because they know they're reliable and accurate. Personally, I think the Glock is a damn fine pistol, worth every penny, but I will never buy one because the darn thing is too awkward in my hand. This packs all of the utility of a Glock into a tighter, slimmer, and more easily obtainable ($$$) package.

The HS2000/XD IS the Anti-Glock!
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:20:26 PM EDT
I just picked up a new in box HS2000 at the gunshow last weekend. I traded a 1993 S&W 915 even-steven for it. The 915 was a great gun and hi-cap, but the grip was too wide, and the sights were terrible, and it weighed a lot more.

So, I think I have a gen 2 model, because it has no accessory rail, but has a grooved slide. If that does not describe a gen 2, someone please tell how I can tell which one it is.

So, what happens to my lifetime warranty from HS, will they even still be around now without that gun to sell?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:29:35 PM EDT
Damn, and I was ready to buy one when they got the next shipment in. It sucks that Springfield Armory is going to jack the price up 50% on them. I'll stick with Glock's at that price.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:30:08 PM EDT
Yeah, what is the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd generation? I bought one from a surgeon I know, 200 bucks! The best pistol I have ever owned.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 5:04:29 PM EDT by Jewbroni]

Originally Posted By hmeyne:
So, I think I have a gen 2 model, because it has no accessory rail, but has a grooved slide. If that does not describe a gen 2, someone please tell how I can tell which one it is.



Nope, the Gen2 is just like the Gen3, but without the FRONT slide serrations.
You've got the 1st.


Originally Posted By bobeaser:
Yeah, what is the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd generation? I bought one from a surgeon I know, 200 bucks! The best pistol I have ever owned.


GEN 1
-Original Model


GEN 2
-Deeper rear slide serrations
-Tac-rail added
-Textured grip added


GEN 3
-Lengthened rear slide serrations
-Added front slide serrations
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 12:29:20 AM EDT


Generation 4?????????????

I guess I'll be getting the Springfield Armory version of the HS2000 now. I like the fact that it will have a lifetime warranty from Springfield.

USPC40

-------------------------------------------------
NRA Life Member - www.nra.org
GOA Life Member - www.gunowners.org
SAF Member - www.saf.org
SAS Supporter - www.sas-aim.org

Link Posted: 10/30/2001 2:45:32 AM EDT
It sucks that Springfield Armory is going to jack the price up 50% on them. I'll stick with Glock's at that price.

Why? Even at the higher price, the HS is still a better product and a better deal. I have 2 Glock 19s from the early 90s. It has only taken me a week of owning the HS to see that I don't really need the Glocks anymore. You'll probably see me trying to trade them off soon.

And with SA selling the HS now, (which by some reports is shipping next week) the same thing could happen to the HS as did with the 1911 - a strong company to take the gun to its fullest potential market, a strong parts & repair availability, and a huge aftermarket and performance industry. So, it could be good for HS owners.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 3:40:01 AM EDT
Anybody else here have problems with jams on their HS? The one I fired would not feed Wolf 9mm's and one of the cheaper Winchester loads reliably (WinUsa?). That really bothers me about a new gun design because you never know what to expect. I figured if I only had $300 to spend on a weapon I couldn't afford premium ammo neither.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 8:42:16 AM EDT
Oh no!
The filth of
front slide
serrations is spreading.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 9:51:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tank-killa:
Anybody else here have problems with jams on their HS? The one I fired would not feed Wolf 9mm's and one of the cheaper Winchester loads reliably (WinUsa?). That really bothers me about a new gun design because you never know what to expect. I figured if I only had $300 to spend on a weapon I couldn't afford premium ammo neither.



Winchester White Box has been determined to cause occasional FTF's/FTE's with the HS2000, due to the shape of its ejector "lip" on the brass. I personally have not had a hickup within 600 rounds of the stuff, but other people have. The cause was a bad ejector (I believe it was too tight), and "home fixing" of the ejector proved to solve the problem.

As for Wolf 9mm, well...you should know by now to stay away from Wolf altogether, AR15 or not
Otherwise, the gun is up to NATO specs and can handle +P 9mm loads. As for +P+, though, I couldn't tell you
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 7:13:08 PM EDT
I buy my working Glocks for $379.00 with 3 hicaps.

Glock prices vary....
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 8:49:38 PM EDT
Only time can tell whether or not this HS2000 will make it. Hopefully it doesn't go the way P-9 (CZ75 copy), I think that's what it was, which Springfield Armory used to carry in early '90. Don't know what happened to it.

Kinda reminds of Colt 2000, which was advertised that the pistol was so advance it would make all pistols obsolete. However, due to some problems w/ the pistol, it never made through the year 2000.

For me, I will stay w/ Ruger P-95 for around $300. I know the DA pull is very long and Bill Ruger is sometimes not well likes by many. But, at least it works!

For $400 or so, I'll choose a used Glock. Why? Again, the reputation and records have spoken for itself. Besides, both companies have excellent customer services if something went wrong.

A Glock for $379 w/ 3 hi-cap mags? Very good price. I bought an Exec cond G24 w/ 2 hi-cap for $420 this summer, and recently an Exec++ to LNIB G17 w/ 2 hi-cap and 1 low-cap plus hynie sight for $410. The deal is out there, you just have to look for it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 9:16:45 PM EDT
I don't give a crap how much a gun costs,if you want to buy one get what you want.

If I let price pick my guns I would be one of these guys who will sit here and tell you what a great gun an AK is(just save your money boys)
Thats why I have had ARs,H&Ks,FALs,AUGs,ect good stuff but at a price.

So why is everbody b!cthing about the $450.00 price tag? would you buy an H&K? hell yes you would there great guns!
This HS200/XD takes all the very best things about the very best guns and rolls them in to one weapon.
I think the gun should be $1,000 each,you would really save money .
I had to put down over $2,800 for hand guns befor I get to the HS, just start at the end.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 10:48:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Since when is $450, $100 less then a Glock. I just bough a NIB G17 for $450 at the last show. If you want a Glock then buy a Glock.



I think the "$100 Less" is based on MSRP. I have heard of people buying HS2000 pistols for $350 (and under!) new at a gun shop.

Yes, fad guns come and go (Glock, HS9000, etc). New competitors crop up in a popular space. But the original Browning design 1911 pistol shows it's superior design after 90 years!
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 11:16:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2001 11:12:34 AM EDT by Jewbroni]

Originally Posted By Falkov:
Only time can tell whether or not this HS2000 will make it.



I hope you meant "this" as in "this Springfield version", otherwise you're probably living in a cave. The HS2000 has ALREADY made it, and has been claimed to be the best new product in the handgun world that has arrisen over the past 5 years. This lately has been ,and will be, the new standard by which LE, military, and civilian handguns will be judged. You can write that down, quote me, and laminate a printout - in 5 years, you'll see that the HS/XD will be the NEW "Big Name" in polymer pistols, and Glocks will be the ones selling for less than the "new Glock".



For $400 or so, I'll choose a used Glock. Why? Again, the reputation and records have spoken for itself. Besides, both companies have excellent customer services if something went wrong.


An acceptable reason. But don't let this keep you from trying new things. You may just like the IMPROVED Glock after all
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 12:08:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2001 12:06:46 PM EDT by Kevin]
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 3:58:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2001 3:53:49 PM EDT by Jewbroni]

Originally Posted By Kevin:

5 years huh, I'm not slamming your choice of handguns but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath on your above statement. If the HS??? is adopted by 50%+ of law enforcement agencies and SWAT/other tactical units then it will have made it to the big time but it better start doing it quick because I haven't heard of anybody adopting it yet!



Who said it's been apdoted yet? I never did.
It's been out for less than a year, and a no-name company named HS America put out probably 50,000 or so out on the American market - not a large number by any means (this, however, WILL change when Springfield advertises them). But in that short time, it's made its name clear, and a STRONG majority of those who'd never heard of it have bought or felt admirably towards the HS2000 after a simple range test. If you can think of any other pistol created within the past 5 years that could be considered a STANDARD by which others are judged, I'd love to hear it.

As far as the +P+ goes, ask I_Luv_McUzi about both how well it handles the round, and about how reliable the gun is with many thousands of rounds put through it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 5:16:53 PM EDT
I must have a gen1, This might be a tough or dumb question. Which of the 3 gen. guns was produced the least of, or shall I say be worth the most cash. Not like it is a big deal. I will never sell mine. Just curious.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 5:50:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bobeaser:
I must have a gen1, This might be a tough or dumb question. Which of the 3 gen. guns was produced the least of, or shall I say be worth the most cash. Not like it is a big deal. I will never sell mine. Just curious.



The Gen2 was the smallest number produced. There was a quick reformation to the Gen3 after the 2nd was produced.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 8:49:08 PM EDT

Well, if you call a MOR (Mission Operations Center) a "cave" ,then, yes I work and most of the time live in a cave. The place is always dark and freezing w/ NO windows to look outside and we command and control satellites, plan the mission even sleep in there.

Thanks for the invitation to the NEW HS2000. However, I still have a very good memory of the Colt 2000 which I bought when it first came out and it didn't quite perform as it was advertised, praised as it should be. I wish I could be as brave and as confident as you are.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to what has been working before, especially when it's critical or when life depends upon it.

There's a logic somewhere which said "why change if it works?"
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 5:09:02 AM EDT
It's kind of funny after his last post, but Falkov seems to be making the most sense on this thread....must be all that time in the "cave" allows him to contemplate the deeper philosophical aspects of the ultimate handgun. After all, Gaston Glock is a genius.

By the way, did Tommy Lee Jones ever say: "Lose the nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself an HS2000 kid" ? No, I DON'T THINK SO!
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 6:21:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Falkov:

Thanks for the invitation to the NEW HS2000. However, I still have a very good memory of the Colt 2000 which I bought when it first came out and it didn't quite perform as it was advertised, praised as it should be. I wish I could be as brave and as confident as you are.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to what has been working before, especially when it's critical or when life depends upon it.


I'm not disagreeing on you on the Glock, it's a great, reliable, light, accurate weapon - especially if you can find a deal on it. Reputation always has its value.

Of course, there's only one tiny difference between the Colt and the HS. The Colt was supposed to be great, but it was a cheap POS. The HS was supposed to be a cheap POS, but it turned out to be an absolutely awesome pistol for everyone who had the chance to get their hands on it. Many of the Glockphiles on this board have already replied in this post, and confirmed what I just said.

In short: not discounting the Glock at all, but my vote for most impressive choice (albeit the less original one, hehe) is the HS/XD.


Originally Posted By tank-killa:
By the way, did Tommy Lee Jones ever say: "Lose the nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself an HS2000 kid" ? No, I DON'T THINK SO!



Considering the HS2000 hadn't even been in the US yet, I would hope not.
Besides, he was probably talking about Downey Jr's crack pipe
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 7:13:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tank-killa:
By the way, did Tommy Lee Jones ever say: "Lose the nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself an HS2000 kid" ? No, I DON'T THINK SO!


HAHAHA! Nice try, tank-killa, but if I'm going to choose a weapon based on Hollywood movie lines, make mine a M41A Pulse Rifle. No, wait a minute, we're talking about handguns here so in that case make it a cricket... small, concealable, lightweight, and it packs one HELLUVA wallop!
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 7:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2001 7:38:49 AM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
I'll take that ceramic Glock from Die Hard 2. Those damn metal detectors are really crimping my style.
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