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Posted: 10/23/2001 4:49:35 PM EDT
I will soon receive my CHL for Texas. I currently only have one pistol (H&K USP .45ACP). I want a more compact pistol. I am looking at Glock subcompacts and Taurus Millenium series. Any other suggestions out there? I want to keep the price below $525.

Also, what is the consensus on the 357 Sig. I am cosidering the Glock 33.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:19:39 PM EDT
If you go with the sig, it will over penetrate! A .40 is better. the .45 is too much recoil in a carry gun for most people. the .40s&w has only 10-35 foot pounds of energy less. won't go right through unless you hit them in the foot or something. Has just a hair more recoil than a 9mm. go with a glock 27 .40s&w Besides ammo is cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:26:18 PM EDT
Browning Hi-Power, and if possible, get one in .40 as CHUCK6419 recommends. If not, a CZ in .40.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:26:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 5:21:40 PM EDT by mattimeo]
I have a Glock 33, and couldn't love it better. Recoil in the subcompacts is a bit much, due to the light weight of the gun. Won't hurt, mind you, but don't expect match accuracy. As a carry gun, which is what I use mine for, it's great. It rides tight and you'll never notice it's there until you want it. And the fact that it doesn't aim worth a damn is made up for by the situation. If you actually need to draw concealed, you're likely within a 7yd range or so, and have the option of just pointshooting.

Which is where this gun accels. Also, don't be afraid to pick up one or the other if you find a great deal. You can, with minimal cost and gunsmithing, rebarrel a Glock 33 to take .40 S&W. The two even use the same mags.

But do beware, as was mentioned, of the ammo cost. .357sig isn't a hugely popular caliber, hence the fact that good self defense ammo, like GoldDots or anything else runs pretty high up there. This especialy hurts when you consider that you should practice with something close to what you'll carry.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:32:46 PM EDT
Generally speaking, the .357 Sig cartridge is a great round.

The only problem I have with it is it's so damned LOUD.

40MIKE
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:41:49 PM EDT


I like the Sig 226 in 9mm, if you can get Hi-caps for it, aiming under stress is hard if you don't have a bit of training or experience. I say get the biggest caliber you can handle, firing from the smallest rig you can handle.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:43:26 PM EDT
i have a sig 229 in 357 and it is probably the most accurate pistol i own in center fire. my ccw carry of choice is the glock 27, and it is superb for what it is designed for. i would not mind having a glock 33 however. by the way, i believe that there is a .22 kit that fits the glock compacts. anybody have any info?
willy
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:47:34 PM EDT
The .357 SIG round is a KB just waiting to happen. The extremely short neck can easily lead to bullet setback if the round is not crimped perfectly, which is NOT a good thing in such a high pressure round.

I have seen many improperly crimped rounds of different calibers, even with factory ammo, to give me cause for concern with high pressure rounds like .357 SIG and .40 S&W. I'll stick with .45 auto and standard pressure 230gr Hydra-Shoks, thank you very much.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:27:38 PM EDT
I think I am leaning to the Glock 27 (40 S&W).

What type of holster would be best for conceal carry in the heat and humidity of Texas?
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:33:50 PM EDT
You can't go wrong with the Glock 27- it's great. I carry strongside, utilizing a IWB holster. If my shirt must be tucked, then usually a good pocket holster will work. If not, there is always a DeSantis ankle rig, but access sucks. Another option is a belly band or Thunder Wear, but I don't like either one personally.

Make sure you get the +1 extensions (by Peace Grips) for the mags, to make them hold ten rounds and give yourself a little more grip to hold onto.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:56:20 PM EDT
How bout a sig sauer p228 or 229. The 229 is availible in 9mm, 357sig and .40. Or how bout a compact HK? I just purchased a sig 228 (9mm) as my conceal-carry firearm. Granted, none of the pistols above are as small as the sub-compact glocks, but i aint a glock person either. No offense to glock owners....
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:11:48 PM EDT
Hey Bubba, where are you in TX? I have a G33 and I'm up on the North side of Houston. If you want to try it out sometime, I'd be glad to let you. There's nothing worse than buying a gun and finding out that you can stand the way it feels. Or, if you want to come to the next Houston shoot, you can try it there. Let me know.

BTW, I love mine. It used to kinda hurt the web of my hand, but then I put in a Wolff 20# spring and it's perfect now.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:20:13 PM EDT
Glock 27 and Glock 33 are identical except for the barrel. If you buy either, and want the other caliber, go to www.glockmeister.com and pick up a factory Glock barrel. It will drop right in. Even the magazines are interchangeable.

On the topic of improperly crimped 357 sig, I have seen one round myself. It occured in a failure to feed situation. The bullet struck the edge of the feed ramp and jammed the gun. When the weapon was cleared, the bullet was set back into the case a significant distance.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:23:06 PM EDT
I'll see if I can post pics tomorrow of some set-back bullets. They occurred from dropping the slide on the same round about a dozen times.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:34:34 PM EDT
Thanks Brouhaha for the offer. I live in College Station. I beleive my Deputy friend has a 27. I will definately shoot his first.

By the way I appreciate the offer to shoot with you. Likewise I belong to the Brazos Valley Service Rifle Assoc. We shoot at a range near Lake Sommerville on the 1st and 4th Saturdays of each month. Visitors are welcome www.bvsra.org
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:37:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 8:32:13 PM EDT by brouhaha]
You should try to make it to the next shoot. It's only about a 30-45 drive from CS.

Actually, I might be out there on Sun. with a few friends. Let me know.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:42:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 11:37:14 AM EDT by brouhaha]
Here's the set back problem up close.


On the left is a brand new, never chambered .357 Sig with Speer GD bullet. In the middle is a Cor-bon which has been chambered about 10 times. And on the right is a Factory loaded Speer GD which has been chambered about 20 times. It is painted black so I know to never chamber it. I have no clue what the measurements are on that ruler. It just happened to be sitting there, so I added it for a little scale.

Edited to add that every 0.2 on that ruler = 1"
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:53:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CHUCK6419:
If you go with the sig, it will over penetrate!



According to an officer I spoke with a while ago, this is why Richmond Police switched TO the .357 SigPro. I have no idea how the selection process went. I would be interested to know what the other considerations were, and how they arrived at their final decision.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:21:59 PM EDT
I am very pleased with my G33. As far as over-penetration, it has very similar ballistics to .357 magnum load, which was highly regarded by police for years. I have my doubts that it is a poor performer.

Haven't yet seen the setback problem with my ammo/gun. I use Speer Gold Dots for carry and routinely chamber and clear the gun with no problems so far.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:32:12 PM EDT
I have a G27 and I love it. The pistol is very accurate, and I have no complaints after I added Pearce Grip +1 adapters to the magazines. Out of my two pistols, I enjoy shooting it more than my SW99. Ammo is relatively cheap and I can put hundreds of rounds through it with no problems and very little money.

I was tempted to buy a .357Sig barrel for my G27 at the last gun show, but decided to pick up a case of ammo for it instead. I still may do so, but the bullet setback issue that was just pointed out makes me a bit nervous.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:28:14 PM EDT
I live up the road in Austin. I carry either a G27 or a Para Ord. P12 LDA (.45) in Blade-Tech IWB rigs. Both conceal very well but the P12 is a little heavier. I agree with the other folks who suggested Pierce extensions on the G27 mags.
At some time I'll probably get a .357 bbl for the Glock just to try it out. Even though it's more expensive I'd opt for the Glock over the Taurus. I really like their wheelguns but have heard conflicting reports on the semi autos.
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 4:17:02 PM EDT
The marginal increase in velocity for the .357SIG over the .40 just doesn't convince me to want one. I worry about the cost of ammo, as well as the possible safety risks. I'll stick with my Glock 27- for now, and maybe get a .357sig bbl when I feel like it.
Night sights, the +1 extension, and the uncle mike's rubber grip sleeve should come standard on the 27- they are wonderful additions, making the perfect (for me, anyway) concealed carry weapon.
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 9:17:43 PM EDT
The .357 Sig is no more likely to overpenetrate a human torso than a .40 or .45, with factory hollowpoints (the exception being Hornady XTP, but those will overpenetrate in almost every caliber). Bullet setback can cause a kaboom in any caliber, including .45 ACP. Just keep an eye on the round in the chamber and replace it every so often. .357 Sig is a good round, but I don't think it offers any real advantages over the .40. In a G27 I'd go with a light bullet like the Cor-bon 135-grain load. I personally don't like the subcompact Glocks, they're too small to get a good grip on, but still really chunky. I'd rather carry a full-size 1911, which is much flatter and conceals better for me.
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