Robinson XCR - Page 4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Robinson XCR (Page 4 of 6)

Posted: 2/13/2012 4:47:14 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Welcome back Primorsky.

We have all greatly missed your wonderful insights into the superiority of Russian military technology.

Posted: 2/13/2012 5:27:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Took some new shooters out last fall. We let them shoot a bunch of firearms. Three had never fired an AK and wanted to. Two of them fired 5-10 rounds and set it down. Didn't like it one bit. Without telling them, I gave them my XCR chambered in 7.62x39. They had no problems with the XCR. Neither could believe they were the same rounds.

I'd be interested to hear your theory on what the AK offers over the XCR.

Posted: 2/13/2012 9:04:47 PM EDT

[#3]

I like the xcr, I shouldnt call it retarded.. I just dont really get it when people start saying stuff like because it has rail, safety, and a bolt catch it's a futuristic ray gun and the ak is now a old antique peice of crap. That goes for all these new guns. I like them and I like ar's and ak's too.
Im sure anyone of us could write pages comparing an ak to a xcr or any rifle so im not even gonna go there. I do feel that russian arms have a robust nature that none of these rifles possess except the m14 and like it or not that matters, and the xcr just doesnt got it. How important that is, is up to you. To me I like it more than a fast safety and a bolt catch. So yea I love mother russia for that wonderfull gem, and vodka, girls, etc.

Posted: 2/13/2012 10:34:12 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I just dont really get it when people start saying stuff like because it has rail, safety, and a bolt catch it's a futuristic ray gun and the ak is now a old antique peice of crap.

Neither do I.

That the M1 rifle is suitable only for use a bumper jack handle ( yes it has been said) and that manually operated arms are no longer relevant ( that has been said) are ludicrous as well.

To better understand the XCR my advice would be get some trigger time on one and then take it apart. All the way apart.
Then take a good critical look at the pieces, their design, their function and their fabrication. It is an eye opener.

To tear one down to the last piece and build it back up you will need the following:
a folding hex key set,
a crescent wrench,
a small punch or nail.
That's it. That is all the tools you will need. No special tools, no jigs, no fixtures, not even a torque wrench.

You can get those simple hand tools at virtually every hardware, auto parts, department and home improvement store in the world.
One could raid the neighbors tool box or shed in a pinch.

There are no specialty fasteners or rivets used in the XCR. The few screws and pins that are used are common industrial standard hardware, which are also available just about everywhere as well.

Because both the XCR to the AK feature long stroke pistons and fixed ejector many folks automatically compare the two and assume the former is based on the latter. I do not believe that comparison to be very accurate and it does neither platform due justice IMHO.

Posted: 2/14/2012 3:34:05 AM EDT

[#5]

I really like my XCR.

Had it since 08,seems too get the most range time of any rifle I have any more.
With the exception of the 1022.

Posted: 2/14/2012 8:32:47 AM EDT

[#6]

A took a couple photos comparing the AR and XCR bolts and carriers, just for anyone who's interested. The AR was 5.45x39.

Posted: 2/14/2012 10:09:38 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Have you had hands on time with an AK12? I would be interested in a side by side comparison of an XCR and an AK12

Posted: 2/14/2012 11:17:18 AM EDT

[#8]

Unless the AK12 features include end user changeable barrels/caliber conversions I think a side by side comparison of the ACR/SCAR/XCR would be more relevant.

If not then perhaps a comparison along the lines of SIG's latest/etc. would be more equitable.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In the pics above we see a few interesting things about the XCR's design.

Pic#1 shows generous amounts of locking lug bearing surface.

Pic#2 shows copious amounts of locking lug shear area.

Pic#3 shows how the bolts design allows the magazine to ride higher in the receiver thus putting the feed lips closer to bore center line than any other rifle I am aware of and affords virtually straight in feeding of cartridges.

It also shows the carrier separated from the op-rod. I believe this to be a " vibration break point" I.E. operation induced vibrations possibly present in the op-rod would be primarily contained and mitigated there rather than be transmitted to the rest of the mechanism if it were a one piece instead of two piece affair.

Posted: 2/14/2012 11:44:26 AM EDT

[#9]

Couple more pictures:

Posted: 2/14/2012 12:08:29 PM EDT

[#10]

Anyone have the 5.45 conversion kit or new stock yet?

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:04:34 PM EDT

[#11]

Anyone know if they plan to or have started making a .300 aac blackout barrel for the xcr?

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:27:27 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Anyone know if they plan to or have started making a .300 aac blackout barrel for the xcr?

I'd buy a 10" .300 blk barrel

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:30:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Anyone know if they plan to or have started making a .300 aac blackout barrel for the xcr?

They're still testing a few different lengths. I believe the 9" and some other lengths are already in production.

Posted: 2/14/2012 3:28:30 PM EDT

[#14]

Nice that makes me want it even more, over an ak, having different cals is super nice, love the .223 and then going to .300blk!

Posted: 2/14/2012 6:22:13 PM EDT

[#15]

There is an XCR forum on the web. Some folks there have posted about their experiences with 5.45,6.8SPC, 7.62x39, pistols SBR's etc.

The .300-221 AKA 300 Whisper ,AKA .300 WTF is available in the PDW and pistol formats.

My take on an XCR in .300 AAC Black Out is if it happens be prepared for a long wait.

(1) R.A. is a small company that has a finite amount of time,money and production capacity.
(2) They recently released the XCR-M .308 and the new FAST stock and those are hot ticket items.
(3) Good enough isn't good enough for them. They would rather make you wait a long,long time for a thing that is right and good out of the box than release one that is less than up to expectations. The FAST stock and the XCR-M are prime examples of continuous R&D and re refinement (and the public waiting) till things were right.

Long waits are very frustrating in today's day and age of right now and instant availability.

Posted: 2/14/2012 8:52:35 PM EDT

[#16]

The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

Posted: 2/15/2012 4:16:34 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Posted: 2/15/2012 6:24:00 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi...

The AK-12 sounds like an awesome rifle, really a nice modern evolution of the AK. Where can I get one with the quick-change barrel? What barrel options are available?
How much?

I tried searching arfcom and google and didn't turn up anything for sale, or even much information at all about the ak-12 except for a wikipedia page that contained lots of speculation and few hard facts.

Posted: 2/15/2012 6:34:03 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi...

The AK-12 sounds like an awesome rifle, really a nice modern evolution of the AK. Where can I get one with the quick-change barrel? What barrel options are available?
How much?

I tried searching arfcom and google and didn't turn up anything for sale, or even much information at all about the ak-12 except for a wikipedia page that contained lots of speculation and few hard facts.

It's not even readily available in Russia yet, and it probably will never be available in the US.

Posted: 2/15/2012 7:15:04 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Wat do you mean? U put a new one in?
Thats a good point though, now that we cant get combloc barrels anymore it makes the ak a much less disirable platform imo. I cant believe our own government wont let us get the highest quality barrels for our own rifles but it's ok to get ar barrels from fn that are the same chrome thickness and not illegal? Just over a retarded discrepency.. I hate it, and they have done huge damage to the ak market.

Posted: 2/15/2012 10:32:17 AM EDT

[#21]

Get a quality US made AK barrel.

Posted: 2/15/2012 10:37:33 AM EDT

[#22]

well i had my dealer/friend call robinson on monday for their dealer pack. he got voicemail, left a message and he is still waiting for a callback.
their poor customer service seems to be alive and well.

Posted: 2/15/2012 1:40:57 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
well i had my dealer/friend call robinson on monday for their dealer pack. he got voicemail, left a message and he is still waiting for a callback.
their poor customer service seems to be alive and well.

QFT

Posted: 2/15/2012 2:27:18 PM EDT

[#24]

I asked my local ffl to get a price list last wednsday and still no call either, i still want one in a bad way and im willing to wait!

Posted: 2/15/2012 5:05:41 PM EDT

[#25]

Sounds familiar.

Problem is that margins for the dealers are really tight on firearms, so there is no room for hassles. I think with many dealers you only get one chance.

RA has 7 employees apparently and just way too much work.

Do yourself and your dealer a favor. Order from the stocking dealers listed her and transfer it.

Posted: 2/15/2012 5:32:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
~Do yourself and your dealer a favor. Order from the stocking dealers listed her and transfer it.

Kermit Zahn,
Wild Thang Farms 3150 Fuller Road
Emmett, ID 83617-9158
Phone: (208) 365-6582

Little Jack's Guns
Milton FL
(503) 708 4740
[email protected]

Jensen Arms
285 E 29th St # E
Loveland, CO 80538
970-663-5994

Posted: 2/15/2012 5:38:10 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
~Do yourself and your dealer a favor. Order from the stocking dealers listed her and transfer it.

Kermit Zahn,
Wild Thang Farms 3150 Fuller Road
Emmett, ID 83617-9158
Phone: (208) 365-6582

Little Jack's Guns
Milton FL
(503) 708 4740
[email protected]

Jensen Arms
285 E 29th St # E
Loveland, CO 80538
970-663-5994

Huge +1 for Kermit!

Posted: 2/16/2012 10:25:00 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Wat do you mean? U put a new one in?
Thats a good point though, now that we cant get combloc barrels anymore it makes the ak a much less disirable platform imo. I cant believe our own government wont let us get the highest quality barrels for our own rifles but it's ok to get ar barrels from fn that are the same chrome thickness and not illegal? Just over a retarded discrepency.. I hate it, and they have done huge damage to the ak market.

Needing a press to change the barrel if you can find a replacement is the other issue. XCR just needs an allen wrench.

I wish some American company would make an all steel rifle with a true AK action but a seperate upper and lower receiver like an AR so barrel cleaning would be easier and the optics mounting would be more solid.

Posted: 2/16/2012 10:29:29 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Wat do you mean? U put a new one in?
Thats a good point though, now that we cant get combloc barrels anymore it makes the ak a much less disirable platform imo. I cant believe our own government wont let us get the highest quality barrels for our own rifles but it's ok to get ar barrels from fn that are the same chrome thickness and not illegal? Just over a retarded discrepency.. I hate it, and they have done huge damage to the ak market.

Needing a press to change the barrel if you can find a replacement is the other issue. XCR just needs an allen wrench.

I wish some American company would make an all steel rifle with a true AK action but a seperate upper and lower receiver like an AR so barrel cleaning would be easier and the optics mounting would be more solid.

Well some company at SHOT was showing an AK they built with a barrel that could be changed by pressing a button. Doubt it'll catch on...

Posted: 2/16/2012 4:31:50 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
~Do yourself and your dealer a favor. Order from the stocking dealers listed her and transfer it.

Kermit Zahn,
Wild Thang Farms 3150 Fuller Road
Emmett, ID 83617-9158
Phone: (208) 365-6582

Little Jack's Guns
Milton FL
(503) 708 4740
[email protected]

Jensen Arms
285 E 29th St # E
Loveland, CO 80538
970-663-5994

Huge +1 for Kermit!

+2 for Kermit. FYI, when you call him leave a message and he will get back to you. He screens his phone calls because he has been bombarded with unsolicited business calls lately.

Posted: 2/16/2012 6:48:10 PM EDT

[#31]

Dang it this is MSAR all over again only msar use to have awesome customer service via Dave, now we just have to wait for this guy to bankrupt his company just like MSAR's owners did....

Posted: 2/16/2012 8:21:38 PM EDT

[#32]

In my estimation If R.A. were to go bankrupt it probably would have been in the 1999 to 2006 time frame.

Posted: 2/17/2012 6:04:14 AM EDT

[#33]

When i order im going through kermit, i just called to ask about pricing and ended up talking for about 15 minutes! Hahaha very nice gentleman seems like a pleasure to work with

Posted: 2/17/2012 2:25:46 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
When i order im going through kermit, i just called to ask about pricing and ended up talking for about 15 minutes! Hahaha very nice gentleman seems like a pleasure to work with

Yes you are correct, I bought 2 XCR's from him. Good deal from a good guy.
FYI, tell him you want a spare parts kit.
He threw together 1 ea. per gun for mine.
I put them in my vltr tubes on the guns.

Posted: 2/18/2012 4:26:08 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
well i had my dealer/friend call robinson on monday for their dealer pack. he got voicemail, left a message and he is still waiting for a callback.
their poor customer service seems to be alive and well.

I've been e-mailing them to order rifles, and they've apparently been very backed up from SHOT. For a little while their phone wouldn't even ring - just run a message saying "We're too busy to come to the phones". E-mail seems to work, if you don't hear something back ASAP then wait a day and send another email.

Posted: 2/18/2012 4:48:17 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Wat do you mean? U put a new one in?
Thats a good point though, now that we cant get combloc barrels anymore it makes the ak a much less disirable platform imo. I cant believe our own government wont let us get the highest quality barrels for our own rifles but it's ok to get ar barrels from fn that are the same chrome thickness and not illegal? Just over a retarded discrepency.. I hate it, and they have done huge damage to the ak market.

Needing a press to change the barrel if you can find a replacement is the other issue. XCR just needs an allen wrench.

I wish some American company would make an all steel rifle with a true AK action but a seperate upper and lower receiver like an AR so barrel cleaning would be easier and the optics mounting would be more solid.

Hell yea!! Now where talking! They could even source ar barrels for them. Seems like it wouldnt be that hard but I guess that would make to much sense to ever happen...:( anyway, I like how you think sir! And for all the crap im giving the xcr I do regard it as one of my top rifles, probably top three... Just man to me the ak's already just pretty much perfect, but thats just my crappy little opinion.

Posted: 2/18/2012 6:30:20 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The ak12 has a quick change barrel, so does the new sig 556xi... But that's not really the point. I would like either a xcr or a scar. Maybe a acr if they get it together? But after almost a year of trying to talk myself into upgrading I just dont think any of them can trump my ak. I know many disagree, and I do think quick change barrels are cool. But barrels for the scar are a grand and for the xcr there still the price of a cheap ak.
So why should I trade my rifle made from steel that will never come apart for one out of plastic and aluminum that has screw and glue holding it together? The scar has a chassis life of 90,000 rounds.. The ak? Maybe 5 lifetimes? And then there's that my ak weighs 6.5 lbs, is accurate out to 500 yards, shout's 2 inch groups all day with the crappiest ammo, folding stock, I cant really see any faults in it, other than it doesn't shoot moa. Really though, most of these dont. Maybe with match ammo but I dont really care. Oh and I can get it rebarreled for maybe $300..
And I must say I DO want to,upgrade! I think about it all the time, and I really,think caliber changes, or just being able to pull the barrel off is sooo cool! I just dont think the trade off's are worth it overall and think my ak is the better rifle for now. However I do believe the ak12 will be one hell of a rifle and the rifle to beat but russian forces wont see it for probably three years so if we ever do it will probably be a very very long time untell then. Anyway that's how I see it.. Now convince me to buy a scar instead please!! That rifle turns me on!! :)

What happens when you shoot out your AK's barrel?

Wat do you mean? U put a new one in?
Thats a good point though, now that we cant get combloc barrels anymore it makes the ak a much less disirable platform imo. I cant believe our own government wont let us get the highest quality barrels for our own rifles but it's ok to get ar barrels from fn that are the same chrome thickness and not illegal? Just over a retarded discrepency.. I hate it, and they have done huge damage to the ak market.

Needing a press to change the barrel if you can find a replacement is the other issue. XCR just needs an allen wrench.

I wish some American company would make an all steel rifle with a true AK action but a seperate upper and lower receiver like an AR so barrel cleaning would be easier and the optics mounting would be more solid.

Just wondering, how do you define a true AK action?
How is the XCR action different from the AK?

Posted: 2/18/2012 6:35:30 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Could you please explain why the XCR will never be as good or better then the AK12?

Posted: 2/18/2012 6:50:32 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry but the xcr will never be better than an ak.... The ak12 is what the ak has evolved into, not an xcr. An xcr is like the retarded american version.

Could you please explain why the XCR will never be as good or better then the AK12?

The AK-12 is still in development. Nobody really knows what it will have when it is finalized. So right now it has whatever features the fans want, and no problems or teething issues at all. See "Masada, Magpul". I havent been able to find any evidence of a QD barrel on the AK-12, for example, just picatinny rails and better ergonomics.

Posted: 2/18/2012 7:41:27 AM EDT

[#40]

I read in a russian magazine article from an interview with iszmash that qc barrel is one of it's features, it is completely modular and going to be used in 20 different variations for the military and polices special requirements, much like the 100 series is being used now.
It is undergoing there stringent reliability testing now and it IS completely finished. There will be small changes but like all the other ak's that have come out, they dont give the year designation if it isn't ready to go. They have already said it is just as reliable as a 74m and more accurate. The military will start there test next year and if the other ak's were any indication, it should go into service in around three years.
As far as comparing it to the xcr, I like the xcr, but for reliability the ak is worlds more reliable.. Im sorry but it is.. Im not saying you cant shoot thousands of rounds out of a xcr or it isnt a reliable rifle.
Because of the simplicity, number of parts, parts that never wear out, so much room everywhere in it for debris to go, also because it's extremely tuff being held together with large rivets and it being all steel. Compare that to the xcr, you will find while the xcr is built tough, it is really built more like a m4. The action is very much like a ak though but the places the action and piston slide in has very tighter tolerances. You can bury an ak and come back in ten years and dust it off and shoot it. You could not do that with an xcr. You could run over an ak and still shoot it, you couldn't do that with an xcr. You get my point, russian stuff is just made tougher because there less technically advanced and use older manufacturing processes and materials, it's not really a good or bad thing, an ak12 will not be better than an xcr, its just better at being reliable.
Its heavier, not as easy to replace parts, fix it, more propietary parts, not to mention in america none of that reliability really matters and it being from so far away creates even more drawbacks to owning an ak, like sourcing parts, ammo, accessories, laws, etc.

Posted: 2/18/2012 9:43:43 AM EDT

[#41]

Sooooo... Its not out yet, its reliability is unknown, the military hasnt really even looked at it yet, and somewhere in those 20 variations it'll have every feature anybody ever wanted.

Right now its vaporware. I'm sure its awesome, but vaporware tends to be. Reality is somewhat less kind.

Posted: 2/18/2012 9:56:17 AM EDT

[#42]

How much is an XCR spare parts kit, and what does it include? I am falling in love with my XCR all over again.

Posted: 2/18/2012 10:58:50 AM EDT

[#43]

Anyone get their new stock yet?

Posted: 2/18/2012 11:22:03 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Sooooo... Its not out yet, its reliability is unknown, the military hasnt really even looked at it yet, and somewhere in those 20 variations it'll have every feature anybody ever wanted.

Right now its vaporware. I'm sure its awesome, but vaporware tends to be. Reality is somewhat less kind.

Dude... First of all it is a military firearm, the military has looked at it. Izshmash creates arms for the russian military, they created the ak for the military. It is not vaporware, it is just not made for you. You cant have one to play with and probably will never get one. Did you not get that part in anema's post awhile ago? Im not trying to sell it to you or whatever you seem to think? All I said was I prefer my ak's to the xcr. At most if we do get them then im sure it will be better than an xcr.
Oh also, they have done full reliability testing, they just havent done the bury it in antartica for a year then light it on fire then crush it then fire it kind of reliability testing. They have said it is as reliable as a regular ak... These are the people that,invented the ak, you know that right? Hope thats good enough to sit in your safe next to your xcr if we ever get them..

Posted: 2/18/2012 11:22:41 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I read in a russian magazine article from an interview with iszmash that qc barrel is one of it's features, it is completely modular and going to be used in 20 different variations for the military and polices special requirements, much like the 100 series is being used now.
It is undergoing there stringent reliability testing now and it IS completely finished. There will be small changes but like all the other ak's that have come out, they dont give the year designation if it isn't ready to go. They have already said it is just as reliable as a 74m and more accurate. The military will start there test next year and if the other ak's were any indication, it should go into service in around three years.
As far as comparing it to the xcr, I like the xcr, but for reliability the ak is worlds more reliable.. Im sorry but it is.. Im not saying you cant shoot thousands of rounds out of a xcr or it isnt a reliable rifle.
Because of the simplicity, number of parts, parts that never wear out, so much room everywhere in it for debris to go, also because it's extremely tuff being held together with large rivets and it being all steel. Compare that to the xcr, you will find while the xcr is built tough, it is really built more like a m4. The action is very much like a ak though but the places the action and piston slide in has very tighter tolerances. You can bury an ak and come back in ten years and dust it off and shoot it. You could not do that with an xcr. You could run over an ak and still shoot it, you couldn't do that with an xcr. You get my point, russian stuff is just made tougher because there less technically advanced and use older manufacturing processes and materials, it's not really a good or bad thing, an ak12 will not be better than an xcr, its just better at being reliable.
Its heavier, not as easy to replace parts, fix it, more propietary parts, not to mention in america none of that reliability really matters and it being from so far away creates even more drawbacks to owning an ak, like sourcing parts, ammo, accessories, laws, etc.

I admire your enthusiam and love of Russian weapons, but enthusiam and love of a country and/or its weapon systems does not equate to the actual performance of a protoytpe. Don't confuse an Iszmash marketing pitch with reality.

Posted: 2/18/2012 11:48:03 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sooooo... Its not out yet, its reliability is unknown, the military hasnt really even looked at it yet, and somewhere in those 20 variations it'll have every feature anybody ever wanted.

Right now its vaporware. I'm sure its awesome, but vaporware tends to be. Reality is somewhat less kind.

Dude... First of all it is a military firearm, the military has looked at it. Izshmash creates arms for the russian military, they created the ak for the military. It is not vaporware, it is just not made for you. You cant have one to play with and probably will never get one. Did you not get that part in anema's post awhile ago? Im not trying to sell it to you or whatever you seem to think? All I said was I prefer my ak's to the xcr. At most if we do get them then im sure it will be better than an xcr.
Oh also, they have done full reliability testing, they just havent done the bury it in antartica for a year then light it on fire then crush it then fire it kind of reliability testing. They have said it is as reliable as a regular ak... These are the people that,invented the ak, you know that right? Hope thats good enough to sit in your safe next to your xcr if we ever get them..

Copy's arms for the Russian military, the AK is just a simplified version of the MP44 (sorry, its true).

Posted: 2/18/2012 12:06:01 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sooooo... Its not out yet, its reliability is unknown, the military hasnt really even looked at it yet, and somewhere in those 20 variations it'll have every feature anybody ever wanted.

Right now its vaporware. I'm sure its awesome, but vaporware tends to be. Reality is somewhat less kind.

Dude... First of all it is a military firearm, the military has looked at it. Izshmash creates arms for the russian military, they created the ak for the military. It is not vaporware, it is just not made for you. You cant have one to play with and probably will never get one. Did you not get that part in anema's post awhile ago? Im not trying to sell it to you or whatever you seem to think? All I said was I prefer my ak's to the xcr. At most if we do get them then im sure it will be better than an xcr.
Oh also, they have done full reliability testing, they just havent done the bury it in antartica for a year then light it on fire then crush it then fire it kind of reliability testing. They have said it is as reliable as a regular ak... These are the people that,invented the ak, you know that right? Hope thats good enough to sit in your safe next to your xcr if we ever get them..

All the AK brings to the table is reliability, and I'm not even sure its more reliable.
With the shitty sights, poor safety selector and no way of mounting a scope I would have to say the XCR wins hands down.
Don't get me wrong, I love the AK but I think between the two, I would run with the XCR.

Posted: 2/18/2012 1:44:50 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
How much is an XCR spare parts kit, and what does it include? I am falling in love with my XCR all over again.

I will have to see if i can find the receipt as I can't remember what i paid for the spare parts kits.
I just remember asking Kermit to throw one together for each gun, he did, & i paid for them with the guns.
I'll look at them later as im cleaning them today out of GP. They never really need it, they dont get dirty for a long while.

ETA Photo;

I found my receipt but it was not itemized, just one total for all of it i sent to Kermit.

Posted: 2/18/2012 2:25:02 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How much is an XCR spare parts kit, and what does it include? I am falling in love with my XCR all over again.

I will have to see if i can find the receipt as I can't remember what i paid for the spare parts kits.
I just remember asking Kermit to throw one together for each gun, he did, & i paid for them with the guns.
I'll look at them later as im cleaning them today out of GP. They never really need it, they dont get dirty for a long while.

ETA Photo; http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v394/Joe-A275/IMG_0729.jpg

I found my receipt but it was not itemized, just one total for all of it i sent to Kermit.

Looks like they might all fit inside the MIAD grip... I'll have to call Kermit.

Thank you!

Posted: 2/18/2012 7:02:32 PM EDT

[#50]

Regarding the parts kit price, you'd have to contact Kermit to verify, but he once quoted me a range of $55-$126, depending on which parts you wanted. Looking at that pic, it has everything except a gas dial, so I'd venture to say around $100 +/-. Also, that pic has the old style BHO, FYI.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Robinson XCR (Page 4 of 6)

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