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Posted: 8/2/2010 4:32:38 PM EDT
Hey guys...........I am pondering an MSAR STG rifle and want one in a bad way...........trouble is, I need to either trade an AR or sell one to do it. I have 2 AR rifles........one is a LCW lower with Stag upper, and is a mutt, the other a Colt 6520.........which will stay with me. Should I trade the other AR for one?
Link Posted: 8/2/2010 5:53:56 PM EDT
i handled a msar for the first time this past weekend.. and yes i would trade one in your situation. i now want one in a bad way
Link Posted: 8/2/2010 6:07:17 PM EDT
I would like to have one someday but would not trade a good AR for one.
Link Posted: 8/2/2010 6:17:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By colklink:
I would like to have one someday but would not trade a good AR for one.


+1
Link Posted: 8/2/2010 7:00:30 PM EDT
I had to have one when they first came out....paid top dollar right away.

It is a great gun, but it always sat inthe gun safe and my ARs went to the range. I ended up selling it to a good friend at a large loss.........now I am building another AR with the money. I haven't regretted it yet.

My point.......+1 to not trading a good AR for one.
Link Posted: 8/2/2010 7:23:18 PM EDT
Put a ACOG on one then try to shoot it from either side like around corners.......you will keep the AR when the swelling from the spent case in your mouth heals.
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 2:51:42 AM EDT
Depends if you like bullpups.

If you want one, try shooting a friends before you commit.

Max
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 6:33:33 AM EDT
Ditch the mutt AR.
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 7:52:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2010 7:55:30 AM EDT by MadDogDan]
I just picked up an MSAR E4 (uses AR mags). I traded a Springfield TRP Operator 1911 for it. If I had to I would have traded one of my AR's for it. It balances better than any of my AR's and I have them in 7.5", 10.5", 11", & 16". Plenty of rail space on some models for anything (lights, lasers, etc.) you might want to mount. When you learn how mag changes can be just as fast as with an AR.

Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot shoot weak side. Manticore makes a little plastic piece called the Brass Buster. It is a snap-on brass deflecter that can be use both right and left handed. It allows you to shoot from the weak side and around corners just like you can with an AR. No brass in the teeth. I am a lefty (have a left hand bolt on my MSAR) and have a greater potential of getting hit in the face with brass shooting my right hand AR then I do with my E4 using the Brass Buster.

I say GO FOR IT. But that is JMHO,
MadDog
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 9:04:02 AM EDT
Had one for a few months, Lot of Fail to to Feed problems, accuracy left something to be desired past 150 yards as well. Couldn't see it having any practical purpose past looking really cool. I would stick with the extra AR if I were you (as long as its a good shooter, but that goes without saying)
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 9:04:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2010 9:18:31 AM EDT by Dawg180]
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Put a ACOG on one then try to shoot it from either side like around corners.......you will keep the AR when the swelling from the spent case in your mouth heals.


As MadDogDan said put a Brass Buster on it and no more problems with that.

I am a big propenent of the MSAR/AUG rifles. There are a lot of urban legends about why they aren't as good as conventional layout rifles, but most of those really are just urban legend. A good example is the 'slower to reload' claim- well, instead of grabbing in front of your primary hand you are grabbing behind. You press a button and pull out the mag and insert a new mag- not any slower as long as you have practiced it a bit and know the manual of arms.

In a state like Illinois where SBR's aren't allowed it really shines- I can have a 27" rifle with a 16" barrel without any special paperwork. Need a more compact package for transport? I don't even have to mess with push pins, just remove the quick detach barrel and suddenly it is less than 21" overall.

Bullpups are a growing market, and the aftermarket is finally starting to catch up. For whatever reason there seems to be a bit of prejudice against bullpups, I suspect mostly because they are just plain different from what most people learn to shoot on. But that really kind of captures it- they are not better or worse, just different.

I recently had a Tennessee SWAT officer call and order one of the Brass Buster brass deflector from me, and asked him what he was going to use it for. He told me "well, most my Dept. likes to carry short barrelled AR's. I like the MSAR because we do a lot of house clearing, and I don't have some of the issues that you run into with a short barrled AR- worse ballistics and sometimes cycling issues. A couple of times I have needed a hand free to grab ahold of someone or push them down, and the point of balance on the gun is right at the grip, so I can keep a good hold and control on it. Besides, if I ever got in a situation where I needed to take a shot one handed, it is a lot easier to control than an AR-15." He was buying the brass deflector to solve the one problem with the rifle he had found, which was brass in the face when week hand shooting.

In any case, if you already have 3 AR's, why not sell the mutt and pick up an MSAR or AUG and try it out. It isn't for everyone, but I think it is always good to try something new.

Sven


Link Posted: 8/3/2010 9:45:56 AM EDT
Could be a interesting product, however how does it affect your weak side cheek weld and ability to get into "scope range" like with the ACOG. With the one I had that was the issue.......weak side required me to hold it back so as to get the brass to clear my face and that messed up my view in the optic.....not a problem when using the AR platform. Does this brass bump thing fix that?
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 11:55:09 AM EDT
AR's are a dime a dozen. StG77 clones are cool as crap.
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 12:25:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2010 12:29:20 PM EDT by SilentType]
Once you go bullpup you'll have a hard time accepting the front heavy traditional rifles.

The natural swing when you bring that barrel up and the percision it stops at with no overtravel is a thing of beauty.

Muzzle float is a thing of the past with the STG or E4. You're on target with that center of gravity and muzzle rise is incredible. You'll never see a similar length AR rifle (have to be an SBR) shoot so steadily.

Quick change barrel is simple. Take down is simple. It's now highly customizable thanks to the aftermarket community. Improved trigger pull, rails for every possible configuration, and even charging handles and brass deflectors. It's pretty cool.

I'm rocking an Inventure Concepts Tri-Rail on my STG556 and it not only looks sci-fi, but shoots like a dream and does everything I could ever do with my AR and more.

Made in the USA by a USA based company. That's always a nice plus.

Best thing is a 27" rifle with a 16" barrel shooting 5.56x45mm or .223 Rem with no B.S. ATF paper work. Keep the man out of your life as much as possible I always say.
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 12:52:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2010 12:56:36 PM EDT by MadDogDan]
Scottrh2: Yes, the Brass Buster does fix the problem. I can double tap and do hammers MUCH faster with the E4 because there is almost NO muzzle climb (or at least MUCH less then any of my AR's including my shortest SBR).

MadDog
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 2:22:20 PM EDT
Not sure what you're looking for here; justification for trading an AR for an MSAR? I wouldnt, but I'm not all that impressed with MSARs anyway and wouldnt pay their price for one.
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 2:33:27 PM EDT
Just looking for opinions from those who have handled both.............whether it's an idea with merit or not

Originally Posted By BB:
Not sure what you're looking for here; justification for trading an AR for an MSAR? I wouldnt, but I'm not all that impressed with MSARs anyway and wouldnt pay their price for one.


Link Posted: 8/3/2010 3:35:08 PM EDT
Get 'em both! This advice, you must follow!
Link Posted: 8/3/2010 9:52:32 PM EDT
handled an MSAR for the first time today and I can truely say I was amazed.
The most notable thing was how it pointed and how quick it was to shoulder. I removed my cheek weld and peered down the gun. it seemed like the muzzle was "BAM" right there so close to my face.
I want one for sure
Link Posted: 8/4/2010 7:03:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BB:
Not sure what you're looking for here; justification for trading an AR for an MSAR? I wouldnt, but I'm not all that impressed with MSARs anyway and wouldnt pay their price for one.


Why aren't you impressed with them?
Link Posted: 8/4/2010 12:06:06 PM EDT
Well, I plan on keeping the Colt, so if I trade the other, I will have both...........so to speak

Originally Posted By MEGR:
Get 'em both! This advice, you must follow!


Link Posted: 8/4/2010 1:04:12 PM EDT
I probably would...

Oh wait, what am I saying? I already did. I traded my last right-handed AR for my second MSAR last week. I now own 2 MSAR E4s and I'm down to my last 3 ARs, all Stag leftys.
Link Posted: 8/4/2010 4:18:28 PM EDT
I would get the E4 if you want to customize it. I have the STG556 and my biggest gripe is the rail hieght. It is too tall for AR optics and too short for AR BUIS's. I am satisfied now with the Trijicon RMR and YHM 1/2" riser since I can't run buis.
I am going to keep it stock so I am not too worried about the non AR15 barrel thread pattern.
The other thing is I like to shoot all my rifles with a target sling. It is not possible standing but I did improvise something sitting and prone with my VTAC 2 point sling.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/4/2010 4:25:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
handled an MSAR for the first time today and I can truely say I was amazed.
The most notable thing was how it pointed and how quick it was to shoulder. I removed my cheek weld and peered down the gun. it seemed like the muzzle was "BAM" right there so close to my face.
I want one for sure


You might want to see which ammo produces less flash with the muzzle so close to your face. I was shooting XM193 "tactical" (black box) and the flash was huge @ an indoor range. Outdoors it wasn't much of a problem. IIRC Brown Bear and Ultramax .223 didn't flash so much. But that might be 5.56 vs .223 in general.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 1:59:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By seedless:
Originally Posted By colklink:
I would like to have one someday but would not trade a good AR for one.


+1


Maybe an AXR or Aug A3
but an AR is a better weapon
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 3:54:24 AM EDT
Well, you need at least one AR and one MSAR STG! Thats' what I did anyway as cost of new STG 556 comparing to new AR was not that much difference to me.
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 5:27:24 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies.........as it stands, I may very well do it...........probably the E4, as I have alot of M-16 mags and that is a big selling point to me.........any other issues I should be aware of? I am keeping the Colt 6520 though......I love it too much to ever part with it, even if it's not an M-4 carbine
Link Posted: 8/7/2010 8:09:12 PM EDT
I used to be an AR guy until I held an MSAR. I sold all 3 AR's because they feel terrible now and are way too long. Really, after shooting the E4 an AR feels like it has a brick on the end of the barrel.

My E4 has been flawless through almost 7k rounds now. No AR cleans up as easy, no need for a special chamber cleaning brush anymore either.

The gun is so small with the barrel off I carry it in a Camelback and a regular old Jansport bookbag. Try that with a non sbr AR! Also the barrel pops back on with just a slight twist in about 2 seconds if you go slow.
Link Posted: 8/8/2010 10:11:49 AM EDT
Advice: Break in the STG556 with 200 rounds of 5.56x45mm pressure ammo on the High Gas Setting. Then you can run ammo like Brown Bear .223 on high or anything decent on standard all day long. Federal XM193 will go forever without failure. With steel cased you might get a stuck casing every 1,000 rounds or so, but nothing that's hard to remedy. I've had real good accuracy using prvi partizan, federal, and hornady.

The flash suppressor is ok. It's not great, but it gets the job done. Some E4s have had the 1/2x28mm threading, but know that there are some out there that have the older 13x1 LH threading. If you ask for it most companies can do the 13x1 threading or you can get Ratworx USA to rethread for you. Takes a blow torch to heat off the locktite though and remove the flash suppressor, but there is a good "how to" video on youtube on this and Ratworx will do it if you pay them obviously.

If you're not into choking the chicken with a VFG you can get an Inventure Concepts Tri-Rail and do what I did which was to mount a Magpul RVG or similar grip and then employ the thumb break method, which I like. They sell for $235, but they're worh it.





Link Posted: 8/27/2010 8:04:47 PM EDT
I love my E4. It's my favorite rifle, although I will be putting together a few ARs simply because they are the most popular rifle in the country and finding parts for it is way easier than the exotics.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 5:00:20 AM EDT
Get rid of the mutt.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:21:23 PM EDT
Do it, I love mine

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:35:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 1:24:06 PM EDT
Right now you can pick up an E4 through Ratworx brand new fresh from the factory and get a $200 rebate through MSAR. So it's like a no brainer if you've been waiting to get one.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:15:26 PM EDT
AR15 any day over an STG
had one sold it and kept the AXR and all 5 ARs
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