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Posted: 3/5/2006 8:49:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 9:01:59 PM EDT by Guyver1]
Hi all, first post so be gentle.

I have a Bushmaster M17s that is currently being worked on at KKS in Bushnell Florida.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/m17s/30-900-sa.jpg

I am having the thing put throught the works.

Remove carry handle and install long ("High") KKF 'P' rail
Front Siderails (r/l)
lightening/cooling slots to upper reciever
underrail
Cut, crown, and rethread muzzle
Shorten upper receiver/barrel

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/M17THandCenter.jpg

Cheekpiece

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/M17CPRear.jpg


NEW 'Longhorn' T Charging handle

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/M17LHCH.jpg

M-60 Muzzle Brake

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/9296/muzzle6mv.jpg


Opening Magwell for Drop-Free operation I know you can't see this, but M17 owners can attest to having to pull the mag free after ejection. This will fix it.
Trigger Job Kurt assures me that his trigger job will give me aprox a 4lb pull, great for a bull pup

I have a Falcon Ergo grip for the foregrip.

http://www.ergogrips.net/graphics/fi4250_bk.jpg

and a 6X9 folding Bipod.

But the real beauty that I'm working on is a Picatinny to Picatinny rail adapter. Kurt is cranking out one of my own design now I believe, or he may be doing a simple pass through adapter with set screws, anyway, it will allow me to connect my Steyr M40 A1
http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/typo3temp/pics/a08a9e595f.jpg
to the fore grip, via the adapter and an IGB scope mount.
http://www.igbaustria.com/catalog/images/product-montage-steyr.jpg

Here is what it will look like.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2577/scpmntadapter9kt.jpg

I'm putting a Green laser on the front of the weapon, indicated in blue, which will be the sighting device for the pistol.

The shortening of the barrel and reciever, as weill as the cooling vents, should remove enough weight to make up for the loaded pistol as a foregrip.

And I have a BSA RD30SB for the main sight for the rifle. Actually I'm looking into a $450 Holoscope for Christmas. here
What are your thoughts?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:10:55 PM EDT
Im likeing everything put the pistol forgip idea
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:12:15 PM EDT
Thats pretty wild with the pistol thing bro. Zombies wont know what hit 'em
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:27:03 PM EDT
A decent domestic bullpup that needed further development, to damn heavy though. I wish someone would make something closer to a Famas or Tavor.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:22:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 11:23:04 PM EDT by Guyver1]
Actually, I came up with the idea with more Police/military usage in mind, what could be better than having 12 rounds of .40 at the ready if your rifle jams, during a fire fight, while clearing a building. Sure, you can drop the weapon, and pull your side arm, but not having to do so may save your life in the right circumstances.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:33:52 PM EDT
Mounting a pistol underneath a rifle is a dumb idea, not to mention that it would require registering your rifle as a SBR.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:22:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 12:26:34 AM EDT by Guyver1]
Actually, it looks like I'll have to register it as an AOW, not an SBR. Anyway, the word isn't back yet from the BATF on that one.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a dumb idea. I'm quite surprise with you,

[Edit] Remark removed
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:07:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:08:00 AM EDT by osprey21]
I would think it will be awkward to carry and handle, and difficult to shoot the handgun with any precision.

To each their own....
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:10:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:14:45 AM EDT by Blitzkreig]
edited to remove text.

Not worth the time.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:11:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 6:11:16 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
All that work, all that $$$ for work and green lasers and whatnot, and a BSA red dot?

Don't get my wrong, I have a BSA on my 10/22 and I have had it on my SKS before and it worked and continues to work fine. But all that awesomeness you are doing it just seems odd.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:50:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 7:54:26 AM EDT by Guyver1]
#1 Don't jump to conclusions, where as I am getting the adapter made, and will have the ability to test the prototype if there is an aplication for it , I will not be using my M17s in that configuration. I have ordered the Falcon Ergo grip to be on the rifle instead. (as shown above.) I should have been more clear on that.

I just thought that the adapter may be usefull in Law Enforcement / Military applications, and wanted a prototype to show should parties become interested.

About the Red Dot, like I stated, I have my eye on a $450 dollar Holo sight, when I purchase that, the Red Dot will go on the scope mount for the Steyr, or gather dust, who knows.

About precision shooting with the pistol. How do you get more precise than a laser? The Red Dot/Holo Sight will aim the rifle, the laser will be zero'd for the Pistol, at say 15 to 20 yards. Makes sense to me.

They currently make adapters for certain pistols, strickly for mounting to rifles. The adapter I designed just puts more versatility into it, as any weapon with a scope mount is usable, not just certain weapons. (shrug)
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:17:20 AM EDT
Not my cup 'o tea, but have fun.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:54:40 AM EDT
Welcome to the site.

Kurts a good guy to do the mods.


Opinions on my M17S

The handgun thing has floated around awhile, the last one I saw was a glock(same basic design for the scope mount.). I myself dont like the idea but to each his own.

Good luck
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:33:22 PM EDT
I'm getting the consensus from a couple of forums that the whole Pistol idea is bad news. Well I believe that where there is smoke, there is fire, so I'll put that on the back burner till I can do a little market research.

I'm also getting the idea that most people don't like the Bushy M17S. I have no idea why that would be, as with the mods Kurt is doing, this will be a jam up rifle. Although, I wish I hadn't ordered the barrel and reciever shortned now, as I did that to lighten the load for the Steyr, if I needed to hook it up.

Oh well, should still be an acurate gun for what it is designed for.... short to medium range. I'd say it would still be effective out to 500 yards.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 6:11:50 PM EDT by Foxtrot427]
I like this foregrip. How much would that cost without the red dot? :



Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:15:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:
www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/TharpM17_5.jpg



Ok, That configuration almost makes the bullpup look good.



Almost
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:01:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:
I like this foregrip. How much would that cost without the red dot? :

www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/TharpM17_5.jpg




Rifle $795 - $800 if you can find it.
Mods at KKS $640 for the whole kit and kaboodle.
Replace handle with P'rail
shorton barrel and reciever
Cut, crown, etc
Open Magwell
Supply and install under rail
Trigger job
Reciever cooling/lightening slots

Ergo Grip $68

Roughly $1500
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:50:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Guyver1:

Rifle $795 - $800 if you can find it.
Mods at KKS $640 for the whole kit and kaboodle.
Replace handle with P'rail
shorton barrel and reciever
Cut, crown, etc
Open Magwell
Supply and install under rail
Trigger job
Reciever cooling/lightening slots

Ergo Grip $68

Roughly $1500

Ok well say i didnt do barrel and reciever and the trigger. And could you explain these mods. I dont know what they are:
Cut, crown
Opening the mag well
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:28:26 PM EDT
I modded mine myself and like it quite well especially the oko sight. I might sell it in the next month though depending on how much my move costs me.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:46:40 PM EDT
i like mine but i dont shoot it much any more will probly sell it in the future for 1300 with the bushnell hallo site but heres what kurt made for me long wait but nice work
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:53:21 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:44:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:23:05 PM EDT by Stlkid]

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:
I like this foregrip. How much would that cost without the red dot? :

www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/TharpM17_5.jpg




had bushmaster made them look like this from the start they probably would have sold better
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:47:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 10:48:28 AM EDT by Foxtrot427]
I just want the flat top, maybe the cooling ports, and a forgrip. How much would that cost? Hell it doesnt have to be an ergo, even any old foregrip.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:48:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stlkid:

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:
I like this foregrip. How much would that cost without the red dot? :

www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/M17/TharpM17_5.jpg




had bushmaster made thme look like this fromth estart they probably would have sold better



Definantly! I like the charging handle mod as the original setup was STUPID IMO.

I like y'all's Improvment on the 17S
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:13:16 PM EDT by Guyver1]

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:
Ok well say i didnt do barrel and reciever and the trigger. And could you explain these mods. I dont know what they are:
Cut, crown
Opening the mag well





You can cut off $100 if you don't shorten the barrel, They are 2 seprerate charges for doing the cutting, crowning, and re threading of the barrel, as well as shortening the reciever. The Mag well mod is to open the magwell so the magazine drops free when ejected. With the M17s, you have to pull the magazine free after ejection. It's just too tight.

So you are still looking at $1400, here is a break down of what I had done;

Front Siderails (r/l)-($35/ea) = $70
Add lightening/cooling slots to upper reciever-$75,
Supply and install underrail-$55,
Cheekpiece-$40,
Opening Magwell for Drop-Free operation-$30,
Trigger Job - $45,
Remove carry handle and install long ("High") KKF 'P' rail-$95,
NEW 'Longhorn' T Charging handle-$40,
M-60 Muzzle Brake - $75
Cut, crown, and rethread muzzle-$45 (This only needed if barrel/reciever is shortened)
Shorten upper receiver/barrel-$55 (This only needed if barrel/reciever is shortened)

Total $625 +$15s/h = $640


Here is a link to the KKF Mod shop.... Anything you want that isn't listed, is possible, but it will take some communication with Kurt to get a price.
www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1134.htm

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:09:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Guyver1:
You can cut off $100 if you don't shorten the barrel, They are 2 seprerate charges for doing the cutting, crowning, and re threading of the barrel, as well as shortening the reciever. The Mag well mod is to open the magwell so the magazine drops free when ejected. With the M17s, you have to pull the magazine free after ejection. It's just too tight.

So you are still looking at $1400, here is a break down of what I had done;

Front Siderails (r/l)-($35/ea) = $70
Add lightening/cooling slots to upper reciever-$75,
Supply and install underrail-$55,
Cheekpiece-$40,
Opening Magwell for Drop-Free operation-$30,
Trigger Job - $45,
Remove carry handle and install long ("High") KKF 'P' rail-$95,
NEW 'Longhorn' T Charging handle-$40,
M-60 Muzzle Brake - $75
Cut, crown, and rethread muzzle-$45 (This only needed if barrel/reciever is shortened)
Shorten upper receiver/barrel-$55 (This only needed if barrel/reciever is shortened)

Total $625 +$15s/h = $640


Here is a link to the KKF Mod shop.... Anything you want that isn't listed, is possible, but it will take some communication with Kurt to get a price.
www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1134.htm


Thanks I get it now! Well I I wouldnt need the barrel jobs, the muzzel brake, the trigger job, the cheek piece, the mag well, or the front side rails. And I didnt know it cost so much to install rails. Well I would hope just giving it the longhorn charging handle, making it flattop, making the cooling ports, and giving it the bottom rail would cost so much. If it does, I guess I will be waiting a while hhahaha
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:52:55 PM EDT
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you like bullpups, why not go with the PS90 or the FS2000? I was thinking about getting a M17, but they seem really outdated compared to the new FNs.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:43:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorseBoy:
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you like bullpups, why not go with the PS90 or the FS2000? I was thinking about getting a M17, but they seem really outdated compared to the new FNs.



its all about the $, some ppl just dont have as much to spend....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:47:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorseBoy:
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you like bullpups, why not go with the PS90 or the FS2000? I was thinking about getting a M17, but they seem really outdated compared to the new FNs.

Like what was said above, $$$. Not only are the guns extremely pricey but so is the 5.7 ammo.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:58:14 PM EDT
You and shawn21 are right. I want one of those FNs, but their too much $$. Hopefully the prices on the rifles, and the 5.7 ammo will go down over the next year or so. But still, Guyver1 spent a lot of money on his bushy bullpup. If he is going to pump a lot of money into a project, he might as well get an expensive FN. Although there is something nice about having your own customized gun.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:36:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorseBoy:
You and shawn21 are right. I want one of those FNs, but their too much $$. Hopefully the prices on the rifles, and the 5.7 ammo will go down over the next year or so. But still, Guyver1 spent a lot of money on his bushy bullpup. If he is going to pump a lot of money into a project, he might as well get an expensive FN. Although there is something nice about having your own customized gun.

Me too. A ps90 would be so sweet. They need to cheapen the mags too. From what I understand wolf might start making 5.7 ammo. Which should cheap it up quite a bit. I can honestly say Id rather customize my own m17 than buy a ps90. I could probably still do it cheaper than a ps90 because I dont want alot of fancy stuff. They are all extremely nice guns. Too bad we cant just have them all.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:48:27 PM EDT
You will have to register the rifle as an sbr. A 4" barrel on the pistol with a stock (from the rifle) counts as a short barreled rifle. Not sure whether you will have to register the rifle as an AOW and the pistol as an SBR or just register the the rifle as an sbr. You should really look into this b4 building and landing your a$$ in jail.
-jls7
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:29:37 AM EDT
I like all you concepts on your bullpup rifle...
Make sure the Pistol is legal...
Can it be done with any pistol? or Just the Steyr?
I assume if it were legal, you could do the same on any rifle/carbine with a Picanny rail?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:12:27 AM EDT
I'm glad to see the original poster thinking outside the box.

And though I'm not the biggest fan of the M17, at least he will have a bullpup that meets his needs now, rather than a few months or years down the road or whenever FNH decides to release the FS2000. I wouldn't count on resale value being very good, however.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:21:49 PM EDT
Nice rifle,not real partial to bullpups myself,but other than the front handguard getting hot with rapid fire havent read anything negative about the bushy M17.
As far as the pistol mounted on your rifle,personally I would rather have it on my hip or on my vest,not to mention it may prove to be difficult to perform immediate action on the pistol in the event of a jam with that setup,but hey its you gun,do what makes you happy
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:25:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colklink:
Nice rifle,not real partial to bullpups myself,but other than the front handguard getting hot with rapid fire havent read anything negative about the bushy M17.
As far as the pistol mounted on your rifle,personally I would rather have it on my hip or on my vest,not to mention it may prove to be difficult to perform immediate action on the pistol in the event of a jam with that setup,but hey its you gun,do what makes you happy

I didnt think he wanted the whole pictol on his gun. Just the grip.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:38:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:

I didnt think he wanted the whole pictol on his gun. Just the grip.

That may be... but what would be the point of that?

If someone did legally have a handgun beneath the barrel... could hte arch of the handgun round damage the rifle barrel?

-Chuck
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 12:48:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CHUCK6419:

Originally Posted By Foxtrot427:

I didnt think he wanted the whole pictol on his gun. Just the grip.

That may be... but what would be the point of that?

If someone did legally have a handgun beneath the barrel... could hte arch of the handgun round damage the rifle barrel?

-Chuck

Maybe the grip is more comfortable than a regular vertical grip. Ive seen fore/pistol grips on other guns.
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