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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:27:43 AM EDT
Hello All,

First, thanks for looking. I have an opportunity to pick up either a Springfield M21 or a DSA SA58 Gray Wolf for about the same price. Both rifles are NIB. I have always wanted a M1 but I have heard that there are concerns about current Springfield manufactured M1As.

I don't know much about the DSA SA 58's, so I appreciate everyones insight into which one you would prefer. I am looking for something that would be fairly accurate and reach out beyond 500 yards.

Thanks again,

Cavu
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:34:03 AM EDT
Normally I am a get both kinda guy, but with those two choices, I think the DSA is your only choice.

Its a sure bet or a maybe.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:46:21 AM EDT
Seems obvious since your choices are:

FAL,

FAL,

or...

FAL!

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:30:42 AM EDT
I have a Springfield M1A and I love it.... but I think the FAL is just as good a choice.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:10:20 AM EDT
I'd wait. There are a number of new 308s coming out, including a couple of piston ARs and the FN ARM-H.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:51:22 AM EDT
the M1A is a great gun, but to me it feels too deer rifle like,
go for the FAL
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 2:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
the M1A is a great gun, but to me it feels too deer rifle like,
go for the FAL




Get the FAL. It makes for a GREAT deer rifle.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:22:40 PM EDT
DSA.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:32:39 PM EDT
FAL ....now go buy that beauty :)
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:17:55 PM EDT
M1A everyday
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:38:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By survivorman:
FAL ....now go buy that beauty :)



yep.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:19:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:14:36 AM EDT
From those two, I'd go with the DSA. There was a reason the military eventually phased out the M21, mainly maintaining the accuracy of the system. Though I'll admit I really don't know much about using the FAL platform as a precision rifle.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:24:29 AM EDT
Seems to me that you're looking for more of a precision rifle. For that reason I would reccomend the M21 topped off with a good scope. I would think that it would be more accurate than the FAL. I don't recall the Grey Wolf being a precision rifle, though I could be wrong.


-K
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:30:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
Seems to me that you're looking for more of a precision rifle. For that reason I would reccomend the M21 topped off with a good scope. I would think that it would be more accurate than the FAL. I don't recall the Grey Wolf being a precision rifle, though I could be wrong.


-K



That is my problem also. I don't really know if the Gray Wolf will perform at longer distances. I guess I could just be way off base wanting a semi-auto for the role in the first place. Maybe I should change gears and look at some bolt-action rifles.

Thanks for all the responses,

Cavu
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:43:59 PM EDT
Have you handled both (or at least similar variations)?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:03:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 2:04:55 PM EDT by MadBodhi]
I am looking for something that would be fairly accurate and reach out beyond 500 yards.

The M1a and Fal are very close as battle rifles with the edge to the M1a.But if you want to get out to 500+ yards the M1a is the only choice, Hell,that's where it really shines.The Fal,because of various design charateristics,can't compare. The M14/M1a has a far superior trigger and sights, and decades of use as a sniper and match gun so the methods of getting the utmost reliable accuracy are well proven.It would take alot of money and a very talented smith for an Fal to even come close to a slightly tweaked "loaded" model, you can forget about going nose to nose with a purpose built long range M14.As far as the supposed issues Springfield Armory has, you should remember that SA produces by far the most M14 type rifles so of course the chances of hearing of issues with SA rifles is greater simply because that is what is out there.Plus,let's say you hear 10 stories about something going amiss with an M1a,there's thousands of them out there = failure rate in the fractions of 1%They have a superb lifetime warranty that they honor for the life of the rifle.Considering that you'll be hard pressed to find an SA M1a of ANY vintage or ANY condition for less than a grand should tell you something about their quality and the esteem in which their held.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MadBodhi:
I am looking for something that would be fairly accurate and reach out beyond 500 yards.

The M1a and Fal are very close as battle rifles with the edge to the M1a.But if you want to get out to 500+ yards the M1a is the only choice, Hell,that's where it really shines.The Fal,because of various design charateristics,can't compare. The M14/M1a has a far superior trigger and sights, and decades of use as a sniper and match gun so the methods of getting the utmost reliable accuracy are well proven.It would take alot of money and a very talented smith for an Fal to even come close to a slightly tweaked "loaded" model, you can forget about going nose to nose with a purpose built long range M14.As far as the supposed issues Springfield Armory has, you should remember that SA produces by far the most M14 type rifles so of course the chances of hearing of issues with SA rifles is greater simply because that is what is out there.Plus,let's say you hear 10 stories about something going amiss with an M1a,there's thousands of them out there = failure rate in the fractions of 1%They have a superb lifetime warranty that they honor for the life of the rifle.Considering that you'll be hard pressed to find an SA M1a of ANY vintage or ANY condition for less than a grand should tell you something about their quality and the esteem in which their held.




I CONUR. Just purchased my first M1 today for these very reason.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:43:44 PM EDT
If you're really looking for accuracy out past 500 yards methinks you'd be better suited with something like an AR10 or even a bolt gun. But if you've got a good line on an M21, I wouldn't even hesitate on snagging it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:34:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
If you're really looking for accuracy out past 500 yards methinks you'd be better suited with something like an AR10 or even a bolt gun. But if you've got a good line on an M21, I wouldn't even hesitate on snagging it.



I think Steve-Oh had it in the first part. As one who has owned AND sold away a Springfield M21, let me tell you my opinion.

The M21 is not end-user maintainable. It was never meant to be. It needs an armorer to keep it running. It is also VERY easy to damage while doing mundane things like cleaning it! I got sick of babying it, and sold it. I made money on the deal, so I was happy. I am currently waiting on Leitner-Wise to finish their piston-driven .308 AR they unveiled at SHOT. It's still in pre-production phase, so I have a while to wait.

The AR platform is much better suited to long-range accuracy, or of course, a bolt-gun. Now, if you just want a blaster, a BASE MODEL M1A or FAL would be great!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:45:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 10:08:10 PM EDT by Achilles1]
As an owner of an accurized M1A with a pretty good knowledge of both weapon systems and more besides, the M21 is the better choice for a out to 500yards and beyond semi platform than the Fal. It's not that the FAL won't hit dependably out to 500, just that the M21 is better at it. It still comes down to the design and comfort of how it works for you though more than anything. Somebody could give me solid points of understanding why the other weapon to choose from is better all day, but if it doesn't feel as good to me and I'm not as comfortable with the rifle layout of functions and don't shoot it as well, than all that adds up to hill of beans. As for the M21 not being user maintainable is more toward what makes that M1A an M21 version. The wood stock with the fragile bedding it has makes it more to maintain than the FAL, but as for the rest it depend on how you take care of your weapons. The M1A's part's are all steel and not fragile by any means whether you want to pick at and go into the endless argument over cast and forged which is not that much of a problem really and more nonsense of paranoia to worry about than anything, as both methods turn out parts that most of us will never see wornout or broken. The M21 can be made into a much better long range semi platform in my opinion with the right stock and parts any day of the week, but they are different rifles with different strong points and weak points. You'll just have to figure out for yourself which ones the better for you. I'd take that M21, put it in the new JAE-100 the locks the receiver and trigger group in getting rid of the bedding issue, change out the springs to Tubb's chrome silicon's, the op rod guide to a Sadlak if it needed it, put a Sadlak steel or titanium mount on it with optics of choice and call it a day. All the other accuracy mods like the trigger, unification of the gas system and flash supressor reaming should be done so it should be one hell of a shooter out to 1000 yards depending on the barrel and the rounds. I like the FAL very much, but I can't say it would be as good as it.hinking.gif
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:45:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:49:09 PM EDT by Achilles1]
Wow double post, sorry, must be my great Verizon DSL connection.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:19:54 PM EDT
FAL or PTR-91
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:04:09 PM EDT
FAL!
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