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Posted: 2/7/2006 4:01:12 PM EDT
Seems like were always having the M1A .vs FAL .vs G3/HK91 debates,. I propose a new tangant.

Why not a lightweight boltgun? I know, I know the "Scout rifle" concept predates me by 20 years. But the Scout rifle isnt what i'm thinking.
IMHO a "Battlerifle" is a 18-22" barreled semi auto .308, magazine fed, and falling somewhere around the 10-11# mark.

Myself like a lot of other i'd guess began our "Black rifle" shooting on AR's. We've become acustom to a lightweight, shoudler fired rifle that we can make minute-o-man sized hits reasonably quickly out to distances where the naked eye cannot see "Minute-o-man" targets. Also like most other AR shooters we love that we can hit what we can see, We'd just love to hit it with a .308 instead. For most the natural choice is a M1A, others a FAL and still others a 91 variant. All three have strenghts and weaknesses in parts,reiablity and or ergonomics.

The 3 above choices will put you into the 1500$ range for a quality rifle+mags etc. Easily into the price range for a nice boltgun.

I propose a simple Remington 700 LTR in .308 with a 1.5-5 30mm Leupold. Nice and lightweight. The Remington can be made far more accurate in this application than needed, Has options/accessories out the wazzu, Including detactable box magazines of up to 20 rounds and is a beeze to maintain. No special reloading worries, will shoot damn near any weight bullet/powder combo and can be operated nearly as fast as a semi in a good shooters hands.

Just thinking out loud really, ..............udog

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:58:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:12:36 PM EDT
one word


FR8



over 50 yrs old you got predated on it to
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:15:11 PM EDT
GET BOTH!!!

I have a FAL and a Rem 700 in .308.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:44:33 PM EDT
I think that each have their place, but a bolt gun has no place as a main battle rifle. This is a valid arguement for one reason. Most soldiers these days are doing a multitude of tasks that involve their battle rifle, and some of those things include CQB, etc. I would rather go in with a pistol than I would a bolt gun....follow up shots are too slow, and being slow in CQB will get you dead real fast.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 5:34:35 PM EDT by underdog75]

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
I think that each have their place, but a bolt gun has no place as a main battle rifle. This is a valid arguement for one reason. Most soldiers these days are doing a multitude of tasks that involve their battle rifle, and some of those things include CQB, etc. I would rather go in with a pistol than I would a bolt gun....follow up shots are too slow, and being slow in CQB will get you dead real fast.


Understand your point, but think your confusing mine slightly. A 22" M1A is a great rifle, but the ideal MOUT rifle its not. I envision the battlerifle as a hard hitting midrange( farther than a 5.56,shorter than precision boltrifle) firearm for semifast aimed fire in the 200-500M range. Im not advising this as the fix-all for our brothers-in-arms fighting the ROPers, But a viable option for the average arfcommer instead of your semi battlerifles.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:51:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 5:53:01 PM EDT by fla556guy]

Originally Posted By underdog75:

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
I think that each have their place, but a bolt gun has no place as a main battle rifle. This is a valid arguement for one reason. Most soldiers these days are doing a multitude of tasks that involve their battle rifle, and some of those things include CQB, etc. I would rather go in with a pistol than I would a bolt gun....follow up shots are too slow, and being slow in CQB will get you dead real fast.


Understand your point, but think your confusing mine slightly. A 22" M1A is a great rifle, but the ideal MOUT rifle its not. I envision the battlerifle as a hard hitting midrange( farther than a 5.56,shorter than precision boltrifle) firearm for semifast aimed fire in the 200-500M range. Im not advising this as the fix-all for our brothers-in-arms fighting the ROPers, But a viable option for the average arfcommer instead of your semi battlerifles.



Well, the problem with using a bolt action as you describe is that most incidents that you would be using a weapon for self defence would be happening at less than 50 meters. If you are a civilian, and you are trying to shoot someone at 200-500M, nothing good is going to come of it, (SHTF excluded). A semi-auto battle rifle is just more versatile. You can shoot close and fast, and you can shoot far and accurate. You may not get the same performance as a sub-gun up close, and you may not get the same range as a high powered bolt gun, but you have a weapon that will get you out of most situations that you will be presented with. I just don't see getting into too many 200-500M gun fights as a civilian.

I'm not trying to flame your post, I am just attempting to relay why a bolt gun will always be a sniper/hunting gun for me. Also, if you need/want a better gun for home/self defence and can't have a semi, then maybe a good lever action will be better for you...it is quicker to reload.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:15:54 PM EDT
Been drinking a few Coronas tonight? A bolt gun as a battle rifle. That idea was popular but outdated in 1939.

This is one of the rare occasions where playing Counter-Strike can actually teach you something. I started the round without a rifle and picked up a scoped bolt action rifle from a dead player. I encountered an opponent at close range. I shot and missed. He shot at me 6 or 8 times, hit me 4-5 times and I died. Sure this was a game but the results in real life would be close.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:18:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By protus:
one word


FR8



over 50 yrs old you got predated on it to



Somehow I had a feeling you'd say that.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:42:20 PM EDT
fla556, Understood,.. Like I said, just thinking aloud. And FWIW I have and use a nice "MBR"
Pisspoor pic but you get the point, Just thinking of something lighter and "Handy"


gks452, Understand your as well, But did you have to use Counterstrike?j/k Dont make me AWP your noob A**... LOL
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:44:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brentwal:

Originally Posted By protus:
one word


FR8



over 50 yrs old you got predated on it to



Somehow I had a feeling you'd say that.



HEy he did say ""MBR"" and bolt gun in the same post
AHhhh the FR8 pic !

or maybe this lil toy 762x51 enfield



so my two cents on this.

i agree that 100yrd/m in a semi/assualt rifle is need'd and big big plus over any bolt or lever action rilfe. BUT...... anything over 2-300yrd/m a TRAINED person w/a bolt gun can make hits almost as fast as a semi auto. Granted you cant lay down a bunch of lead fast or keep up the pace ( as they are normally 5-10rnds) BUt AIM'd shots that far out both style of rifles are about equal ( without optics) . Now they get in under 100m,,its BAYO time and sidearm... but where talking chevy ford dodge here now
so,,if it was a perfect world with rivers of chocolate flowing and gum drop trees ....
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:39:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By underdog75:
fla556, Understood,.. Like I said, just thinking aloud. And FWIW I have and use a nice "MBR"
Pisspoor pic but you get the point, Just thinking of something lighter and "Handy"
users.adelphia.net/~masine/M1A.jpg

gks452, Understand your as well, But did you have to use Counterstrike?j/k Dont make me AWP your noob A**... LOL


Actually it was a scout not an AWP. I'd have been better off to use the USP.

As for protus's comments about aimed shots at over 100 yards. Who says you would not aim with a semi? Sure you would drop a gang banger spraying with an AK. But someone taking the time to aim an AR, M1, FAL, etc will get out twice as many shots and they will be just as well aimed.
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