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Posted: 2/6/2006 5:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 5:34:30 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]
what's the minimum practical length for a reciever for a 5.56mm rifle? i was looking at some pictures and stats of the P90



and noted that it has a 10.5" barrel and a 20" OAL. i was wondering if it would even be mechanically possible to make a 5.56 rifle with a 16" barrel but the same 20" OAL as the P90. for this to work, the reciever would have to be 4" long. basically, the reciever would have to be the stock.



from the looks of this, it seems it would be possible to move everything back in the stock a few inches, allowing to increase the barrel length without increasing the OAL significantly.

i think it would be awesome to have a rifle very close to the size of a P90 shooting a full powered rifle round with a civilian-legal 16" barrel.

images from wikipedia.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:22:50 PM EDT
Ya it would be cool but there may be a reson it has not been done yet. Like it is not do-able. Hey think it up you could make $$$.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:46:31 PM EDT
yeah, i'm not mechanical engineer so i don't know wtf i'm talking about but it seems that if we utilized the whole stock we could gain about 2", then also cut down the recoil guide rods and springs about 2".....
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:08:56 PM EDT
The barrel at 16" might be legal, but then the OAL at anything less than 26" (IIRC) would, I believe, require NFA status. I could be wrong on this, so if anyone knows better, please chime in. I remember hearing this relative to the Steyr AUG-P, as it is known to be one of the, if not THE, shortest non-NFA carbines with an OAL of 27". Cool idea though.....and like ak007 said, this could make you rich if you conceive and patent it.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:26:14 PM EDT
True, it has to be at least 16" barrel AND 26" overall length to not be a SBR. For ARs, the length of the receiver and buffer tube mean that it would be very difficult to get one less than 26" OAL with a 16" barrel. For the AKs, IIRC, the receiver is about 10" behind the barrel, so a 16" barrel AK with no stock would be just at the non-SBR minimum for both measurements. Make a bullpup AK, and you would be right at the non-NFA minimum. Also, since someone usually asks, there is no maximum lenght for a pistol, just no buttstock. And for shotguns, the barrel is 18" minimum, but the OAL remains 26". State law in some places may be more restrictive, but I'm not sure.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:31:37 PM EDT
damn, you're right. the PS90 is 26.3, the minimum legal length is 26. rats, this idea is a non-starter. i wonder if we could get it classified as a pistol, since technically there's no stock, just a reciever which COULD be used as a stock....

however, according to the NFA, weapons with folding or telescoping stocks are measured for the minimum limit with the stock extended, not folded.... i wonder if it would be possible to exploit that somehow. slap a folding stock on the end of the gun, but design it to be fired from the shoulder with the "stock" folded?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:06:44 PM EDT
Just as a quick note, the PS90 WOULD be 24" OAL with a 16" barrel. FN had to blind-pin a 2" FS to get it to non-SBR length.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:07:37 PM EDT
fossil_fuel, may have a problem there as well, I believe (and this is without looking at the stat.) that the law says "designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder" for rifles. I don't think ATFE is gonna go for the pistol classification, but who really knows as they've come up with some doozies in the past. Like classifying a 14" shoestring as a MG. WTF???
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:26:16 AM EDT
16" barrel with a 20" OAL? Not likely. You have to have a bolt behind the barrel, then a bolt carrier to lock/unlock the bolt, then you have to have somewhere for the bolt and carrier to go when it cycles.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:02:51 PM EDT
Perhaps a bolt and carrier designed after the Uzi/Mac bolts?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:59:00 PM EDT
Guys FN is coming out with one its called the FS2000,its the civy version of the F2000 heres a link to some pics of it http://www.impactguns.com/store/FN-FS2000.html the AUG was also verry short both of these rifles with a 16 inch barrel are around 27 inches long.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:30:35 PM EDT
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