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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:10:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 1:49:50 PM EDT by BeetleBailey]
At a friend's house, he showed me a firearm that his grandfather just gave him. It is a 1900-1910 Remington BAR (that's right - Browning Auto Rifle) but it's a 12 gauge (!?) - with both the FACTORY marked "Remington" and "Browning" on the barrel (along with the standard pat. pend. dates)

What is this!?

ETA:

MANUFACTURED BY THE REMINGTON ARMS CO. ILION. N.Y.U. S. A
BROWNING'S PATENT OCT. 8. 1900. DEC. 17. 01. SEPT . 30. 02. JUNE. 16. 03
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:19:02 PM EDT
tag.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:47:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
At a friend's house, he showed me a firearm that his grandfather just gave him. It is a 1900-1910 Remington BAR (that's right - Browning Auto Rifle) but it's a 12 gauge (!?) - with both the FACTORY marked "Remington" and "Browning" on the barrel (along with the standard pat. pend. dates)

What is this!?



Well, if it's a 12 guage from 1900-1910, it ain't a BAR, which was a Model 1918m and amazingly enough, a rifle.My best guess would be a Remington Model 11, which is a humpback semi auto shotty that resembles the Browning Auto 5, since they're just different company's versions of the same John Browning design.

That, or this is all just really good proof not to post after drinking.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:49:39 PM EDT
I'm just grabbing at straws here. Would it be a Remington 11? (Or pre 11?) TAG cause I'm curious
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:38:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Milldude:
I'm just grabbing at straws here. Would it be a Remington 11? (Or pre 11?) TAG cause I'm curious



Rem 11 is my guess as well. Lots of companies made this shotgun.. originally a Browning design I believe.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:09:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuddyLeeManofAction:

Originally Posted By Milldude:
I'm just grabbing at straws here. Would it be a Remington 11? (Or pre 11?) TAG cause I'm curious



Rem 11 is my guess as well. Lots of companies made this shotgun.. originally a Browning design I believe.



That might be it - but I'm telling you, it has both Remington & Browning factory stamps. I would have taken a picture if I had my camera with me. I may get him to take a picture of the markings/writing and send it to me.

Unfortunately, his grandfather had a choke put on it years ago which probably really hurts the value of whatever this thing really is
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:14:46 AM EDT
I've got a Remington Model 11. Looks just like a Browning Auto-5. Heck I think the parts might even interchange, so you could possibly put a Browning barrel on a Remington receiver.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:34:11 AM EDT
Remington was licensed by Browning in 1905 to make and sell the A-5, which became their Model 11. My guess is that it's a Remington model 11, possibly an early 'transition' model.


The BAR wasn't even patented until August of 1917.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:46:09 AM EDT
It does sound like a Remington Model 11.

I have one in a riot set up.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:37:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 6:38:14 AM EDT by BeetleBailey]

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Remington was licensed by Browning in 1905 to make and sell the A-5, which became their Model 11. My guess is that it's a Remington model 11, possibly an early 'transition' model.


The BAR wasn't even patented until August of 1917.



Thaty's probably it - since it has both names on the barrel. Isn't that weird/cool? hat do you think the value on a Browmington is?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:13:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 7:17:02 AM EDT by Sukebe]
Remington Model 11. Remington bought the U.S. manufacturing/marketing rights from Browning in 1904. Something to do with tariffs or import restrictions at the time.

Value would be in the $300.00 to $400.00 range if it is a standard model in excellent condition. USGI models will be higher.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:15:21 AM EDT
Does it look similar to either of these?



Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:31:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 7:32:18 AM EDT by BeetleBailey]
Exactly like that, even with the choke.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:23:25 AM EDT
I'd say its an 11
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:30:37 AM EDT
Clyde from Bonnie and Clyde carried a chopped up version of that shotgun, i forgot his last name?? Clyde barrow or something. He shortened the barrel and butstock and put a strap of leather so he could sling it through his arm over his shoulder and conceal it under his coat.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:40:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
My guess is that it's a Remington model 11, possibly an early 'transition' model.


+1 That was kinda my thinking with the "pre 11" comment........
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:50:06 PM EDT
ETA: MANUFACTURED BY THE REMINGTON ARMS CO. ILION. N.Y.U. S. A
BROWNING'S PATENT OCT. 8. 1900. DEC. 17. 01. SEPT . 30. 02. JUNE. 16. 03
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:02:16 PM EDT
If you have access to the "Blue Book of gun values, look it up and see what it's worth. But I would think that if it's not in absolute pristine condition, the family value will far out weigh the monetary.

Know what I mean?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 1:34:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
Clyde from Bonnie and Clyde carried a chopped up version of that shotgun, i forgot his last name?? Clyde barrow or something. He shortened the barrel and butstock and put a strap of leather so he could sling it through his arm over his shoulder and conceal it under his coat.



I beleive he nicknamed it the whippit gun, because he could whippit out from under his arm/coat.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:46:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:58:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 9:01:52 AM EDT by osprey21]


TOP: Model 1887 10 gauge "riot gun"
MIDDLE: Remington Model 11 "sawed-off"
BOTTOM: Bonnie's Remington "Whipit" gun




Clyde's supposed "custom made" scattergun.

Clyde was said to have cut down the stock just past the buffer tube, shortened the
barrel of the B.A.R. and welded together three 20 round magazines to make it a 57 round
capacity.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:36:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:50:23 AM EDT
LOL! let me check my archives.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:49:35 PM EDT
I have been collecting hump backs for some time,JMB first took his A5 to Belgium to be made by FN! He then realized he had no market here,so he went to Winchester because they had made guns for him in the past!! They said not now,but thanks anyway!

He then went to Remington ,and the CEO and President of the company said HELL YES!!!

Then died of a heart attack the next day!!

So i think he bought the Company and Remington produced them (the mod 11 till 1948)so up untill about 1911 some remingtons were'nt marked Model 11!

They would be worth more,I have a Mod 11 made in 1930(26 inch barrel)that weighs about the same as my Browning light twelve!

I have another Rem Sportsman model(1935) it' s a thirty inch barrel(solid rib barrel)engraved with ducks on one side pheasants on the other!

I have the transition with the Rem Mod 11-48(no hump)big brother to the 870!

And then of course the Browning A5 light twelve(1957)!

Your shot gun was made by Remington under the browning patend!

When the War was on many Brownings by Remington were made to fill the gap(up untill 49 or so)!


The ones that were made from 1905 till about 19?? or so show the Browning picture of JMB and say made in Ogton Utah or such!! Worth lots more!!~

The ones that have matching barrels with the recievers that say Made in St lewis MO and nothing less also define thier age!!

If they say made in st louis Mo and montrial Qb,that also dates thier age!!

Even when the old guns show up with not so old barrels,they till command great prices!!


Cause just like that model 11 you have they are made from a single block of steel,and just the solid rib took many hours of machining just to make it!!

The recever alone milled by hand,and every thing about that shot gunwas hand fitted,it sold new for about 37.00!

To have one made anywhere near as close to tolorance as these fine old guns would cost you a fortune!!!

They are heavy and recoil ,and the forarms(wood )from the mod 11's will fit the Brownings(but not the reverse)cause the Rem uses a flat recoil spring,the Brownings use a round recoil spring!

I haven't tried changeing the flat springs to the round yet!

So yes it's probably a Rem 11 built on the Browning Patend!!!

Bob
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