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Posted: 1/19/2006 4:33:15 PM EDT
I was at the range Wed. and the range master told me to hang on to my Steyrs. He said that they had been caught selling weapons to sombody on the U.S. shit list, and the feds decided no more steyrs are going to be imported. he said this applied to pistols and rifles, not just the old assault weapon import ban. Anyone heard of this? is this new or old news. I have two steyr pistols, and one rifle, all are good guns, the rifle is 300mag, and is the best bolt rifle I have ever shot. I don't like the idea of them selling to our enemies, but I hate for these guns to be of the US market.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:36:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:41:15 PM EDT

Tag
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:43:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
They are in bed with Iran.



I heard the same.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:47:30 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:50:12 PM EDT
That sucks, they sold their soul for a few bucks! I love their guns, and sure hate to see them gone, any idea what their prices have done? GSI, that used to be the only importer of steyr, is not to far from my home, so steyrs are very common around here, I might consider getting a few to stick back. They are in the paper every couple of weeks, in the (rifles)$600 range, their pistols never really caught on, but they are good, better built than a glock, weird sights, but you get used to them.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:27:24 PM EDT
I would guess that this applies to the steyr aug, that is rumored to be new to the U.S. market this year.?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 1:35:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
I would guess that this applies to the steyr aug, that is rumored to be new to the U.S. market this year.?



What a shame. I was looking forward to the AUG more than the others.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:03:47 AM EDT
Steyr sold 5,000 HS50 .50 sniper rifles to the Iranian Police.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:16:16 AM EDT
In the grand scheme of things it could have been worse. Still I am no fan of anyone providing them with goods. Anyone know if there is even a trade embargo with Iran? Can they just say no we are not letting our citizens do business with you now?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:29:14 AM EDT
its idiots like these retards that piss me off, and make all developers/producers of firearms look like bad-guys. Of course the bad guys are always going to be able to get/make their own weapons, so we need them ourselves, but these bastards should have known better then to do this. I always knew that I didn't like that company or some of their particularly stupid and gay-looking weapons (the steyr aug comes to mind).

As an American, I would recommend that you not purchase any of their weapons.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:43:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:25:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SimonTan:
Steyr sold 5,000 HS50 .50 sniper rifles to the Iranian Police.




Perhaps you know better than I. My facts could be a little off, but I heard that Steyr Austria violated some type of "three strike" rule, where the US State Dept. had warned them not to sell the .50 cal rifles to Iran.......well, from what I heard, the third strike was when they sold 700 or so of the .50 cals to Iran, and as of December 27, 2005, the US State Dept. sanctioned them by forbiding ANYTHING Steyr to be shipped to the US. From the credible sources I spoke with, this includes everything from magazines and stock sets to gas piston springs and scope caps. In other words, NOTHING from Steyr can be imported to the US.....Period. As an AUG owner, collector, and general Steyr weapon fan, this SUCKS! Glad I held onto all my shit, and had presence of mind to pick up some repair parts and kits when I did. I wonder what Steyr will have to do to lift this sanction, or if that is at all possible????
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:38:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 8:39:01 AM EDT by sta1treeman]
The steyr aug, has never done anything for me either, it may be a good gun, but I can't get past the looks, cosmeticaly, it is down right ugly. Their bolt action rifles, and pistols are another story. The rifles, are supposed to be the most accurate ,out of the box, rifle you can get. I have a 300mag, and it is a great shooting gun.I was in the market for another, in a smaller caliber. I also have a M9(lightly used), and a M40, fired less than 10 times, both are good pistols. You wouldn't be helping steyr, by getting one of their guns, they have already been paid for the guns that are in the country. As far as the trade embargo against iran, the U.S. has had that in effect since the 70s or 80s I think. They should have known this was going to happen, now they have given up all U.S. sales, for a few guns to iran, I hope it breaks the company's back, the U.S. firearm market is large, to say the least, I don't know how much of their sales were U.S. vs abroad. Either way it is a lot of business to lose over 5000 guns.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:41:03 AM EDT
I think they sold them 500, 50 cals. Either way FK'm.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:54:26 AM EDT
If this was their "third strike", I would think, that it will take a very long time, or perhaps never. If they have already done three bad deals, in the eyes of the U.S., I would think they couldn't be trusted, to not do it again, and the feds seem to dislike the importing of firearms anyway. Maybe this will give Sig, that extra kick they need, to get the 550 series up and running in the U.S.? You never know, their market share would definently be increased, the potential buyers of a steyr aug, would be the same ones interested in the 550.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:55:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
They are in bed with Iran.




Yea, heaven forbid a company tries to make money.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:59:07 AM EDT
OMG...now Iran has .50s??? This is much scarier than the nuke development. Everybody knows a .50 trumps a nuke...just ask MSNBC.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:02:50 AM EDT
Yep, they are definently getting bombed now, if we can find their WMC's, ( weapons of mass caliber), LOL!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:37:37 AM EDT
Well, I was'nt going to reply to this thread, as I could'nt care less about anything Steyr. Some of you make light of the fact that Steyr sold a "few" rifles to Iran. I guess that you would'nt care if they sold them to, take your pick here, of any terrorist organization either?
With the situation in Iran over their Nuke program becoming more and more precarious, those rifles could possibly in the future be pointed at American soldiers, hell for that matter they could easily be smuggled over the border with Iraq, and be used against our guys next week. As someone who has been there, I don't find it funny or a matter to be taken lightly, and apparantly neither did the U.S. State Department. In the current world climate I take the position that you are either with us, or against us, there is simply no grey area, black or white.
In my view, Steyr has (maybe unwittingly) taken a position to support my enemies, therefore I find it impossible to find any sympathy for them.

But then again maybe I'm too sensitive, though no one has ever accused me of such!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:39:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
They are in bed with Iran.




Yea, heaven forbid a company tries to make money.




They had a few products that the U.S. couldn't import due to the import ban, plus they couldn't sell them to most of the countries that the U.S. considers "OK" because the U.S. either uses pressure or "Arms Technology Welfare" to supply them. Steyr was basically shut out of the only market that the U.S. would consider proper. So how were they supposed to make money? To stay alive they started selling to the countries that the U.S. hadn't been able to muscle in on.


I'm not against what the U.S. is doing, just pointing out that Steyr really didn't have any other options.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:42:38 PM EDT
I'm sure that there was a market for those guns, that would have been acceptable, and not with a U.S. enemy. The numbers vary, but I imagine they will lose more money in the long run, by being out of the U.S. market. They went for the quick buck. They would have been better off eating them, and staying in the good graces of the U.S. I hope our Military melts those guns and the jihadist behind them, before they ever have a chance of being pointed at our troops. I did make light of them being the big bad 50cal. that scares the pants off the anti-gun nuts. ie...W.M.C. weapons of mass caliber. There is nothing funny about any weapon in the hands of our enemies.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:29:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:42:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
I'm sure that there was a market for those guns, that would have been acceptable, and not with a U.S. enemy. The numbers vary, but I imagine they will lose more money in the long run, by being out of the U.S. market. They went for the quick buck. They would have been better off eating them, and staying in the good graces of the U.S. I hope our Military melts those guns and the jihadist behind them, before they ever have a chance of being pointed at our troops. I did make light of them being the big bad 50cal. that scares the pants off the anti-gun nuts. ie...W.M.C. weapons of mass caliber. There is nothing funny about any weapon in the hands of our enemies.




Steyr was already excluded from the US market by the Bush 89 ban. Yes they were selling pistols here, but not very many of them.

They have to make money somehow.

But hey, if you're GWB, it's ok to ban Steyr products because they sold weapons to the Iranians, even though Steyr said they wouldn't if they could sell rifles in the US again. American citizens are much more dangerous than Iranians after all.

Not to mention that GWB's father sold weapons to the Iranians in the 80's.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:50:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CIB:
Well, I was'nt going to reply to this thread, as I could'nt care less about anything Steyr. Some of you make light of the fact that Steyr sold a "few" rifles to Iran. I guess that you would'nt care if they sold them to, take your pick here, of any terrorist organization either?
With the situation in Iran over their Nuke program becoming more and more precarious, those rifles could possibly in the future be pointed at American soldiers, hell for that matter they could easily be smuggled over the border with Iraq, and be used against our guys next week. As someone who has been there, I don't find it funny or a matter to be taken lightly, and apparantly neither did the U.S. State Department. In the current world climate I take the position that you are either with us, or against us, there is simply no grey area, black or white.
In my view, Steyr has (maybe unwittingly) taken a position to support my enemies, therefore I find it impossible to find any sympathy for them.

But then again maybe I'm too sensitive, though no one has ever accused me of such!




Is Toyota "supporting your enemies" because the Hajjis drive around in Hi-Lux pickups?

Is Arsenal Bulgaria "supporting your enemies" because there's a chance that the AKs they supply the Iraqi Army with will end up in the hands of terrorists?

HK has sold tons of weapons in the Middle East, are they "against" you?

I have BTDT in the Middle East, too, and I don't give a flying fuck about Steyr selling rifles to anyone.

The US sold far more dangerous weapons to the Iranians in the 1980s than Steyr ever has. But I guess that's ok, because the government did it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:53:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cloak-n-carbine:
Perhaps you know better than I. My facts could be a little off, but I heard that Steyr Austria violated some type of "three strike" rule, where the US State Dept. had warned them not to sell the .50 cal rifles to Iran.......well, from what I heard, the third strike was when they sold 700 or so of the .50 cals to Iran, and as of December 27, 2005, the US State Dept. sanctioned them by forbiding ANYTHING Steyr to be shipped to the US. From the credible sources I spoke with, this includes everything from magazines and stock sets to gas piston springs and scope caps. In other words, NOTHING from Steyr can be imported to the US.....Period. As an AUG owner, collector, and general Steyr weapon fan, this SUCKS! Glad I held onto all my shit, and had presence of mind to pick up some repair parts and kits when I did. I wonder what Steyr will have to do to lift this sanction, or if that is at all possible????




c-n-c,

Have you talked with Pete about this recently? Last time I talked with him he wasn't sure how the whole Steyr import deal would play out.

I've been desperately trying to get my hands on some AUG barrels for the last couple months, before they disappear for good. I hope the rest of the AUG parts don't have the same fate.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:58:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
They are in bed with Iran.




Yea, heaven forbid a company tries to make money.



Spoken like a true patriot!

img9.imageshack.us/img9/1026/322uv.gif



No spoken like someone who doesn't drink the kool aid.
We sold F14s to Iran.
We sold nerve gas to Iraq.

Who really cares if Steyr sells some rifles to Iran.
In case you haven't noticed, small arms no longer affect the outcome of wars anymore.

Besides - is steyr supposed to go out of buisness because a foreign country is going to dictate to it who it can and cannot sell to?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:01:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:18:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Tell that to the parents of that GI whos video of him being hit in the head is on Ogrish right now and keep telling yourself that as you hand over money to the company who sell rifles to countries we just might face in a ground war.




Every April, you hand over money to an organization that sold weapons to Iran, Iraq, and the Taliban, among others.

What's the difference?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:30:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:46:58 PM EDT



Is Toyota "supporting your enemies" because the Hajjis drive around in Hi-Lux pickups?


Ever try to kill somebody from 800 yards with a truck? Apples and oranges.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 6:30:09 PM EDT by sta1treeman]
The 86 ban was on assault rifles, not bolt action rifles, GSI in Trussville, Alabama, was importing steyr Bolt action rifles, and pistols, well after 86, These are the guns that I hate to see leave the market. I could care less about a steyr aug. I have a steyr 300mag, and it is a great rifle, very accurate, and unique. I am in the market for another, and I don't feel like I am aiding steyr by purchasing one, because, they have already been paid for the guns that are in the country. My money would only go to the seller/dealer of the rifle, not to steyr. They are very common in the Birmingham area, because of GSI, and can be bought for around $600, very inexpensive, for the quality. I also have 2 of their m-series pistols, they are similar to a glock, but better made, they have supported chambers, where glocks do not. They are also very accurate. GSI was the sole importer for steyr until recently, now their main line is HK, Merkel, and other very high end imported shotguns and rifles. As a side note to this discussion, you should check GSI out on the web, they carry some incredible firearms.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 11:49:58 PM EDT by ThunderStick]

Originally Posted By STG77:

Every April, you hand over money to an organization that sold weapons to Iran, Iraq, and the Taliban, among others.

What's the difference?



That is a stupid point because the USA has sold weapons to lots of folks both good and bad, for good and bad reasons. With Democrat presidents and Republican presidents. Hindsight is 20/20. (Iran today is a VERY bad actor).

We sold (gave actually) weapons (lots o' planes and tanks and supplies) to the Russians in WW2. Stalin killed 30 million of his own people but he helped us defeat the Germans. Was that good or bad? Was Hitler a bigger threat at the time? Wasn't Stalin just as bad as Adolph?

Did we get into a cold war with the Soviets that cost us trillions in defense procurements? Did we get into a global chess match where we countered Soviet arms with American arms? Were some of these arms recipients unsavory fellows? In Africa? In Southeast Asia? In South America? Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Chile, the Middle East, etc? Dictators? Autocrats? Murderers?

Yeah, and what of it? The politics of the time meant that we countered communist Soviet client states with useful autocratic/undemocratic US supported peckerwoods. How many free states existed during the cold war? Are there not more free states as a result of US foreign policy? Did the Iron curtain collapse and thereby bring freedom to a hundred million Eastern Europeans?

Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, etc. are free as a result of American courage in the fight against communist tyranny. Was the real alternative to let the Commies run wild---unopposed? Would communism have collapsed much later had we not opposed them at every turn? Would it be better to still have the USSR around?

Isn't it good to fight Arab fanaticism? Wasn't it good to free the people of Afghanistan and Iraq? The current situation is the same as the battle against communist tyranny. We shouldn't apologize for breaking a few eggs along the way. Mistakes will be made, errors of judgement will occur, but the fight against Islamic fanaticism must persevere.

You also fail to recognize that 9/11 changed US foreign policy.

As to Iran, Iraq and the Taliban.

We did not supply the Taliban with weapons (for some reason they did receive non-military aid--was it $15 million?). We supplied the mujahedin who ousted the Russians--some mujahideen later morphed into the Taliban. Unintended consequences--at least we got rid of the Soviets.

We haven't sold weapons to Iran in a long time. Iran is the big danger today due to the lunatic they have as president and the mullahs nuclear wet dreams. They shouldn't be helped in any way.

Military assistance and supplies to Iraq occured in 1983-84 (although some biological agents--like anthrax--were sold in 1986). Circumstances have changed in the interim. The USA was more worried about Iran back then, and arguably still is now (even taking current events in Iraq into account).

Back to the topic---I don't care what happens to Steyr.

Off topic: Watch the DVD of "Lord of War" (out this week) for a moral/political look at arms sales to despots. I found it interesting.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:46:08 PM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:46:55 AM EDT
simple thing that many people do not understand is, styer didnt have a US market, hunting rifles and handguns are nothing

they lose nothing by selling to iran,

so they should turn down a mulitmillion dollar sale, for a country that doesnt buy shit off them, good for them

get a clue, a simple solution was offered to sell in the us and GWB said funk off,

this is why people all over the world hate the US, we have our hands in way too much, insted of dealing with securing our borders, so nukes cant walk through, we are worried about rifles in iran,

as for the toyotas not being able to kill somby from 800 yards, mount a PKM or DK heavy machine gun on them and the can reach out and touch you

while in iraq, we came by every weapon know to man, to include FN p90's should we screw FN becasue they sold to Saddam?

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:06:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 8:06:50 AM EDT by sta1treeman]
If we boycotted all the weapons that have ever been pointed at our troops, we wouldn't have any left to choose from. The AK, is the #1 weapon our troops have faced for the last 40+ years, and we have a forum dedicated to them on this site. I don't think buying firearms aid our enemies in any way. However, a company that supplies arms, directly to our enemies should be banned from doing business in the U.S., that unfortunately means we may not get to enjoy some of their firearms.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:29:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By cloak-n-carbine:
Perhaps you know better than I. My facts could be a little off, but I heard that Steyr Austria violated some type of "three strike" rule, where the US State Dept. had warned them not to sell the .50 cal rifles to Iran.......well, from what I heard, the third strike was when they sold 700 or so of the .50 cals to Iran, and as of December 27, 2005, the US State Dept. sanctioned them by forbiding ANYTHING Steyr to be shipped to the US. From the credible sources I spoke with, this includes everything from magazines and stock sets to gas piston springs and scope caps. In other words, NOTHING from Steyr can be imported to the US.....Period. As an AUG owner, collector, and general Steyr weapon fan, this SUCKS! Glad I held onto all my shit, and had presence of mind to pick up some repair parts and kits when I did. I wonder what Steyr will have to do to lift this sanction, or if that is at all possible????




c-n-c,

Have you talked with Pete about this recently? Last time I talked with him he wasn't sure how the whole Steyr import deal would play out.

I've been desperately trying to get my hands on some AUG barrels for the last couple months, before they disappear for good. I hope the rest of the AUG parts don't have the same fate.



STG77, I can tell by your call sign that you, like me, are a true AUG nut. To answer your question as consisely and accurately as possible....yes, I did speak with Pete, who has become a good buddy of mine over the years, and also a very trusted friend in my AUG/exotic foreign gun fetish. He stated that absolutely NOTHING from Steyr can be imported (springs, screws, threads, ets.) per this sanction, and that this will skyrocket the price of barrels, mags, etc. I own four AUG-Ps, three factory NIB, and one is my shooter that I shoot the piss out of. However, I've been in the market for both a 14" and 24" bbl, and also an A2 AUG....now I think these items are going to require me to give up my next born (due in March, and that aint happenin') to acquire, which bums me out in a big way. If you know any more, or any different, please let me know. Till then, take care, stay safe, and happy shooting. Cloak
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 2:07:41 PM EDT by MP906]
You can't compare what the U.S. did 10, 15 , or 50 years ago to the situation happening right now in Iran.

Steyr was warned. F'em!


It just goes to show some of the children on here could care less about what is going on in the world today, as long as they get their new toy


Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:54:15 PM EDT
a steyr employee posted on another web site that they sold the rifles with their govt consent/ export permits. the order was for 2000 rifles. they stopped shipment at 800 because the US govt asked them to stop. he also posted that the wording of the sanctions was written as steyr cannnot go after US govt contracts only. it had no effect on civie sales. IIRC the US said they were prob going to lift the sanctions soon because of their cooperation. it also seems as if it is a struggling company trying to break into the US market, and is looking a setting up shop outside of austria for some of the mfg to help bolster sales/streamline. most of this info was picked up from steyrclub.com, and i have not read the documents in question to verify.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 10:45:42 PM EDT by Cato]
Steyr stopped selling rifles to Iran at the request of the US government- but also because Iran's new president is such a shithead. The deal was sealed before the elections! As it was said here no one can predict the future and there were some candidates which were kind of friendly to the West.

Also before even negotiating with Iran, Steyr offered to abandon the deal completely, if the US government would allow domestic AUG sales to civilians. But I guess the Bush government prefered to continue to distrust its own armed citizens...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:51:18 PM EDT


Steyr has a production facility in Georgia and from what I have heard from a friend of mine who works for a large distributor (ACCUSPORT), they will be tooled up and producing the AUG again for civilian sales before the end of the year.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:47:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ML1911:

Steyr has a production facility in Georgia and from what I have heard from a friend of mine who works for a large distributor (ACCUSPORT), they will be tooled up and producing the AUG again for civilian sales before the end of the year.



I'll believe that when I see it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:14:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
You never know, their market share would definently be increased, the potential buyers of a steyr aug, would be the same ones interested in the 550.



I think potential AUG buyers would look at the FS-2000 first, but I think it's just too bulky unlike the AUG.

The SIG line of rifles is old technology. It came to the US too late and I'm no longer impressed.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 1:30:39 AM EDT
This thread confuses me.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:02:55 AM EDT
Tag for futher
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:24:18 AM EDT

IM from Cloak-n-carbine:

If you're not referring to me with your last post, I apologize. However, if you are, then go fuck yourself. Again, if, and only if, you are referring to me, then I'm compelled to tell you to suck my ass if you deem me a "child" for putting my firearm wants ahead of my nationalistic/patriotic interests. You don't know me, nor do you know what I've done in my life or for my Country, so take a couple steps back, breath deep, and re-assess your grounds before spouting off at the keyboard. If this is off base, or if I mis-interpreted what you said in your last post, then disregard the above


Are you mental?
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:24:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Tell that to the parents of that GI whos video of him being hit in the head is on Ogrish right now and keep telling yourself that as you hand over money to the company who sell rifles to countries we just might face in a ground war.




Every April, you hand over money to an organization that sold weapons to Iran, Iraq, and the Taliban, among others.

What's the difference?



Well put STG77. I've agreed with all your posts in this thread. Some folks just can't get over the fact that the US is not allways right or righteous. And when someone who is a clear thinker points this fact out, then surely they must hate the US and want us to lose the war. The US can't dictate foreign policy to every country in the world. Why don't we break of all ties with Russia because they supplied arms to North Vietnam and 58000 Americans died fighting there? Now some here will accuse me of being unpatroitic because I don't support every move the current administration has made, but I think the founding fathers thought that questioning your government was a GOOD thing to do. Maybe Bush should try to get another Sedition Act passed so we can't question what is going on. Hell, I bet there are some folks on this board that would support it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:01:30 AM EDT
We sold Iran F14's, when the Shah(sp?) was in power and they were our ally, before the whole hostage crisis, etc. Same with selling weapons to Sadaam.

This situation is different. They sold them to Iran while Iran was noted as our enemy, and a threat to peace in the area, and a rogue nation similar to North Korea. Those guns are on their way to, or in Iraq by now, in the hands of terrorists shooting at our troops.

Don't play stupid here. Companies have to change and adapt to new laws or restrictions all of the time. A sucessful company adapts and either changes products to meet the new requirements or shifts focus to new products. You don't sell weapons to enemies, and claim you had no other choice.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:10:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 10:11:27 AM EDT by MP906]

Originally Posted By gunman0:
We sold Iran F14's, when the Shah(sp?) was in power and they were our ally, before the whole hostage crisis, etc. Same with selling weapons to Sadaam.

This situation is different. They sold them to Iran while Iran was noted as our enemy, and a threat to peace in the area, and a rogue nation similar to North Korea. Those guns are on their way to, or in Iraq by now, in the hands of terrorists shooting at our troops.

Don't play stupid here. Companies have to change and adapt to new laws or restrictions all of the time. A sucessful company adapts and either changes products to meet the new requirements or shifts focus to new products. You don't sell weapons to enemies, and claim you had no other choice.



+1

You would think the DU had invaded with some of the spinning going on here.



Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:30:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 10:34:43 AM EDT by Cato]

Originally Posted By gunman0:
You don't sell weapons to enemies, and claim you had no other choice.



Its new to my that Austrian companies have to follow US law. And we were
not at war with Iran when the deal was sealed. Neither was the EC, UN- or the US.
But if you want to criticise weapons deals- why not focus on US- Saudi Arabia
deals? After all Saudia Arabia society is the biggest terrorist sponsor on the globe.
How is that for "enemy"??
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 4:15:23 PM EDT
The U.S. has been in the position of choosing between the lesser of two evils since it began. In that process, unfortunately, we have armed many future enemies. Currently, we are the only super power, that leads me to believe, that most of our choices, at the time, were correct. This is a debate that could last forever. As far as steyr goes its wait and see, its hard to know the truth in the absence of facts.
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