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Posted: 1/9/2006 1:26:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 1:26:53 PM EDT by BIKECOP29]
I will be going to the mountains this weekend and have been told there are some bears that sometimes make their way to the cabins I will be staying at. I plan on doing some hiking and am wondering if I would be fairly well-protected carrying either a Para-Ordnance Tac Four or P12 loaded with 230gr Speer Gold Dots? Or would I be better off with 180gr Black Talons in my Ruger Security Six? I know that shot placement is vital also.

I know I would be better off with my M4, WASR-10, or Mossberg 500 12gauge pump with slugs, but I don't see myself hiking around with a rifle all day. Did enough of that in the Army. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:29:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 1:30:53 PM EDT by bubba99]
What kind of bears. There is a huge difference in southern US black bears and Polar bears. or grizzley bears. Or sun bears, or blue bears, or kodiak bears, or brown bears, or russian browns, or panda bears, or teddy bears?

What ya talkin about?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:30:52 PM EDT
Whatever kind of bears they have in north Georigia. I'm guessing either brown or black bears. I'm not a hunter. Sorry.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:33:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bubba99:
What kind of bears. There is a huge difference in southern US black bears and Polar bears. or grizzley bears. Or sun bears, or blue bears, or kodiak bears, or brown bears, or russian browns, or panda bears, or teddy bears?

What ya talkin about?



What he said.


Don't go the JHP route with a grizzly. It won't even make it through his skull.

I'd carry a 5" .44 revolver loaded with FMJs if I were you. If push comes to shove, save at least one round for his eye or mouth and wait til he's CLOSE -- their damn skulls are so thick it's amazing.

Not that I've ever had to shoot one, thankfully, but my dad and his friend have encountered more than one of them and have had to do so, and this is the wisdom he's passed along to me.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:38:21 PM EDT
If you see a bear in northern Georgia that is not in a Zoo, He is gonna be a black bear. Big blacks reach 650 lbs but 175 is far more common. They are not hard to stop but they are alot tougher than a deer so the heavier the bullet the better. I would take a pistol if concerned but the chances are nil that a black bear is gonna attack, especially in the winter.

I have woke up with black bears in my tent before but they want food, not you. Use more sense about bear proofing your camp than concerning yourself with a gun.

And you had damn well better not shoot one unless your are already bleeding and needing a trauma medic. It is not justified if he is 10 feet away...

Don't worry about bears, just be aware of them. I worry a whole lot more about snakes in the southeast.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:41:03 PM EDT
If you still want to carry a pistol, stoke one with good solids, not FMJ.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:44:18 PM EDT
My guess is you're better off with a fire extinguisher size can of Pepper Spray.
Google it - you're sure to find some locally.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:48:59 PM EDT
Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum

Enough Said!

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:54:26 PM EDT
G20 10MM
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:57:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By double_trouble_2003:
My guess is you're better off with a fire extinguisher size can of Pepper Spray.
Google it - you're sure to find some locally.



Several Test have proven Bears are actually attracted to Pepper Spray and it does little to deter an attack. sure way to tell if the shit you see in the woods is bear shit, look to see if it has whistle in it or smells like pepper spray
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:18:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ORinTX:

Originally Posted By bubba99:
What kind of bears. There is a huge difference in southern US black bears and Polar bears. or grizzley bears. Or sun bears, or blue bears, or kodiak bears, or brown bears, or russian browns, or panda bears, or teddy bears?

What ya talkin about?



What he said.


Don't go the JHP route with a grizzly. It won't even make it through his skull.

I'd carry a 5" .44 revolver loaded with FMJs if I were you. If push comes to shove, save at least one round for his eye or mouth and wait til he's CLOSE -- their damn skulls are so thick it's amazing.

Not that I've ever had to shoot one, thankfully, but my dad and his friend have encountered more than one of them and have had to do so, and this is the wisdom he's passed along to me.


The last round would be saved for MY eye or mouth! Anything is better than having a grizzly eat all the meat off your femurs while you watch.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:44:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:53:02 PM EDT by NoAim]

Originally Posted By bubba99:
What kind of bears. There is a huge difference in southern US black bears and Polar bears. or grizzley bears. Or sun bears, or blue bears, or kodiak bears, or brown bears, or russian browns, or panda bears, or teddy bears?

What ya talkin about?



Teddy Bears deserve #4 buckshot.

Real bears: .44 Mag long barrel or a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 454Casull (2 1/2 barrel).

It will hurt like hell to shoot, but you're trying to stop a pissed off 250-600 pound hunk of muscle with fangs and claws.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:58:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:26:19 PM EDT by EAB1911]
Well, I have spent quite a lot of time hunting in North GA.
I seriously doubt you will run into a bear. You may even have a hard time trying to find sign that a bear has been in the area.

The Black Bears in GA do not get very big. You should be fine if you just carry your Para Ordance with you... Load it with some type of NON Expanding bullet. Penetration is more important here.

A few years back the DNR arrested a man in North GA for killing a bear out of season, and shooting from a public road. (he pled guilty)
He shot it with his Glock in 40 S&W. When asked why he shot the bear. The man said " I didn't think I could kill it with my pistol."
The bear was not trying to attact him is was actually running away from him at the time.

You will be fine. I would be more worried about some worthless, scum bag. Than any black bear here in GA.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:13:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 7:46:49 AM EDT by MyakkaVice]

Originally Posted By EAB1911:
Well, I have spent quite a lot of time hunting in North GA.
I seriously doubt you will run into a bear. You may even have a heard time trying to find sign that a bear has been in the area.

The Black Bears in GA do not get very big. You should be fine if you just carry your Para Ordance with you... Load it with some type of NON Expanding bullet. Penetration is more important here.

A few years back the DNR arrested a man in North GA for killing a bear out of season, and shooting from a public road. (he pled guilty)
He shot it with his Glock in 40 S&W. When asked why he shot the bear. The man said " I didn't think I could kill it with my pistol."
The bear was not trying to attact him is was actually running away from him at the time.

You will be fine. I would be more worried about some worthless, scum bag. Than any black bear here in GA.



+1 They will run most of the time, kind of like dealing with a racoon.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:11:25 PM EDT
I watched a SD GFP officer dispatch a 220 lb female Black Bear with three shots from a 9mm G17 using 125grn Hydrashoks. This was a "problem bear" that was coming into camp sights and had destoyed a dog and was very menacing. If people had been more responsible and policed up thier chow then this could have been avoided, however it wasn't. The bear got into the camping area and they tried to scare it into a trap, which infuriated it. It turned on a pursuing officer who shot it at about 15 feet, maybe less. The first shot struck the bear in the neck, immediatly slowing it down but not stopping it. It slowed enough to allow for a face-shot, which dropped it. Another shot was made, again in the head for safety's sake. It happend remarkably fast...the bear never had a prayer, and this was a 9mm. I personally would not select a 9mm for bear protection, but

suprisingly nearly everyone I knew from bear hunting in the Black Hills carried a 9mm G17, except one who carried a single action Colt in .45 long, my kinda gun. Shot placement is critical, but a revolver while more powerful, lacks the capacity should you miss while firing/retreating against a charging bear. Oops, you spent your 6th shot and he's still coming....... An automatic of decent capacity/caliber is your best choice. Id reccomend the Para .45 with the Gold Dots. The Gold Dots are a bonded bullet, and will provide excellent penetration and controlled expansion. This will be more than adequate for your average black bear. Black Bears are skittish, and are extremely unlikely to attack unless you should threaten thier cubs or something dumb like that.
If you are confronted by one and it doesn't immediatly flee*which it more than likely will* a

warning shot should convince him. When they capture bears and release them, they crank up the stereo and honk the horn and these huge preditors run away from the noise like little girls, so if they will run from music, they will likely run from gun fire.
Be aware of thier prescence and be mindful not to put eiether of you in danger. They are beautiful animals and its a shame when they have to be destroyed, especially since 90 percent of the time is compeletly our fault and avoidible. That being said, I have spent a lifetime in the wild and have yet to be acosted by an animal, never the less my "bear gun" is a G20C. Your Para .45 will be adequate for black bear protection, but please be smart and most of all be safe.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:26:44 PM EDT
You need a good "throw down". A neighbor's annoying toy class dog should do the trick. Maybe smear it with brisket rub and hang a pork chop around its neck to make sure.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:59:27 AM EDT
Will this fit in your ruck?

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:18:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blue_Genes:
Will this fit in your ruck?

www.au.af.mil/au/awc/systems/dvic559.jpg



I think the MK19 will take out the entire forrest.

Max
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:46:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By maxell27:
I think the MK19 will take out the entire forrest.

Max



And?

G
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:09:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 4:30:35 PM EDT by Dano523]
.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:10:04 AM EDT
870 with slugs.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:22:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 10:22:50 AM EDT by Commando_Guy]
Something with no front sight...

<­BR>





­

<­BR>





­

That way it won't hurt so much when they pull it back out of your ass!

Nick
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:31:18 AM EDT
My dad lives in PA and when he hikes he also carries a .357 Security Six w/ the CORBON 200gr PENETRATORS.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:34:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 10:39:45 AM EDT by gks452]
In north GA you'll be dealing with black bear. They are usually shy and will avoid people. Except under very rare circumstances when they try to attack and kill people. Your odds of this are right up there with being mugged in downtown Mayberry at noon on Sunday.

The first question is are you legally allowed to have a gun where you are going? If it's a state or federal park you might not be.

Of the guns you listed the 45, the AK and the shotgun are the good ones. The AK will scare anyone you meet on the trail, so leave it behind. The shotgun is an effective weapon. But being heavier and more cumbersome you're less likely to have it with you at all times. So I'd suggest you go with the 45. It's not really a good bear gun. But it's better to have a 45 on your hip than a 12 gauge leaning on a tree 25 yards away.

Because of bear's size and thick fur I'd avoid HP. If you've shot softpoint ammo in the 45 and you know it's 100% reliable then you can go with that. Otherwise go with round nose FMJ, because you won't have time to clear a jam.

Odds are you will not see a bear, but carrying the 45 will help your peace of mind.

ETA: Just re-read your post and found out you have a 357 mag. That gun with softpoint ammo is a good choice. So go with whichever handgun you're more comfortable with.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:42:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:
.....................

ETA: Just re-read your post and found out you have a 357 mag. That gun with softpoint ammo is a good choice. So go with whichever handgun you're more comfortable with.



I am not a hunter so why soft point ammo? Corbon recommends the .357 hard cast 200gr for bear protection which my dad who is also a non-hunter uses for protection in northern PA.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:54:13 AM EDT
A gun for a black bear?! Pfffttt. Just keep a good bowie knife on your person at all times and you'll be set.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:56:39 AM EDT
Dont' shoot em in the head. Bear skulls are good armor. Shoot in the chest. Empty two mags into it then reevaluate your situation.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:57:34 PM EDT
The only reason that a black bear will attack a human is if you either
A: accidentally sneak up on it and spook it.
or B: you accidentally came between a mother and its cubs.(Very bad,If you see cubs, pull out the gun and back away slowly)

in either case, you will have about 1.4 seconds to respond before it rips your head off so don't worry so much about mag capacity, you'll be lucky if you get 1 or 2 shots off. you CAN NOT fire and retreat from a charging bear.
The more power you can pack into one shot the better. aim for the vitals not the head. unless you get it in a soft spot or at a perfect 90 degree angle to the bone, the bullet will most likely skip off the skull and you will have an even more pissed bear on your hands.

the smaller the gun the better as well. if you are attacked, it is likely that the bear will have to on the ground before you know that there IS a bear. In which case, a shorter barrel will make it easier for you to get out you gun and press the muzzle into the target while the bear is standing on top of you. try to get it into the head at the base of the neck, fastest kill. a shot right through the heart and you have a dead bear, but he still gets about 30 seconds to maul you before he dies.

as far as ammo. normal self defense loads wont reliably expand on a human wearing a winter coat, I can almost guarantee that it wont expand on the thick hide of a bear. for the .357, carry something made for hunting bear, like Winchester Platinum tips.
for the .45....I cant think of anyone that makes a hunting specific round for it(correct me if I'm wrong) so go for the penetration with the FMJ.

which ever you chose to carry, make sure you have it in holster that quick and easy to draw from. if you happen to carry the .45 on or off duty that will give it a bit of an edge over the 357 as you will probubly have practiced drawing with and using it more.

given the choice, I would carry the para tac four. I'v used 1911's for years, drawing and getting on target is second nature, and it will work great on the 2 legged preditors as well.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:34:17 PM EDT
If your going to spend time in areas where you are exposed to Bears, just pick up a 44 Mag and be done with it. It's the right tool for the job.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:17:23 PM EDT
PKM with 200 grain softpoints, extra barrel, and inuit belt feeder.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:21:57 PM EDT
Of the two you mentioned I would go with the .357 and some max power heavy bullet loading. I wouldn't feel unprotected with a .357 against black bears or even smaller brownies with that. Now iffin ya wanna tangle with big brownies or grizzlies, well, the bottom of the list is a Redhawk loaded with max power .44 mags loads.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:40:33 PM EDT
Buy a marlin 45-70 guide gun.Fear nothing!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:49:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
G20 10MM



+1
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:51:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 8:48:13 PM EDT by txgp17]
I say something with a 16" or greater barrel that is short & light.
A good shotty with 18-20" barrel loaded with slugs or 00 Hevi-shot would suffice.
A Marlin 1895 series stainless lever action in 45-70 or 450 Marlin.

Personally, I've got a Browning BLR lever action in 358 Winchester loaded with 250 grain Hornady Interlocks for just such an occasion.

With the exception of maybe the 500 S&W or a 475 Linebaugh (or something like it), there aren't any pistols that can hold a candle to the amount of power a rifle or shotgun can throw down.

It was beat to death a while back, but if I had to chose a sidearm, it would be my GLOCK 20, but if and only if I couldn't have a rifle or shotgun. See the second line of my signature below. GOOD LUCK.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:15:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J75player:
The only reason that a black bear will attack a human is if you either
A: accidentally sneak up on it and spook it.
or B: you accidentally came between a mother and its cubs.(Very bad,If you see cubs, pull out the gun and back away slowly)

in either case, you will have about 1.4 seconds to respond before it rips your head off so don't worry so much about mag capacity, you'll be lucky if you get 1 or 2 shots off. you CAN NOT fire and retreat from a charging bear.
The more power you can pack into one shot the better. aim for the vitals not the head. unless you get it in a soft spot or at a perfect 90 degree angle to the bone, the bullet will most likely skip off the skull and you will have an even more pissed bear on your hands.

the smaller the gun the better as well. if you are attacked, it is likely that the bear will have to on the ground before you know that there IS a bear. In which case, a shorter barrel will make it easier for you to get out you gun and press the muzzle into the target while the bear is standing on top of you. try to get it into the head at the base of the neck, fastest kill. a shot right through the heart and you have a dead bear, but he still gets about 30 seconds to maul you before he dies.

as far as ammo. normal self defense loads wont reliably expand on a human wearing a winter coat, I can almost guarantee that it wont expand on the thick hide of a bear. for the .357, carry something made for hunting bear, like Winchester Platinum tips.
for the .45....I cant think of anyone that makes a hunting specific round for it(correct me if I'm wrong) so go for the penetration with the FMJ.

which ever you chose to carry, make sure you have it in holster that quick and easy to draw from. if you happen to carry the .45 on or off duty that will give it a bit of an edge over the 357 as you will probubly have practiced drawing with and using it more.

given the choice, I would carry the para tac four. I'v used 1911's for years, drawing and getting on target is second nature, and it will work great on the 2 legged preditors as well.



Have you ever seen a bear? Do you know anything about them? Why are you peddling misinformation? Black Bears are renown for their stalking and killing people for food. .45acp for bear?

From www.samcef.org/Bear%20Attacks.htm


Black bears are dangerous and they do kill people. All black bears you encounter are capable of aggressive behavior. Black bears are more curious and adaptable than other bears. Black bears quickly become accustomed to human activity, which causes them to develop aggressive food-seeking habits, making them more dangerous. Black bears have also been known to stalk people. If a black bear is hunting you, it will not show signs of fear and will likely approach you directly or follow while circling to determine if it wants to make you it’s prey. All black bears will defend territory, especially if it’s food source is near by. It is impossible to say how large an area a bear will consider it’s personal space. It may range from a few feet to a couple hundred yards. Finally, all female (sow) bears will aggressively act to protect their cubs.

Black bears do, in fact, kill humans.

Check out what a professional hunting guide says about black bears:

Never Trust a Black Bear
"Hunters are arguably the best educated about the dangers associated with bear encounters, but invariably talk turns to grizzlies or Alaskan brown bears when the word "danger" comes up. Seldom will hunters talk about black bears being anything more than a "simple" nuisance. Nothing could be further from the truth. . . Another fallacy about black bears is that they'll leave you alone if you play dead. In truth, black bears normally kill for food; when you play dead you only make the job of killing easier. . ."



--------------------------

to the original poster, no HP in either caliber is worthwhile, and there is nothing in .45acp that would do the trick, and very little available in .357. Most bear loads up here consists of the heaviest hard cast lead bullet available launched at the highest possible velocity. Buffalo Bore and Garret(sp?) Cartridges make some ammo along those lines, though I do not know if they do for the .357.

None of your handgun options even hold a candle to some real firepower. If you are serious, bring the shotty.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:28:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By J75player:
The only reason that a black bear will attack a human is if you either
A: accidentally sneak up on it and spook it.
or B: you accidentally came between a mother and its cubs.(Very bad,If you see cubs, pull out the gun and back away slowly)

in either case, you will have about 1.4 seconds to respond before it rips your head off so don't worry so much about mag capacity, you'll be lucky if you get 1 or 2 shots off. you CAN NOT fire and retreat from a charging bear.
The more power you can pack into one shot the better. aim for the vitals not the head. unless you get it in a soft spot or at a perfect 90 degree angle to the bone, the bullet will most likely skip off the skull and you will have an even more pissed bear on your hands.

the smaller the gun the better as well. if you are attacked, it is likely that the bear will have to on the ground before you know that there IS a bear. In which case, a shorter barrel will make it easier for you to get out you gun and press the muzzle into the target while the bear is standing on top of you. try to get it into the head at the base of the neck, fastest kill. a shot right through the heart and you have a dead bear, but he still gets about 30 seconds to maul you before he dies.

as far as ammo. normal self defense loads wont reliably expand on a human wearing a winter coat, I can almost guarantee that it wont expand on the thick hide of a bear. for the .357, carry something made for hunting bear, like Winchester Platinum tips.
for the .45....I cant think of anyone that makes a hunting specific round for it(correct me if I'm wrong) so go for the penetration with the FMJ.

which ever you chose to carry, make sure you have it in holster that quick and easy to draw from. if you happen to carry the .45 on or off duty that will give it a bit of an edge over the 357 as you will probubly have practiced drawing with and using it more.

given the choice, I would carry the para tac four. I'v used 1911's for years, drawing and getting on target is second nature, and it will work great on the 2 legged preditors as well.



Have you ever seen a bear? Do you know anything about them? Why are you peddling misinformation? Black Bears are renown for their stalking and killing people for food. .45acp for bear?

From www.samcef.org/Bear%20Attacks.htm


Black bears are dangerous and they do kill people. All black bears you encounter are capable of aggressive behavior. Black bears are more curious and adaptable than other bears. Black bears quickly become accustomed to human activity, which causes them to develop aggressive food-seeking habits, making them more dangerous. Black bears have also been known to stalk people. If a black bear is hunting you, it will not show signs of fear and will likely approach you directly or follow while circling to determine if it wants to make you it’s prey. All black bears will defend territory, especially if it’s food source is near by. It is impossible to say how large an area a bear will consider it’s personal space. It may range from a few feet to a couple hundred yards. Finally, all female (sow) bears will aggressively act to protect their cubs.

Black bears do, in fact, kill humans.

Check out what a professional hunting guide says about black bears:

Never Trust a Black Bear
"Hunters are arguably the best educated about the dangers associated with bear encounters, but invariably talk turns to grizzlies or Alaskan brown bears when the word "danger" comes up. Seldom will hunters talk about black bears being anything more than a "simple" nuisance. Nothing could be further from the truth. . . Another fallacy about black bears is that they'll leave you alone if you play dead. In truth, black bears normally kill for food; when you play dead you only make the job of killing easier. . ."



--------------------------

to the original poster, no HP in either caliber is worthwhile, and there is nothing in .45acp that would do the trick, and very little available in .357. Most bear loads up here consists of the heaviest hard cast lead bullet available launched at the highest possible velocity. Buffalo Bore and Garret(sp?) Cartridges make some ammo along those lines, though I do not know if they do for the .357.

None of your handgun options even hold a candle to some real firepower. If you are serious, bring the shotty.



I still think my idea is better. You could engage the bear out to 800 meters and you've got several hundred rounds of full auto to burn before he can make it to you.



Oh wait, M203!

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:25:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:27:21 PM EDT by HK_Shooter_03]
I would recommend dual .50s:




It's the only way to be sure...


ETA:

A few hundred rounds of AP might help with the thick skull:

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:29:40 PM EDT
If you guys insist on fighting Bears with autopistols more power to ya.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:39:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:45:35 AM EDT by J75player]

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Have you ever seen a bear? Do you know anything about them? Why are you peddling misinformation? Black Bears are renown for their stalking and killing people for food. .45acp for bear? href=www.samcef.org/Bear%20Attacks.htm

Black bears are dangerous and they do kill people. All black bears you encounter are capable of aggressive behavior. Black bears are more curious and adaptable than other bears. Black bears quickly become accustomed to human activity, which causes them to develop aggressive food-seeking habits, making them more dangerous. Black bears have also been known to stalk people. If a black bear is hunting you, it will not show signs of fear and will likely approach you directly or follow while circling to determine if it wants to make you it’s prey. All black bears will defend territory, especially if it’s food source is near by. It is impossible to say how large an area a bear will consider it’s personal space. It may range from a few feet to a couple hundred yards. Finally, all female (sow) bears will aggressively act to protect their cubs.

Black bears do, in fact, kill humans.

Check out what a professional hunting guide says about black bears:

Never Trust a Black Bear
"Hunters are arguably the best educated about the dangers associated with bear encounters, but invariably talk turns to grizzlies or Alaskan brown bears when the word "danger" comes up. Seldom will hunters talk about black bears being anything more than a "simple" nuisance. Nothing could be further from the truth. . . Another fallacy about black bears is that they'll leave you alone if you play dead. In truth, black bears normally kill for food; when you play dead you only make the job of killing easier. . ."


I think you got that backwards buddy....
2004;3391 bears hunted and killed by MN hunters. 0 humans hunted and killed by MN bear
Source MNDNR
yes I have seen several black bear, I have hunted them for 4 years and have attended several classes and seminars on bear hunting.
yup black bear do kill humans, but it is very rare for it to "hunt" a human. the only reason why a bear would go after a human for food is in the total lack of normal food sources. Black bears are primarily herbivores, meaning they like nuts and fruit. I have NEVER had a bear hit a bait station containing meat. and only once hit a test bait of smoked fish. what they do like is bread, doughnuts and fruit(especially peaches). And if the acorns are dropping? don't even think about tempting one into your bait station.

"The black bear is omnivorous, eating grasses, fruits, berries, buds or leaves, nuts, insects and their larvae, and on small animals, deer fawns, and carrion. Less than ten percent of a bear's food is animal matter."
www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/bear/index.html

"Unprovoked,predatory attacks by Black Bears are rare,but highly publicized. Such attacks have accounted for 35 deaths by non-captive Black Bears across north America this century. By comparison, a person is about 180 times more likely to be killed by a bee then by a black bear."
Source:US fish and wildlife service.

"Most bears are wary of people and will usually leave when encountered."
"Remember that most Bears fear people and will leave when they see you"
Source: MNDNR "The Black Bear Handbook" page 16 and 17

now, as any bear hunter knows, you must completely eliminate you sent, this means sent suits, and sent elimination sprays and soaps. you must also make no movement while in the stand. because if the bear sees or smells you , it will take off and probably not come back for days. When scouting before the season, if I dont spray down the scouting camera with sent eliminator the bears will smell it and i will get no shots.
If Black Bear hunted people it wouldnt be so dam hard to hunt them! I could just stand out in a field with a pile of T-bones infront of me and wait for the thing to come after me!

as far as bullet choice? the average adult black bear runs between 200-300 Lbs and stands 3 foot tall at the shoulders. they are basically a fat human with a heavy coat on. THEY ARE NOT BULLET PROOF! Even an NIJ Level II vest(worn by most cops) wont stop .357Mag FMJs.
people think that deer and bear and other game animals require extra big bore guns with only the biggest badest bullets driven beyond 3000 FPS to have any effect on game. there is an article in Outdoor life October 2005 page 69 where the man killed an attacking Grizzly bear with a knife. there is even an article (cant find the mag now for the life of me) where the author took the 6.8 to Africa and reliably took extra big game with it. (some people on this site don't think it will even kill humans)this article was what convinced me to get my DPMS M4 in 6.8 for my new bear bunting gun.
Yes a .45 ACP FMJ will penetrate a black bear just fine, and will probably be a through and through shot at the close ranges involved in an attack. and .357 Mag in a jacketed soft point is more then capable of bringing down a black bear. In fact my brother in-law originaly used a .357 Mag SRH B4 he switched to his new .44mag marlin. Even an NIJ Level II vest(worn by most cops) wont stop .357Mag FMJs.
( in my last post I recommended a Winchester Platinum tip round, I just realized that they don't make it in the .357 mag so a JSP is the best bet.)
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:35:52 AM EDT
www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

The above link is to a study performed by the Forest Service to evaluate the commonly used and r4eadily available cartridges and weapons for protection from aggressive bears at short distances. Handgun calibers smaller than .44 Remington Magnum are not even recommended as back up protection against bears.

Interesting reading, and someone had some fun putting our tax dollars to work.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 7:47:27 AM EDT by txgp17]

Originally Posted By jrosto:
www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

The above link is to a study performed by the Forest Service to evaluate the commonly used and r4eadily available cartridges and weapons for protection from aggressive bears at short distances. Handgun calibers smaller than .44 Remington Magnum are not even recommended as back up protection against bears.

Interesting reading, and someone had some fun putting our tax dollars to work.

Hey, the 358 Winchester ranked 14th!!! Wow. But I have to call BS on a few points. They rank the 300 Weatherby 220 grain 29th but a 30-06 220 grain 11th? The 06 is a great caliber but 300 Weatherby has an unquestionable edge on it in terms of stopping power.

Page 14 seems to have some good advice:

Because there is almost no possibility of a slung rifle being brought into action during a short-distance confrontation, rifles carried in bear country should not be permanently equipped with slings. The sling should be mounted on detachable swivels, and should be removed when conditions exist for a possible confrontation.
Page 15

Shooting a rifle when confronted by a bear at close range is similar to shooting a shotgun and has little resemblance to precision marksmanship. The rifle is pointed rather than aimed.

Newly ordered rifles should have the metal finished by some process other than hot-rust bluing. Parkerizing or some other rust-resistant surface treatment will not completely eliminate rust but will slow it down
Page 16

Rifle practice should be done throughout the field season. At the minimum, at least one firing session a week should be required. This session should consist of firing at least one full magazine load (three to five shots) while manipulating the bolt from the firing position.

The most important shot is the first one. If not properly placed, it may also be the last shot fired. If a bear goes down on the first shot, continue to shoot. Do not stop to observe the effects of the shots but continue to aim at vital areas and shoot until the bear stays down and is still. When the bear has stopped moving, reload, work your way around behind the animal, staying as far away as practical and possible, and shoot again into the brain or spine. Make sure the bear is dead. If the bear is still active and the rifle is empty, try to avoid the bear, reload, and continue to try to kill it.
Page 17

Women should be aware that changes in body odor during menstruation can be a problem.
I knew a guy who had a dog that was half wolf. One time his wife was feeding it when it attacked her. Turns out she was having her cycle when this occured.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:25:55 AM EDT
how about one of those rifle thingies in something .308 or bigger?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:22:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J75player:
The only reason that a black bear will attack a human is if you either
A: accidentally sneak up on it and spook it.
or B: you accidentally came between a mother and its cubs.(Very bad,If you see cubs, pull out the gun and back away slowly)

in either case, you will have about 1.4 seconds to respond before it rips your head off so don't worry so much about mag capacity, you'll be lucky if you get 1 or 2 shots off. you CAN NOT fire and retreat from a charging bear.
The more power you can pack into one shot the better. aim for the vitals not the head. unless you get it in a soft spot or at a perfect 90 degree angle to the bone, the bullet will most likely skip off the skull and you will have an even more pissed bear on your hands.

the smaller the gun the better as well. if you are attacked, it is likely that the bear will have to on the ground before you know that there IS a bear. In which case, a shorter barrel will make it easier for you to get out you gun and press the muzzle into the target while the bear is standing on top of you. try to get it into the head at the base of the neck, fastest kill. a shot right through the heart and you have a dead bear, but he still gets about 30 seconds to maul you before he dies.

as far as ammo. normal self defense loads wont reliably expand on a human wearing a winter coat, I can almost guarantee that it wont expand on the thick hide of a bear. for the .357, carry something made for hunting bear, like Winchester Platinum tips.
for the .45....I cant think of anyone that makes a hunting specific round for it(correct me if I'm wrong) so go for the penetration with the FMJ.

which ever you chose to carry, make sure you have it in holster that quick and easy to draw from. if you happen to carry the .45 on or off duty that will give it a bit of an edge over the 357 as you will probubly have practiced drawing with and using it more.

given the choice, I would carry the para tac four. I'v used 1911's for years, drawing and getting on target is second nature, and it will work great on the 2 legged preditors as well.




Hey Noob,

How many bears have you killed, skinned, and disassembled?

Your ignorance is showing...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bubba99:

Originally Posted By J75player:
The only reason that a black bear will attack a human is if you either
A: accidentally sneak up on it and spook it.
or B: you accidentally came between a mother and its cubs.(Very bad,If you see cubs, pull out the gun and back away slowly)

in either case, you will have about 1.4 seconds to respond before it rips your head off so don't worry so much about mag capacity, you'll be lucky if you get 1 or 2 shots off. you CAN NOT fire and retreat from a charging bear.
The more power you can pack into one shot the better. aim for the vitals not the head. unless you get it in a soft spot or at a perfect 90 degree angle to the bone, the bullet will most likely skip off the skull and you will have an even more pissed bear on your hands.

the smaller the gun the better as well. if you are attacked, it is likely that the bear will have to on the ground before you know that there IS a bear. In which case, a shorter barrel will make it easier for you to get out you gun and press the muzzle into the target while the bear is standing on top of you. try to get it into the head at the base of the neck, fastest kill. a shot right through the heart and you have a dead bear, but he still gets about 30 seconds to maul you before he dies.

as far as ammo. normal self defense loads wont reliably expand on a human wearing a winter coat, I can almost guarantee that it wont expand on the thick hide of a bear. for the .357, carry something made for hunting bear, like Winchester Platinum tips.
for the .45....I cant think of anyone that makes a hunting specific round for it(correct me if I'm wrong) so go for the penetration with the FMJ.

which ever you chose to carry, make sure you have it in holster that quick and easy to draw from. if you happen to carry the .45 on or off duty that will give it a bit of an edge over the 357 as you will probubly have practiced drawing with and using it more.

given the choice, I would carry the para tac four. I'v used 1911's for years, drawing and getting on target is second nature, and it will work great on the 2 legged preditors as well.




Hey Noob,

How many bears have you killed, skinned, and disassembled?

Your ignorance is showing...



I gave up, he sits in a stand over bait and calls himself a hunter.

Bears are apparently, at least in MN, fuzzy cuddly wuddly things that do not eat meat.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:27:38 AM EDT
9mm
Shoot your hiking partner in the knee with it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:45:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 1:46:04 PM EDT by J75player]

Originally Posted By bubba99:

Hey Noob,

How many bears have you killed, skinned, and disassembled?

Your ignorance is showing...hr



I may be new to this site, but it dosnt mean I'm new to hunting, firearms, tactical weapons etc.

I did only recently take up bear hunting like I said 4 years ago, and your only allowed one tag per year.the first year I didnt get one because I assumed like most people that bears like meat and filled my bait stations with it. now I only use doughnuts and fruit.

yes, I do gut skin and process all the game I kill. my count is 3 bear, and 58 deer.

how many have you taken, sparky?



I gave up, he sits in a stand over bait and calls himself a hunter.

Bears are apparently, at least in MN, fuzzy cuddly wuddly things that do not eat meat.


let me guess, you chase your bear down when you go hunting?
oh no, thats right, the bear is hunting you....I fergot, sorry
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:45:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By genesis:
9mm
Shoot your hiking partner in the knee with it.

If you're hiking with your friends and a bear starts chasing you, you won't have to outrun the bear, just out run your friends.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:22:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17: If you're hiking with your friends and a bear starts chasing you, you won't have to outrun the bear, just out run your friends.


ROFL

This would be a critter that I wouldnt try 5.7X28 on even though I want to try that on some stuff. The 10mm glock sounds good. I saw a 10mm MP5-10 cut through a lvlII vest in a norma spec load.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:25:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By J75player:
I gave up, he sits in a stand over bait and calls himself a hunter.

Bears are apparently, at least in MN, fuzzy cuddly wuddly things that do not eat meat.


let me guess, you chase your bear down when you go hunting?
oh no, thats right, the bear is hunting you....I fergot, sorry


Whatever dude. Sitting over bait does not make you a hunter, much less a bear expert. Your advise to pack a .45 acp for bear is unconscionable. I do not need to chase bear, or sit and wait for them, they live around me and I run into them on a regular basis. I have been lucky so far that i have not had to shoot one, though it has been close. There were 5 killed in my neighborhood this last summer, 2 of them browns.

My bringing up that bears do stalk and kill was in response to your false statement that they only attack when you are in between a sow and cubs, or when you surprise them. That is simply not true and bears attack for numerous reasons. If bears only attacked when threatened your hero Timmy Treadwell would still be alive publishing his drivel on how cuddly wuddly these animals are.Your bringing it up just shows you have your head up your ass. My main point of contention is your recommendation of .45acp. Why don't you just tell people to pack .22's, or heck, you brought up knives, those both have done the job before. I know bears are not bulletproof, but when you have only 1.4 seconds (the number you pulled out of your ass) you want to put as big a hole as deep as possible in to the animal, preferably something that will not deflect when hitting bone, like a round nose 230gr .45acp would.

Also, I have been "paced" by bears, a somewhat unnerving tactic blackies use when they are interested in something, following closely, waiting to see if it is attainable. They will stay 20-30 feet away and just follow, stopping when you stop, walking when you walk. It is something they do. But hey, I only live, work and play in bear country, WTF do I know, I never took any classes so I am not an expert.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:42:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 12:23:23 PM EDT by J75player]
first off a .45 cal hole IS in fact bigger then a .357 cal hole, and at the close range that you would be shooting both would probably be through and through shots.

second, I recommended the 1911 out of the two types of arms to pick from because it would be quicker to action then a 6 in barreled wheel gun. YES! a shotgun with slugs would be much better then either choices but is not an option that the poster presented.

I never said that I am an bear expert, but seeing as how I have actually hunted killed and eaten 4 of em, as opposed to you hearing that 5 were killed by someone else on your local news. I certainly have a lot more experience then you do. heck, you cant even keep your bears strait. we are talking about black bears, which behave very differently then brown bears and Grizzly bears. that's like using pit bulls and black labs interchangeably. their both dogs, but totally different animals.

now, I have never said that bears aren't dangerous. hell, its the only animal that the DNR allows you to carry a gun with while bow hunting for it, as my brother in law dose. (he has taken two by the way, and that's with a .25 cal hole at 350fps.)
and no, your buddy Treadwell was a retard. if you chase after grizzly bears it will consider you a threat and kill you. if a goofy look'n tree hugger followed you home from work you would consider him a threat too.

but hay since neither one of us are experts, lets hear what they have to say...
from your own AK DNR;
www.dnr.state.ak.us/parks/safety/bears.htm
"People who have many years’ experience dealing with bears often have few, if any, life-threatening encounters to report. One example is Sandy Jamieson, an Alaskan bear guide for 30 years. He has guided hunters in to some of the most remote and heavily populated bear areas in Alaska, and has encountered these animals more times than he can remember. Yet, in all of his experiences, he was forced to kill only one bear in defense of life and property. Most bears tend to be wary of humans and often will do anything to avoid them.

Knowledge of bear behavior also helps prepare a person in the event of a confrontation. Don’t panic if you see a bear and the bear eyes you intently. The animal is just surveying the situation, trying to identify what sort of creature it has encountered and whether it might be in danger. Once the bear realizes it has happened upon a person, the bear usually moves off to more important things - the daily business of being a bear.

If you see a bear that is far away or doesn't see you...
turn around and go back, or circle far around. Don't disturb it.

If you see a bear that is close or it does see you...
STAY CALM. Attacks are rare. Bears may approach or stand on their hind legs to get a better look at you. These are curious, not aggressive, bears. BE HUMAN. Stand tall, wave your arms, and speak in a loud and low voice. DO NOT RUN! Stand your ground or back away slowly and diagonally. If the bear follows, STOP.

If a bear is charging...
almost all charges are "bluff charges". DO NOT RUN! Olympic sprinters cannot outrun a bear, and running may trigger an instinctive reaction to "chase". Do not try to climb a tree unless it is literally right next to you and you can quickly get at least 30 feet up. STAND YOUR GROUND. Wave your arms and speak in a loud low voice. Many times charging bears have come within a few feet of a person and then veered off at the last second.

If a bear approaches your campsite...
aggressively chase it away. Make noise with pots and pans, throw rocks, and if needed, hit the bear. Do not let the bear get any food.

If you have surprised a bear and are contacted or attacked...
and making noise or struggling has not discouraged an attack, play dead. Curl up in a ball with your hands laced behind your neck. The fetal position protects your vital organs. Lie still, and be silent. Surprised bears usually stop attacking once you are no longer a threat "

It seems that hunting over a bait station is the recognized way of hunting in your state too.
www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bearhunt.baitingfaqs#unusual
"Q: Is hunting bears over bait an unusual form of hunting?
A: In almost all forms of hunting, hunters select sites with natural foods. Also, depending on the animal being sought, hunters commonly employ aids such as lures, scents, decoys and/or calls. The concept of using a means to more favorably position a hunter nears the animal being hunted is inherent to hunting and has always been a part of hunting.

Q: Does baiting involve fair chase?
A: The perception of fair chase when hunting is deeply rooted in personal values and traditions, and Alaskans hold a wide diversity of personal experience in this regard. Whether or not to hunt, and what methods and equipment are used to hunt, are seen and valued differently among the citizens of our state.

In almost all forms of hunting, hunters select sites with natural foods, but may also use lures, scents, decoys and/or calls to attract their quarry. Aspects of all of these techniques are inherent to hunting and have been a part of hunting since its inception."

you have never killed or hunted a bear, it doesn't even sound like you are a hunter of ANY sort. In fact the closest you have ever come to a bear in the wild is THINKING you heard one following you. if you have never killed a bear, then why would you know how best to do so? and the little knowledge that you claim to have is disputed by your own DNR, the guys that would be the best "experts" in your own state.
why don't you sit down and shut up.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:27:45 PM EDT
I ate black bear once while doing a gig at the Audubon reserve out by sandstone Mn...... I was a young'n then but I remember it as being kinda like pot roast in consistancy and not real gamey at all..... I think we should all get our Redhawks bobed n ported down to 2 inches myself..... The damn gun is to fun to leave at home. I love my .45s but I would just feel better with the 44.
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