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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:35:02 PM EDT
You never see folks show groups that actually hit a pre-determined point.

In the gun publications and on these pages people proudly display their ability to fire more than one round into a point on the target they weren't aiming at.

I know; just adjust the sights and all will be perfection. Why not adjust the sights and then show the tiny group actually impacting the aiming point.

Only predictable point of impact counts for squat in the real world. Like "Wow, I missed that deer with all five shots but they all struck the side of the hill real close together. Isn't that wonderful?".

Mild Bill

Happy New Year
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:04:18 PM EDT
From a personal standpoint, I use the same target to shoot multiple groups. I use the center as an aiming point and put the groups in the corners of the center. Also, if I shoot a group then take my sights 3 minutes up and 3 minutes left and my next group is there, I know the sights are moving as they should.

What you're seeing in the magazines is an advertisement of the shot repeatability of the firearm. You are confusing grouping with zeroing. Once I group it, then I zero it (if it groups).
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:08:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 4:13:02 PM EDT by brentwal]
Sorry for the large targets.

Ok, this pic shows a clean target, the center were the lines meet is the aim point.


This target shows a very tight grouping, but as you can see it's not hitting at the aim point. For that too happen you would need to ZERO your rifle/optics. This is what gun mags do, they only care about grouping and not zero.


This shows a rifle thats not grouping well, some form of interference (stock making contact on the barrel....) or the rifle is inherently inaccurate (bad rifling or barrel).
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:54:45 PM EDT
^^ That last one looks like my AK at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:01:04 PM EDT
I should edit it too say "This shows a rifle thats not grouping well, some form of interference (stock making contact on the barrel....), the rifle is inherently inaccurate (bad rifling or barrel) or this should be considered normal for AKs and Ruger Mini-14s."
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:21:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:21:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:12:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brentwal:
Sorry for the large targets.

Ok, this pic shows a clean target, the center were the lines meet is the aim point.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/brentwal/aimpoint.png

This target shows a very tight grouping, but as you can see it's not hitting at the aim point. For that too happen you would need to ZERO your rifle/optics. This is what gun mags do, they only care about grouping and not zero.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/brentwal/tight3rnd.png

This shows a rifle thats not grouping well, some form of interference (stock making contact on the barrel....) or the rifle is inherently inaccurate (bad rifling or barrel).
img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/brentwal/wild.png



All three targets have something in common. No holes in center. The third target actually had a shot that came the closest. The second target did have least radial dispersion but if all a you have to do is zero, how about zeroing the thing and showing it can group and stradle what you're aiming at.

Look, I'm just an advanced plinker here.
I do shoot some groups but the satisfaction is hitting real small things as far away as I can. Bullets all going in the same place ain't squat if that place isn't what I'm trying to hit.

If you're going to show me a dime sized group, let's see the holes in the dime or it doesn't count.

Happy New Year,
MIld Bill
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