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Posted: 12/7/2005 6:18:33 PM EDT
Gents-

As my name indicates, I'm a big fan of Enfields (with a particular affinity for one particular manufacturer...) of the .303 variety, but with .303 getting more difficult to find and my time for reloading .303 waning I was thinking of looking into getting a lee-enfield in .308, or converting one of the shooters I have in the closet to .308 as I have a pretty healthy stash of .308 for my M1A's...

As such, I was curious if anyone knew of any mfgr who is currently re-making enfields in .308 other than the Gibbs rifle? Or, if there are any .308 barrels for #4 rifles? I know that Numrich has barrels from Ishapore #2's available for the correct price, however I'm not sure if these would fit a #4 receiver, so if anyone has some info on whether those would fit a #4 receiver I'd appreciate it.

As always, thanks in advance!

Lithgow303

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 8:37:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 11:33:46 AM EDT by djenkins]
I'd get an Enfield 2A1 rather than trying to bastardize an existing rifle. They are around if you look a bit.

Dennis Jenkins



Originally Posted By lithgow303:
Gents-

As my name indicates, I'm a big fan of Enfields (with a particular affinity for one particular manufacturer...) of the .303 variety, but with .303 getting more difficult to find and my time for reloading .303 waning I was thinking of looking into getting a lee-enfield in .308, or converting one of the shooters I have in the closet to .308 as I have a pretty healthy stash of .308 for my M1A's...

As such, I was curious if anyone knew of any mfgr who is currently re-making enfields in .308 other than the Gibbs rifle? Or, if there are any .308 barrels for #4 rifles? I know that Numrich has barrels from Ishapore #2's available for the correct price, however I'm not sure if these would fit a #4 receiver, so if anyone has some info on whether those would fit a #4 receiver I'd appreciate it.

As always, thanks in advance!

Lithgow303


Link Posted: 12/7/2005 11:04:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 11:05:19 PM EDT by Galland]
A few years ago I read about plans to produce new Enfields in Australia. They were supposedly going to market models chambered for .308 and 7.62x39mm. I don't know what became of this marketing plan and I don't remember which company was going to do it. If Aussie surplus gun dealers imported Ishapore rifles as ours did, this likely wiped out the market niche for a .308 model.

I don't think it would be much trouble to find someone who wants to sell their Ishapore 7.62 NATO for the right price. The only caveat for you is that they're No.1 Mk.III pattern, not No.4. They're easy to spot at a gun show due to the boxy magazine.

www.davesguns.com/serverpics/UsedPage/Ishapore308Left-01.jpg

Galland
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 11:19:10 AM EDT
Why not leave it and get an Ishapore Enfield in .308 to begin with?
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 2:14:04 PM EDT
Far easier to convert to 7.62X54R. Ammo is dirt cheap and the conversion doesn't require buying anything.A .308 conversion would require a barrel,.308 extractor, and a .308 Enfield mag.NOT the same as the Ishapore 2A .308 mag.Converting to .308 really isn't cost effective.The 7.62X54R conversion all you require is cutting oil,rent a reamer,and some time.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 2:54:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MadBodhi:
Far easier to convert to 7.62X54R. Ammo is dirt cheap and the conversion doesn't require buying anything.A .308 conversion would require a barrel,.308 extractor, and a .308 Enfield mag.NOT the same as the Ishapore 2A .308 mag.Converting to .308 really isn't cost effective.The 7.62X54R conversion all you require is cutting oil,rent a reamer,and some time.



I have no knowledge of the Enfields other that than what I 've read.
Hopefully you guys will take this as an honest question.

When the 7.62X54R conversion is completed, can you expect the same accuracy of the .303?
Isn't the bullet size odd in the enfield? .311 or something?
Is the .303 bullet the same diameter as the bullet from the 7.64X54R?


mark
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:02:23 PM EDT
A 10rd 54R Enfield would be nice. Isn't .303 a 7.7mm?
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:05:57 PM EDT
Found this

still looking for more.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:09:30 PM EDT
Matt and Mark--To answer both your questions. The .303 British round usually mikes out at a .311 diameter, or 7.7 mm. Now, even though in US nomenclature the 7.62mm denotes a diameter of .308, in Soviet/Russian systems, the bullet diameter can and will vary between .308 and more often than not is slightly larger, along the lines of .310 or .311. So, using a 7.62x54R in an Enfield barrel wouldn't result in a grossly inaccurate rifle. It would work fairly well, as long as you had decent ammo. I like the idea, but I bet you could only fit 7-9 rounds of the Russian stuff because the rims are so much wider. Good luck on a cool sounding project.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:11:21 PM EDT
i got a crappy isapshore #1mk3 i will sell you if you don't want to ruin one of your rifles trying to convert it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 1:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 1:12:25 PM EDT by MadBodhi]
JPFO covers the conversion here. They actually experienced improved accuracy.It was discussed on the enfield forum of Surplusrifle.com and one of the guy's contacted the Smith in the JPFO article,I'll quote him,"OK heres the poop. The fellow who is here in Santa Fe, NM (and is out of Buss) says all you do is to re chamber the .303 chamber to the Russian caliber. Removing the barrel is not necessary. You use and extension on the reamer and use a constant flow of cutting oil. You head space using a bolt head that will close with some resistance for the last third of closure of the bolt. The slight jump into the rifling does not seem to matter. The heaver ball loads, like the Yellow tipped rounds shot very well for him. You want a bullet that is at least .311 to .312 in diameter. I'm going to try this on one of my rifles with a bad chamber to see if it is as easy to do as they say."

Apparently this conversion started with the NFA guy's converting Bren guns!!You can rent the reamer over the net from several sources.The mag will hold 9 instead of 10.But ,dirt cheap readily available ammo,improved accuracy,all wrapped up in the fastest combat bolt action in the world.And it's better looking than a moisin.What's not to love.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 1:21:50 PM EDT
About those Ishapore 2A .308 enfields.It's a No.1Mk3 type And I personally prefer the looks and micrometer sights of the No.4.But,I own one that I glassbedded (more like glued together,it was my first attempt at smithing) and let me tell you,those guns can shoot!!.It will go head to head with my N.M. M1a out to 200 before the better sights and trigger on the M1a shut it down.I wouldn't sell mine but then it's glued together and krylon painted tigerstripe .I don't think anyone would give me 20 bucks for it from looking at it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 1:46:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:
i got a crappy isapshore #1mk3 i will sell you if you don't want to ruin one of your rifles trying to convert it.



and I have an Ishapore 308 if you want that.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 2:30:35 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:56:42 AM EDT
Don't know that I would do the 308 conversion IIRC the Ishy's were built as 308's with speacial steels and heat treat to take the higher pressure. I have a jungle carbine version that shoots very well but others i know didn't have such good luck. Many chambers seem to be rough making bolt operation difficult. The 7.62X54 conversion sounds interesting to me have to look into that.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 2:05:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigdaddyG:
Don't know that I would do the 308 conversion IIRC the Ishy's were built as 308's with speacial steels and heat treat to take the higher pressure. I have a jungle carbine version that shoots very well but others i know didn't have such good luck. Many chambers seem to be rough making bolt operation difficult. The 7.62X54 conversion sounds interesting to me have to look into that.



While it is true what you state about the Ishapore .308 being made with better steel to take the .308. The No.4 is a beefier receiver,the Brits ,to my knowledge,only converted No.4 MK2 Fazakerley receivers while the Aussies had their No.4 actions proofed at an Armory (name escapes me) before converting.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:50:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MadBodhi:

Originally Posted By BigdaddyG:
Don't know that I would do the 308 conversion IIRC the Ishy's were built as 308's with speacial steels and heat treat to take the higher pressure. I have a jungle carbine version that shoots very well but others i know didn't have such good luck. Many chambers seem to be rough making bolt operation difficult. The 7.62X54 conversion sounds interesting to me have to look into that.



While it is true what you state about the Ishapore .308 being made with better steel to take the .308. The No.4 is a beefier receiver,the Brits ,to my knowledge,only converted No.4 MK2 Fazakerley receivers while the Aussies had their No.4 actions proofed at an Armory (name escapes me) before converting.



I'm sitting on one of the Fazakerley MK2 receivers which is where my interest in the project stemmed from, however I'm sensing this might be more work than its worth...

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:24:48 PM EDT
I had 2 Ishy #2A's.

Piss-poor accuracy with both (5" @ 100 yds).

I slugged the barrels, both mic'ed 0.311".

Apparently the Indians used the same machinery for both .303 & .308's.

Sold them both.

YMMV.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:20:02 AM EDT
Better idea
Get an L1A1 FAL rifle.
S.O.G. is selling them, or the G-3/Hk clone.
Both .308 cal.. I think the days are numbered for both of them.
All it will take is some poly getting a guncontrol bug up their ass-and
kiss um gone or pay extra for the items!
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