I just conducted this thread: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23007

Towards the bottom:

The US Secret Service are using the FN Five-SeveN Tactical. In fact, the Five-SeveN Tactical (a modified version of the 5-7 with a Picatinny rail and a few others minors modifications) was made from a request of the USSS.

I read that in the French guns magazine "Cibles" (issue Nr. 400 of July 2003).

You didn't tell me if your source said that NO Secret Service agents were using it; I just find it hard to believe that these many people are wrong when they're confident of this and FN is as well. There is also rumored to be a "Five-seveN USG" (US Government) model that is based on SS inputs that will be available to civilians and other units by the end of this year.

Quoted: I just conducted this thread: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23007 Towards the bottom: The US Secret Service are using the FN Five-SeveN Tactical. In fact, the Five-SeveN Tactical (a modified version of the 5-7 with a Picatinny rail and a few others minors modifications) was made from a request of the USSS. I read that in the French guns magazine "Cibles" (issue Nr. 400 of July 2003). You didn't tell me if your source said that NO Secret Service agents were using it; I just find it hard to believe that these many people are wrong when they're confident of this and FN is as well. There is also rumored to be a "Five-seveN USG" (US Government) model that is based on SS inputs that will be available to civilians and other units by the end of this year.

1.) Never trust the French.

2.) I've already said it once.  They have looked at the Five-Seven for a posible service pistol, but so far, no commitments have been made.  

3.) It is not logical for some people in a department to carry one pistol, and some people to carry another.  When government agencies like the SS or the FBI, or whoever, decide to get a new pistol, it's a department wide switch.  

4.) The gunworld is swamped with rumors.  Don't believe everything you read in those magazines.  

This is a strange argument. You still won't tell me if your source said that NO Secret Service agents were using it; your source could have been referring to a particular branch.

Also note that the French magazine the guy referred to in my link was the July 2003 issue, which is coincidentally the same year the SS supposedly adopted it.

And it is not a rumor, its a solid claim; If its coming from FN it is not a rumor. In fact, i'll send out an email to FN right now and ask them about it; I doubt they'll reply, but if they do, i'll post it here. You don't need to reply until I get the email.

Quoted: No, they're not. Plain and simple. I would check your source or where ever you got that notion from. My source is FN, and I doubt they have the guts to blatantly lie about someone using their weapons. What's your source that they aren't using it?

Me, I'm his source that it's not being used.  I've mentioned this to you in your other forums but since you know more about what I do than I do, I'm quite impressed with your powers.  If a company or organization 'looks' or 'asks' about a certain product, of course that company is going to milk that for all it's worth to get others to follow.  Whether that is fully accurate or not.  I'll say it again  229.

Hey buddy, you're wrong.  Just back away.  It's the 229.  Your misguided online source is wrong, the guy who told him is wrong and the guy that made it up and told him is wrong.  Go to the website, look at the FAQ for kids and read    229.  
No special guy who you don't really know has the 57.  Keep arguing this cause I'm laughing at you as are many other people that see you pushing this misinformation campaign.  Congratulation you have pics of the SS with the P90   wow so do half of DC's tourists.  Show me 1 legit pic of an officer or agent with the 57.  That's your challenge if you must continue this.  I've read your other posts (pleas for help) on this issue and you got nowhere looking for 'rock solid proof'.  So show me where it is you know more about what me and mine are doing than I do.  

Quoted: Hey buddy, you're wrong.  Just back away.  It's the 229.  Your misguided online source is wrong, the guy who told him is wrong and the guy that made it up and told him is wrong.  Go to the website, look at the FAQ for kids and read    229.   No special guy who you don't really know has the 57.  Keep arguing this cause I'm laughing at you as are many other people that see you pushing this misinformation campaign.  Congratulation you have pics of the SS with the P90   wow so do half of DC's tourists.  Show me 1 legit pic of an officer or agent with the 57.  That's your challenge if you must continue this.  I've read your other posts (pleas for help) on this issue and you got nowhere looking for 'rock solid proof'.  So show me where it is you know more about what me and mine are doing than I do.

  Hello, "Horse's Mouth"

This was posted by someone in my 'plea for help' thread on MilitaryPhotos.com:

the Five-seven IS used by the secret service.....my brother in law is a secret service agent so tell the dumb asses who think they know what they are talking about that YOU are correct.....standard issue side arm is the 357 sig with the sig 380 as back up....but the boys in the white house use P90s and carry the five-seven......oh and who ever thinks the gun is crap needs to actually fire one....it my LOOK like poo but handles awesome.....has hardly any kick...and i was making head shots all day at 50yrds EXTREMELY accurate.....tell the nonbelievers that JUST becouse it isnt posted on the web site doesnt mean they ARENT using them LOL

Who's laughing about whom now? Time for you to step down.

Quoted: This was posted by someone in my 'plea for help' thread on MilitaryPhotos.com: the Five-seven IS used by the secret service.....my brother in law is a secret service agent so tell the dumb asses who think they know what they are talking about that YOU are correct.....standard issue side arm is the 357 sig with the sig 380 as back up....but the boys in the white house use P90s and carry the five-seven......oh and who ever thinks the gun is crap needs to actually fire one....it my LOOK like poo but handles awesome.....has hardly any kick...and i was making head shots all day at 50yrds EXTREMELY accurate.....tell the nonbelievers that JUST becouse it isnt posted on the web site doesnt mean they ARENT using them LOL Who's laughing about whom now? Time for you to step down.

You're obviously going to believe whoever tells you that the secret service has the five-seven.  You've aleady been told by darknight that they don't have it, who would know better than anyone, and you still won't listen to reason.  Keep spreading your rumors and talking about things you don't know, because it obviously gives you some pleasure.  I tied to dispel your rumor, as I know they don't have the five-seven in operation, and darknight told you that he and nobody else there has the five-seven.  

You're last post has changed 2-3 times since I first read it.  You're obviously dwelling on this.  Get over it, it's the internet.  I was trying to be nice and clear up some misconseptions, but you seem unable to maintain a logical discussion.  Posting a quote from some guy who knows some guy offers no credibility.  As darknight said, show us something credible.  

You're obviously going to believe whoever tells you that the secret service has the five-seven.

hat

I tied to dispel your rumor, as I know they don't have the five-seven in operation, and darknight told you that he and nobody else there has the five-seven.

his

You're last post has changed 2-3 times since I first read it. You're obviously dwelling on this.

You've read through my post 2-3 times? You're the one dwelling on this.

I was trying to be nice and clear up some misconseptions, but you seem unable to maintain a logical discussion.

I am unable to maintain a logical discussion? You are arguing that an SS agent doesn't use it even though he is saying that he does!

Posting a quote from some guy who knows some guy offers no credibility.

I posted a quote from a guy whose brother-in-law is a SS agent and told him that they use it.

As darknight said, show us something credible.

A picture? If that guy hadn't jumped the fence at the WH, there wouldn't be any pics of the P-90 in use with the SS, but that does NOT mean they weren't using it. The 'kid's FAQ' does not say that they are using the P-90, yet they are. It is hard to find pictures of SS agents, and nearly impossible to find pictures of a pistol in use with someone, because the pistol never leaves the holster except for in training or rare instances. The real truth is that you will never admit that they are using it, whatever you hear (even from agents); you have absolutely NO logical reason to keep insisting that they aren't using it; the only reason you keep on is because you're too proud and immature to admit that you were wrong, so this argument is closed unless you can come up with solid proof that they aren't. (and by 'solid', I don't mean the 'kid's FAQ')

Quoted: You're obviously going to believe whoever tells you that the secret service has the five-seven. I cannot believe you still insist that they are not using it; I'm obviously going to believe an SS agent. You are claiming that this SS agent owns the gun and carries it yet he is wrong about them using it! I tied to dispel your rumor, as I know they don't have the five-seven in operation, and darknight told you that he and nobody else there has the five-seven. This SS agent is spreading spreading rumors about them using the Five-seveN. You're last post has changed 2-3 times since I first read it. You're obviously dwelling on this. You've read through my post 2-3 times? You're the one dwelling on this. I was trying to be nice and clear up some misconseptions, but you seem unable to maintain a logical discussion. I am unable to maintain a logical discussion? You are arguing that an SS agent doesn't use it even though he is saying that he does! Posting a quote from some guy who knows some guy offers no credibility. I posted a quote from a guy whose brother-in-law is a SS agent and told him that they use it. As darknight said, show us something credible. A picture? If that guy hadn't jumped the fence at the WH, there wouldn't be any pics of the P-90 in use with the SS, but that does NOT mean they weren't using it. The 'kid's FAQ' does not say that they are using the P-90, yet they are. It is hard to find pictures of SS agents, and nearly impossible to find pictures of a pistol in use with someone, because the pistol never leaves the holster except for in training or rare instances. The real truth is that you will never admit that they are using it, whatever you hear (even from agents); you have absolutely NO logical reason to keep insisting that they aren't using it; the only reason you keep on is because you're too proud and immature to admit that you were wrong, so this argument is closed unless you can come up with solid proof that they aren't. (and by 'solid', I don't mean the 'kid's FAQ')

I'll make it less sublte.  Darknight told you were he works and told you that they do not use that pistol.  You're taking the word of some guy on the internet who claims that his brother in law is an agent.  I'm going to believe a first hand account before I believe second hand information.  That's where logic comes in.  

Any tourist can get a picture of the officers at the white house with the P-90.  What you're not going to get is a picture of one of those guys with a five-seven on their belt.  Why? Because they don't have them.  One of them has already told you so.  

I read your post last night before I went to bed, but was too tired to usher a response.  When I checked it again today, you had added your tough guy response to Darknight.  That's the change I was referring to.  

I've also tried to explain to you the complete lack of logic behind some of them having the five-seven and the rest having the 229.  Large squared away departments, such as the secret service, do not issue different sidearms to different people.  They issue one sideearm that they place their full confidence in, and don't change that until they are more confident in another sideearm.  When you "try out" a certain firearm for duty use, you don't have people carry it for a time and give you feed back.  You shoot the hell out of it on the range and put it through a battery of tests.  If it passes your "litmus" test ,then you issue it to all of your officers.  This is how federal agencies operate.  Another theory behind this is that if your officers are engaged in a fire fight, you want to be able to share extra mags with others who may be out of rounds.  If you have two different sidearms in your department, this will make that impossible.  It will make it even more difficult it the caliber of ammo is different.

I'm satisified with you not believing me from here on out.  I've tried to help clear things up, and even had Darknight chime in.  Neither of us are going to budge, it would seem, but I would encourage you to question your source and the crediblity of his claims.  That's for you and him to clear up.  I know Darknight personaly, and know what and where he does his thing.  That's why I'm letting all my chips ride on his info.  

It's not my intention to make enemies here.  

Quoted: You're obviously going to believe whoever tells you that the secret service has the five-seven. I cannot believe you still insist that they are not using it; I'm obviously going to believe an SS agent. You are claiming that this SS agent owns the gun and carries it yet he is wrong about them using it! Um.... cause  I KNOW, and no you obviously don't.  I interview people all the time that think they are SS and their nut fell further from the tree than yours did. You're last post has changed 2-3 times since I first read it. You're obviously dwelling on this. You've read through my post 2-3 times? You're the one dwelling on this. Look you wannabe, move on with your life, what is it you do that you're so up on this?  YOU ARE WRONG!!!  Show me pictures, not somebody that says their 'brother-in-law' thinks he's an agent I was trying to be nice and clear up some misconseptions, but you seem unable to maintain a logical discussion. I am unable to maintain a logical discussion? You are arguing that an SS agent doesn't use it even though he is saying that he does! Look you don't even know the guy, or anyone close.  The closest person to you that's trying to help you seems unable to pass muster with your all knowing self.  By the way, will I be getting more than a 4% pay increase with FY2005? Posting a quote from some guy who knows some guy offers no credibility. I posted a quote from a guy whose brother-in-law is a SS agent and told him that they use it. OOOh a 'quote', that really equals a guy who knows some guy and offers us no real credibility.  More points for BigJ491 As darknight said, show us something credible. A picture? If that guy hadn't jumped the fence at the WH, there wouldn't be any pics of the P-90 in use with the SS, but that does NOT mean they weren't using it. The 'kid's FAQ' does not say that they are using the P-90, yet they are. It is hard to find pictures of SS agents, and nearly impossible to find pictures of a pistol in use with someone, because the pistol never leaves the holster except for in training or rare instances. The real truth is that you will never admit that they are using it, whatever you hear (even from agents); you have absolutely NO logical reason to keep insisting that they aren't using it; the only reason you keep on is because you're too proud and immature to admit that you were wrong, so this argument is closed unless you can come up with solid proof that they aren't. (and by 'solid', I don't mean the 'kid's FAQ')

You're missing the proposition, we were talking about the 57 not the P90.  There's all manner of cool kit out there you've never even seen in your wet-dreams.  Not all gets on the website.  Pics in a holster are hard to get, I mean with all those uniformed police at the WH with gun belts.  

No logical reason??  haha   he's seen more than you buddy.  And closed it shall be, however YOU were the one that was asked to support YOUR claim.  Why don't you step up to the challenge of your dillusion and show real proof.  I've got all the solid proof I need, I'll show you mine you've got nothing on me.  So, alright then smart guy.  Enjoy your dillusions.  

I'll make it less sublte. Darknight told you were he works and told you that they do not use that pistol.

Darknight never said that he patrols the WH; thats what I want to know. I've asked over and over. If that is where he operates (with the guys using the P-90), I'll probably believe him.

Any tourist can get a picture of the officers at the white house with the P-90. What you're not going to get is a picture of one of those guys with a five-seven on their belt. Why? Because they don't have them.

I just looked through every SS picture (20+ pages) they have on gettyimages.com and could not find ANY pistol in any of them except for one; going by your logic, the SS wouldn't be using a sidearm. See how that doesn't work?

When I checked it again today, you had added your tough guy response to Darknight.

If you look at the post, I edited it 11 minutes after I posted it; not a big deal, but you should check on those things before telling me that i'm "obviously dwelling on this".

If it passes your "litmus" test ,then you issue it to all of your officers.

Here is why I think it makes sense for the SS to be using the Five-seveN:

1. Ammo commonality with the P-90
2. Normal ammo is useless against an armored opponent if he's wearing body armor; this was supposedly a large reason the SS adopted the P-90
3. Its a great gun (see the comment from the guy in my link); 20 rounds, no recoil, very light, very accurate, AP ability, etc.

You have to admit that it IS logical that the SS be using it.

Neither of us are going to budge, it would seem, but I would encourage you to question your source and the crediblity of his claims. That's for you and him to clear up.

I have argued thus far with you and your source; you have argued with me, but its time for you to ask my source instead of doubting his credibility on a different forum. Get a membership at MilitaryPhotos.com (preferably darknight, not BigJ) and ask him; ask him why his brother-in-law would lie about the weapon he carries. You know where to find the thread.

Show me pictures, not somebody that says their 'brother-in-law' thinks he's an agent

If this brother-in-law is lying about his status, what's to say that you aren't? (Yes, I know you are what you claim to be, but what I mean is that he is no less credible than you)

You're missing the proposition, we were talking about the 57 not the P90.

Here is what I meant: you cannot refer to the 'kid's FAQ' because it does not list the P90.

Not all gets on the website.

That is my point exactly.






When you (darknight) first posted on this, I changed my mind about this; I believed you about the Five-seveN not being in use with the SS. But right before I replied, I saw the post from the guy on MilitaryPhotos.com and now i'm not so sure you're right. Here is the question: are you in with the guys guarding the WH? (the ERT guys that use the P-90) If you are, there will be no argument left on my side and I will no longer believe the SS are using it; If you aren't, I will keep insisting on this and you will have to talk to my source; just because you are SS does not mean that you know more about other branches (the ERT who use the P-90) than this brother-in-law does.

Lighten up in the meantime. BigJ491 just said that his intention was not to make enemies, and you're supposed to agree with everything he says.

Read the below post from a member at 1911forum.com:

For all concerned. Based on U. S. Secret Service inputs, there is now a 5.7 U. S. Government (USG) . Basically, they pointed out the deficiencies in the controls. I'm not sure if that will be available to the public due LE demand at this time. I have it on good authority that most if not all of the 5.7's weaknesses have been improved.

Doesn't sound like a typical gun rumor to me.

Why is it that I'm to agree with everything BigJ posts?  Yeah ammo commonality is a big deal.  That's why many SS have the new 12 gauge pistols to go with the 870 pump gun.  Their great, 100% accuracy.  
Guy I'm not looking to be any more argumentative than the next guy however, knowing you are wrong I find it terribly funny to entice the ignorant.  
Oh and to further tear down your wall of fasle statements, where did you ask me "over and over" about what I do?  

To get away from the flame war, has anyone in the rather substantial dealer community on this forum who has attended the various industry confrencees have anything to add to this thread in reguards to when we might see the civillianized P90 that Fabrique Nationale has admitted to developing. That would be one fun gun with it's post ban 50 round mag.


I was thinking since it will have to have a longer barrle if they just expand the whole gun latterally so that the magazine is longer to math the barrle for a 60 or 70 round capacity?

GREAT THREAD - man that subgun is TINY.

Bring on the pics!  

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/MolonLabe/bad_dude.jpg

Fagots?  Whatever...just trying to dispel rumors that are being spread...since nobody else had the real answer, we've ponied up...

i was in DC in May and saw no FN pistols in use by the uniformed SS.

Quoted: Bring on the pics!

I put up a new SS picture on the first page; the caption:

A member of the U.S. Secret Service, carrying a submachine gun, patrols the North Lawn of the White House December 1, 2003 in Washington, DC.

Quoted: I was thinking since it will have to have a longer barrle if they just expand the whole gun latterally so that the magazine is longer to math the barrle for a 60 or 70 round capacity?

Math time. The P-90 is 20 inches long; so if it holds 50 rounds for each 20 inches long (which = 5 rounds for every 2 inches long), that means that adding 6 inches to the barrel (the current barrel is 10") would mean about 15 more rounds; (65 rounds total hock.gif) BUT only if FN decides to lengthen the whole gun. I'm curious to know more details about this gun.

If anyone else has more pics of the P-90 in use to benefit the thread, post them. I've posted all of mine, but i'll keep an eye out for new ones.

Just saw that chick with the P90, I didnt notice all the gear they carry until that pic.  Thats gotta be one fun job, Ive got no doubt its tough getting to work GWB's front yard.

It was mentioned by an FN rep this past week that they may be coming out with a civilian version of the P90.  If this has already been mentioned I digress.  I have no other info than this and will try to give more when it comes available.  Don't know if this rep knew what he was talking about, but maybe.

BIll3508

Man, if they ever do come out with a civvie version of the FN P90, I'd be all over it like white on rice!

My email to FN about who are using the Five-seveN and P-90 has received a reply:

I will forward on your request to FNH-USA Headquarters

Keep this thread bumped and I will post all the users mentioned in the email. In the meantime, I think i'll bug FN with questions about this SA P-90.

HOW DO GET ONE OF THOSE DARTH VADER HELMETS????

Quoted: HOW DO GET ONE OF THOSE DARTH VADER HELMETS???? img64.exs.cx/img64/4594/trente0067.jpg

Modern day samurai. hippie.gif

I agree that a civvie P-90 would be awesome.  Anyone have any more info on it, or is it just a rumor?

Will

Quoted: I agree that a civvie P-90 would be awesome.  Anyone have any more info on it, or is it just a rumor? Will

From p99guy:

Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

I looked for Sept 6th, but only found the 13th.  I was late, and web links?

tagged for later...

Quoted: After looking up the specs (and converting from mm, argh) it looks like a P90 semi with at least 6'' (6.5'' to be safe) added barrel will meet required overall length and 16'' barrel length # Caliber: 5.7x28mm SS190 # Weight: 2.54 kg empty; 3 kg loaded with magazine with 50 rounds # Length: 500 mm = 19.685'' # Barrel length: 263 mm = more than 10'' # Rate of fire: 900 rounds per minute # Magazine capacity: 50 rounds # Effective range: 200 meters Which means it, if im not mistaken, would have an added civvie barrel that is less idiot-looking than the added length on Spechul Wepuns MP5s. I think this thing has potential... if they keep the price under $1200 and made ammo more readilly available, i think it could be a keeper. - BUCC_Guy

with such a short barrel my guess is that the P90 is a VERY CQB weapon. As such what value are optics at that range?
Plus what does the 5.7 x 28mm round relate to in lay terms? comparable to what- rifle cartridge, handgun cartridge?

answered my own questions

The 5.7x28mm weapon system is comprised of three components: the 5.7x28mm ammunition, the P90 Sub-machine gun, and the Five-seveN handguns. The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) rifle ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in a close combat situation or urban warfare. The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. This design virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration. This also creates a large wound cavity and quick incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90 and achieve the same result up to 50 meters with the Five-seveN handgun. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90 and 2,133fps with the Five-seveN. Tracer, Sub Sonic, Training and Blank ammunition available. Ammunition is supplied in the U.S. by Olin

From FN USA



and

and their model F2000


and shown with grenade launcher below

Quoted: with such a short barrel my guess is that the P90 is a VERY CQB weapon. As such what value are optics at that range? Plus what does the 5.7 x 28mm round relate to in lay terms? comparable to what- rifle cartridge, handgun cartridge?

In semi auto fire the gun is still very accurate, and in full auto its very controllable because of the small round.  The optics are not to increase its accuracy per se, but to provide for faster sighting in a CQB situation.  If you've ever used an EOtech or Aimpoint you'll understand.  There is no zoom on the factory optics, they are there to help you aim faster, not necessarily more accurately.  Newer versions of the gun dispose of the factory optics altogether and you can put a CQB optic of your choice on the top picatinny rail.  All versions have factory ambidextrous iron sights anyway.  The cartridge feels alot like shooting a .22 magnum, its barely even there in terms of recoil.  Of course, .22 mag doesn't go through ballistic vests.  

I think for armored threats the cartridge is great, and for unarmored threats it is a poor choice.  Once the round punches through the armor it deforms, yaws, or even splinters and wound trauma is dramatic, but without armor I think it tends to make a big temporary cavity but really just drill a .22 caliber hole in you.  Of course you can make the exact same criticism of a G36C or AR15 shorty CQB setup with a 10 inch barrel and 5.56 NATO ammo, since the ammo doesn't reach enough velocity to fragment with such a short barrel (again, unless it hits armor first).  It should be noted that a comparable AR15 or G36 setup will not be as controllable, will not be as compact, and will not have more than 30 rounds at the ready unless you opt for the heavy, bulky and sometimes tempermental Beta C mag.

I think the P90 is a good tool to add to the toolbox.  It is not a wonder gun that can do all things, nor is it a useless pile of crap.  Metaphorically its alot like that fancypants socket extension in my toolbox that I use to get to the exhaust bolts deep in my car's engine.  It can't do as many things as a good old crescent wrench (AK47 perhaps?), but for certain situations it does get the job done faster and with less risk of damaging my car.  If I could only have one tool it wouldn't be the socket extension, but it still fulfills a necessary need in my garage.

P.S. Here's a 5 minute MS Paint job of what a 16" barrel might look like on a possible civilian legal P90.  Potentially I don't think it would look dumb at all.



And here is a vid taken from a recent Missouri Defensive Carbine Club shoot.  You'll have to right click and save the file to your harddrive for the video to work.

www.imagestation.com/video/view.html?id=4195601179&dl=1

You can hear us laughing in the background because MODCC rules for that shoot required 10 rounds of ammo only in the first magazine, so everyone would have to reload somewhere during the course of fire.  Because of the rate of fire, John only gets to light up one target before reloading.  Note that with practice the reload really isn't that bad (he insists that he flubbed this reload but I don't think so, it looks quick to me).  Also, you'll notice that the last target John engages is a white "pepper popper" steel plate at about 20 yards away.  You engage the falling plate last; when it falls, that signals the scorekeeper to stop the time for the round.  This time the plate did not fall, but it had four 5.7 mm holes drilled right through it.  I believe the plate was made of three-quarter inch mild steel.  So the whole part about the round being armor piercing is certainly not bullshit.

Note the absolute controllability in full auto fire.  You might be able to dispute the stopping power of one round of 5.7 ammunition, but in real life CQB I don't think many "tangos" would get off so easily.  10 rounds to the head will put down anyone.

Your link dont work, try a different server.  I wanna see the P90 shooting, I like videos.

Quoted: Your link dont work, try a different server.  I wanna see the P90 shooting, I like videos.

I'm pretty sure it works.  Right click with your mouse, then choose "Save Target As..." and download it to a place on your harddrive, such as "My Documents".  If you just doubleclick on it the link will not work because Imagestation doesn't allow streaming of videos from their servers.

Quoted: Quoted: Your link dont work, try a different server.  I wanna see the P90 shooting, I like videos. I'm pretty sure it works.  Right click with your mouse, then choose "Save Target As..." and download it to a place on your harddrive, such as "My Documents".  If you just doubleclick on it the link will not work because Imagestation doesn't allow streaming of videos from their servers.

Worked for me. Nice video. I thought that P-90 pic you made was real.

Anyway, the wound channel of the 5.7mm is even greater on an unarmored opponent than on an armored opponent. I don't think anyone is arguing that its more powerful than .40 or .45, but its definitely on par with 9mm. But here is why the Five-seveN and P-90 are great weapons:

Less recoil
Lighter weapon weight
Lighter cartridge weight (1/2 as heavy as 9mm; this is very good if you're a pilot carrying the gun as a PDW with alot of ammo)
Flatter trajectory (not a big benefit in most situations, but still a benefit)
AP ability
Very accurate
Very high capacity

I think these weapons have alot to offer for certain groups.

SPACEBALLS!!! lol

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/ChewyLittleguy/spaceballsman.jpg SPACEBALLS!!! lol

The P-90 actually looks futuristic enough to fit that pic.

EDIT: Duke Nukem, the FN P-90 promotional video I posted a few pages back shows an FN rep reload a P-90 really quickly; he goes through 3 magazines. Definitely worth a download nf9648, if your connection can handle it.

Ok, I didnt know about the right click and save trick, guess Im not so up to speed with computers.  Ill check for the other video also, the guy running through the course outside was pretty good.  I think rate of fire and controllability should be enough to sell the P90, and to think I once wanted a Glock 18.

Quoted: Ok, I didnt know about the right click and save trick, guess Im not so up to speed with computers.  Ill check for the other video also, the guy running through the course outside was pretty good.  I think rate of fire and controllability should be enough to sell the P90, and to think I once wanted a Glock 18.

No problem about the vid, glad it worked for you.  I've shot both the P90 and the Glock 18.  The P90 is the only subgun in my experience that is more controllable than a full size HK Mp5.  The Mp5 is still my ultimate subgun, its just a fantastic weapon, but honestly the P90 is more controllable.  

The Glock 18 is the perfect firearm for a gunfight inside a telephone booth.  They are fun as hell though-- hold on tight!

DmL5:  I downloaded the video from earlier in the thread, it was way cool.  I have more gun vids on my puter than I can easily count.  Have you made it to one of our MODCC shoots in Columbia, MO yet?  You could shoot a P90 or Mp5 if you want to, check out the Hometown forums!

Here's where we have the shoots:

www.cmmginc.com

Incidentally these are the same guys that are taking a bunch of my money next month to totally revamp my M4gery AR15 to "no-ban" status.  They rock!

Quoted: DmL5:  I downloaded the video from earlier in the thread, it was way cool.  I have more gun vids on my puter than I can easily count.  Have you made it to one of our MODCC shoots in Columbia, MO yet?  You could shoot a P90 or Mp5 if you want to, check out the Hometown forums!

Columbia, MO? That's only 1.5 hours from where I live! I'm currently much too busy to consider it, but its definitely a future possibility.

If you have any more video's shooting the P-90, go ahead and post them.

Quoted: Be sure and pick up the sept.6 issue of shotgun news thats on the shelves now...it has a write up on the P90/FN57 also alludes to FN is working on a civy P90(a 16"barrel semi auto carbine P90) for the U.S. market as well as a ultra short action bolt gun in5.7x28mm

I'm going to be in Herstal on Tuesday and Wednesday next week, and I'm going to find out if this is true or not.

Regards,
Clint

I can't find the caption, because I found this a while back and kept it. Its a weapon cache found in Iraq--I believe it was toward the end of the "war". The suppressed P-90 is in the right side of the pile. Interesting that Saddam WAS keeping a WMD.

I wonder how he got ahold of it.

That wouldve been a huge temptation to me to try and smuggle that back through customs, too bad I wasnt the one to find it.

My 9 year old son last weekend enjoying the P90

whoa!!!  lucky kid!

The day they make a civvie one of those, I'm freakin buyin it. I'm saving empties now and startin a paper route to pay for it.