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Posted: 12/7/2003 3:57:20 AM EDT
What is the smallest, lightest, most reliable little spit wad out there? Candidate must have more then 3 rounds, no deringers. Hopefully moving to a free state, just awaiting the word from the, hopefully, new job.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:32:24 AM EDT
I'd likely go with a Baby Browning for small, though I prefer the Seecamp and NAA Guardian 32s due to their small size and more potent caliber. There's also the Kel-Tec P32 though it suffers a little in the reliability department until it's completely broken in.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:43:51 AM EDT
It is very possible to get one that is Too small. I will conceed that the gun you have is better than the one you don't, but there are very few times / places where a lightweight .38 snub revolver will not do fine...and give you a much better, more reliable pistol for your purposes.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 8:13:17 AM EDT
I agree. The snub nose .38 is still king in my book for a concealable, reliable pocket pistol. That said, if you really want ultra small auto, the Seecamp would be my choice.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 8:18:46 AM EDT
My two favorite candidates for pocket pistols are the Colt Detective Special and the SiG 230 in the alloy frame. The SiG, in particular, is scary accurate as well as reliable.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 9:24:04 AM EDT
Wouldn't a snub-nose .38 be as inaccurate as a blind person firing an AK?

I mean, if you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator, I can see a snubby .38 saving the day...but at ranges beyond that?

Link Posted: 12/7/2003 9:28:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Wouldn't a snub-nose .38 be as inaccurate as a blind person firing an AK?

I mean, if you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator, I can see a snubby .38 saving the day...but at ranges beyond that?





some ridiculous percentage of encounters occur at 3 yards or less. THe distance decreases every year. Thats an FBI number btw.

What about a S&W Airlight in .357, you could load that with .38's too.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:33:26 AM EDT
I have a guardian .32 and can't recommend it for reliability although others have shot it with no problems. For the most reliable pocket gun there is no question, a S&W J frame revolver.

Any kind of automatic in a small form factor with .32 or above ammo is an engineering challenge to make reliable IMO.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:51:33 AM EDT
If you have big pocket a Makarov can't be beat.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:47:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Wouldn't a snub-nose .38 be as inaccurate as a blind person firing an AK?

I mean, if you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator, I can see a snubby .38 saving the day...but at ranges beyond that?




I've hit a standard silouette (how do you spell that? The man looking target!) at 100yds with my 2" Colt Detectvie Special. Not all six rounds mind you, but getting three of them into the guy at that range impressed me enough. The misses were close enough to send a guy for cover, and before anyone says the rounds would bounce off his shirt or something, one of them certainly had enough power to get through the wooden target stand.

I've seen guys regularly pop 2-liter soda bottles at 100yds with handguns all the time.

The reason is they actually practice at longer ranges. Most people practice at 7yds (where you really do need to practice) or out to 25yds at the most. Try 100yds one time, you'll be suprised. Once you get the elevation figured out, you can rain lead a long way off.

Ross
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:45:06 AM EDT
Many people here won't agree with me, but I like my Glock 36. .45 cal in a really small package.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:29:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Wouldn't a snub-nose .38 be as inaccurate as a blind person firing an AK?

I mean, if you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator, I can see a snubby .38 saving the day...but at ranges beyond that?




Well, I and several others used to shoot at 50yd. with both S&W and Colt 2in. .38 snubbies back when we had eyes and the little guns, while very sensitive to grip and sight alignment, will damn sure win you some beer money if you take time to learn them. There is a great deal of difference between how "accurate" a firearm / ammo combination actually IS and how well a shooter can actually hit with it. The snub IS more difficult to hit with than a good .380 like the Sig, but it is, in my opinion, both much more reliable and, hands down, more powerful. it is also a "simpler" system for a non-shooter to use and understand, and, often our significant others are not "shooters".
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:28:08 AM EDT
What about a colt MK IV gov .380
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:32:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 12:23:12 AM EDT by Lumpy196]


No external hammer to snag.

Double action safe, so I dont mind dumping it in a pocket.

Doesnt depend on the force of the round to cycle it - this can be a problem if you are forced to shoot it weakhand or with a wounded arm. It goes bang 5x5 everytime, and shoots minute-of-face.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 5:10:00 PM EDT
I have the glock 30 and was looking into the 36 but was thinking smaller. Airlight and snubnose revolvers is what I grew up on and I own a crome model S&W 357 snub. I did not know there was 1911 style mini pistols in 380. Any one have a link where I could find a new one?
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 6:34:06 PM EDT
My choice for when I just cant carry but I have to. Its a "belly gun".

Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:28:12 PM EDT
I've owned a bunch of them. The most reliable semi-auto pocket gun was the Beretta 950BS .25ACP. My Beretta 21A. 22LR is both larger and less reliable.

A good concealed hammer S&W 5-shot revolver really is the best choice for pocket carry.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:30:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Wouldn't a snub-nose .38 be as inaccurate as a blind person firing an AK?



Nope. 2" revolvers can be as accurate as their 6" big brothers. I have a S&W 442 that really thinks its a PPC pistol. There are professional exibition shooters who can hit golf balls at 100-yards with a snubby. The guns are capable if the shooter is.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:54:39 PM EDT
Hey ar15fan I see you have a tripod mounted TOW launcher. I played with that guy for 8 years. Unfortunetly my only live missile was a dud. The second engine didn't go off on the missile and it tumbled after launch. Big dissapointment. I have an ancient berreta in 22 short but was looking for more fire power then that. Great little thing though.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 11:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
There are professional exibition shooters who can hit golf balls at 100-yards with a snubby.



Id pay money to see that.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:45:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:13:37 PM EDT
Having not enough gun itself can ruin your mental state in a tough situation. Many advise 38 as a minimum for good reason. A snubby along with some basic muscle memory and carry dicipline makes a real good spitwad, and spitter.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:44:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 9:49:44 PM EDT by 1911Shootist]
Lumpy has the correct answer. Is that a Bodyguard?

Anybody that carries a Glock (or similar pistol) in their pocket is nuts. It's just a matter of time before they shoot themselves in the crotch. The whole point to a pocket pistol is to be able to deploy and fire it without removing it from concealment. Otherwise, just carry a 1911 in a holster.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 11:02:10 PM EDT
S&W 642 Airweight Centenial.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:13:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
S&W 642 Airweight Centenial.



Up late are we Lump?

night shift?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:15:59 AM EDT
Just got home a bit ago...
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:16:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 12:19:09 AM EDT by GackMan]
for reliability the revolver is hard to beat.

as others have said, 5 shot .38 or .357 would be a fine pocket pistol.

If you are looking at an auto and want somethign tiny look at the keltec p32 or PAT 3.

Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:58:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 6:59:03 AM EDT by patrickcudd]
I must disagree with Troy about the Beretta Tomcat being unpleasant to shoot. Mine is very accurate, and actually is fun to shoot. It fits fine in the pocket of shorts, or loose jeans. But, if you are looking for the ultimate in small size with multiple shots, that you can conceal in about anything but your birthday suit, look at the line of North American Mini-Revolvers. Not much in the accurace department nor knockdown power, but it fits rule #1 in a gunfight....HAVE GUN.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:27:16 AM EDT
Though I haven`t fired a whole lot of pocket pistols, I`d have to say the Sig 232. Cause its my carry gun.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:14:59 PM EDT
Thank you for the replys. I have found the two kel-tec forums and see that the p32 and p3at have a lot of problems especially the p3at. My FFL recomended the sig p230, but the p232 looks good to. Any one have a p32 or p3at that could tell me a yea or nay? It looks like it is a hit or miss when it comes to these pistols. I do own many glocks so a little bug like glock would be nice to have. The airweight 357 revolver looks good to.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:31:46 PM EDT
Take a look at the Titanium Taurus's in .38 special. Cheaper then the S&W w/a Lifetime warantee.

The super lightweights are no fun in .357-Lotsa folks that have them just dont practice enuf because of the recoil.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:51:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Section_Leader:
Any one have a p32 or p3at that could tell me a yea or nay?



I bought a P32 about 2-3 years ago and love it. I've only fed it FMJs but have used Rem/UMCs, Winchester white box and Fiocchis and haven't any any type of mechanical problems (this is without any "fluff and buff", too). Must have close to 2K rounds through it by now and have had absolutely zero FTF, FTX or FTEs. No rimlock, either, but I've heard that's mostly a OA-length problem with HPs.

The gun is very compact, very lightweight, very concealable and generally pleasant to shoot. Controlled pairs are very easy. Accuracy is good *for its intended purpose* although the sights are negligible.

I tend to only carry it when it's too hot for anything more than a pair of shorts or when I absolutely cannot be seen carrying (I occasionally contract @ IBM - weapons are grounds for immediate and unceremonious ass-tossing). I am *very* aware of the caliber limitations and think ammo's generally overpriced (which pisses me off - I like to practice with my carry guns).

I don't personally know anyone else that has one so I don't know if I just got lucky or what. However, I'm very happy with mine within the parameters above. Guess that makes me a "yea". Hope it helps.

Oh, yeah. Any time *except* 100+ degrees and/or IBM, I stick with my Kahr MK9. Probably too big/heavy for what you're looking at but I'm very happy with it and they *do* make a polymer-lower version.

Good luck on the job, the move and the gun choice!
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 6:32:10 AM EDT
I carried a Kel-Tec P32 on my ankle as a backup for around a year. I never had any problems with it functioning. I did not do the "fluff and buff" either. I had shot it approx. 1000 rounds before I sold it to get it's big brother, the Kel-Tec P11. The P11 is just barely too big to carry on my ankle, but I make do and carry it every day. I've been very happy with Kel-Tec's guns. Now if I could just talk the wife into a folding rifle.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:05:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:49:43 AM EDT
Depending on pocket size, a Glock 26, a Taurus .38 snub or when wearing shorts and a T shirt, a NAA Black Widow .22 mag revolver are my choices.
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