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Posted: 11/19/2003 2:51:59 PM EDT
taking into consideration that gun laws are becoming more and more restrictive , i was wondering which 7.62x51 weapon , would be easy to get parts for including mags , and which are the most reliable as far as feeding and mechanical breaks ?
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 2:59:20 PM EDT
fal, fal, and fal!
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 3:16:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
fal, fal, and fal!

Link Posted: 11/19/2003 5:25:54 PM EDT
I third that: fal, fal, and fal!
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:20:19 PM EDT
Ok, I will be the odd man out and suggest HK G3 (or a CETME if you don't mind messing with it a bit) There are also the .308 VEPRs. If you got the money then try a M14 or a AR10.
All have a fairly decent reputation and if you want to have a bit of fun be sure to ask which is better, the M14 or the FAL...
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:05:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 8:06:29 PM EDT by cnatra]
FAL

www.dsarms.com

maybe an M1A or AR10 but...

FAL would be my 1st choice
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 10:49:22 PM EDT
M14....anything else is uncivilized!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 10:55:12 PM EDT
M14 all the way.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:52:30 AM EDT
My vote goes to the M14, but a close second is the G3.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:13:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 6:11:29 PM EDT
FAL.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 8:58:58 PM EDT
ok , lets say i go with the sa 58 bull barrel with picatinny scope mount and a decent scope , will they shoot moa ? whats the trigger like ? is the trigger adjustable ?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:56:09 PM EDT
Well, I went with the SA58 med. contour with DSA scope mount. Unfortunatly I haven't had the $$$ to purchase optics yet, but the scope mount is solid. The trigger wasn't that great at first, but after some shooting and dry firing, it is pretty good. Not the best, but more than adequate. I am not aware of any adjustable triggers out there. As far as accuracy, with port surplus I usually group about 2" from field positions at 100 yards. I have not shot off of the bench or used match ammo, but I suspect that it would perform even better. Also remember that the iron sights on the FAL, while functional, aren't as precise and have more play than those on a M1A or AR-10 (someone is supposedly going to remedy this - I saw a picture of a new rear sight on the FAL files). A good scope seems to make the FAL group a lot better from what I have read on these forums and on the FAL files. As far as parts availability, reliability, and mags, the FAL is #1.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:57:36 PM EDT
Will they shoot MOA? With MATCH ammo and proper barrel break in, yes they will. With military surplus ammo they will still shoot very well, but if you want MOA you'll have to pony up for the good stuff. And remember no commercial .308 Winchester, it must be loaded to 7.62x51 spec.

What's the trigger like? Single stage, non adjustable, maybe 3 lbs, breaks very clean.

These are main battle rifles and were designed as such. If you want a sniper's rifle than buy a sniper's rifle, but don't buy an MBR and call it a sniper's rifle or expect it to shoot like one. That being said, my FAL is my favorite of all my long guns and is the one that I would take into battle if my ass was truly on the line. I prefer it over the G3/HK91 series and would prefer it over the M14/M1a series even if the mags for those guns didn't run almost $50 each.

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:44:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 8:17:31 AM EDT by superde]
I have a DSA SA58 carbine. With a leupold scope on it, it will shoot 1/2"-3/4" groups off a bench with GMM 155's.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 7:41:27 AM EDT
Uh, lets see......FAL!
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:31:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 6:32:06 AM EDT by ikor]
Has anyone mentioned a FAL?
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:54:12 AM EDT
Hmmm, well I own 3 of the mentioned rifles.

I have the closest to a sniper rifle in a 308 semi-auto made here:



I have a civvie version of the M14 that has been accurized and worked by a master M14 smith here:



And then a plain jane DSA FAL here:



The pros and cons of these 3 rifles are:

AR10 -
PROS: excellent optics platform and out of the box accuracy. Sub MOA using Match grade ammo is easy. With homeloads I am sure .75 MOA can be achieved. Simple maintanance since I am familiar with ARs/M16s.

CONS: mag problems, mag expenses, and available spare parts would make me leary of this one as choice for a MBR even in a different configuration. Lack of track record in real world. A bit ammo sensitive.

Verdict: This is a really cool range rifle and tack driver. If you try to make it something else let me know how it turns out.

M14/M1A -
PROS: Everyone loves to shoot these. With iron sights it will outshoot either of the others listed here. Assuming of course you have accurized the rifle. Excellent track record of reliability and real world use as MBR. Available and cheap parts (beginning to change now). Simple maintenance.

CONS: In my personal opinion (shared by many) this is a platform not suited to optics. I won't go into detail just suffice it that it is a pain in the ass to do. Recoil is heavy. And, believe it or not, of the three accuracy is the worst if it isn't properly accurized and maintained. All those trophies at Camp Perry were won with specially worked rifles. No big wonder ARs rule there now.

Verdict: And excellent platform for a MBR. Just don't expect it to be a tack driver or to give you MOA accuracy without special mods and maintanance (read annual bedding of the stock).

FAL -
PROS: Very reliable and proven MBR design. Very low maintanance and tons of spare parts and cheap magazines (like $5 each versus $40 each for the other rifles maybe). A decent enough platform for optics. Many options and choices.

CONS: Not a tack driver. Again, this is a MBR and asking a MBR to shoot MOA is not reasonable IMO. Weak iron sights. Trigger not as good as the other two (smooth).

Verdict: The best choice for a MBR.

YMMV.

Oh, the AR10 and M1A could both be bought it you are interested. I'll keep the FAL thanks.

Link Posted: 11/25/2003 1:24:39 PM EDT
lots of good input , but now i'll have to sahke it up and decide , thanks .
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:02:37 PM EDT
I'd say an HK51!
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 11:21:35 AM EDT
since you mentioned HK's if i had about $20k to spare my first choice would be:



i guess you could cut the price in half if you could find a semi version,but why the hell would anybody pay $10k for a semi hk21?
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 2:59:38 PM EDT
Considering your criteria about a) another ban looming and b)cheap mags, the resounding answer has to be a FAL.

The M1A is a nicer rifle IMHO but even with a potential nationwide CA style ban on AW you will still be able to get your hands on an M1A. Second the mags of the M1A will run you anywhere from $35 - 70!
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 8:26:24 AM EDT
For a good FAL, A DSA FAL, you are talking about the same price as a M1A or AR-10.

I would choose the M1A first and did.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:22:39 AM EDT
One more vote for FAL...
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:38:03 AM EDT
One vote for the M1A. It is the first rifle I have ever shot.

The FAL is a good rifle but it does not fit me well. Try an both and decide.



max
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:56:34 AM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:02:03 PM EDT
Well, what did you get ?
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 3:21:08 PM EDT
well right now i'm in between the M1 Garand and the FAL . but niether will be until sometime next year , just trying to wiegh the pro's and cons of owners to help with the decision . thanks .
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 3:27:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By claketyclak:
well right now i'm in between the M1 Garand and the FAL . but niether will be until sometime next year , just trying to wiegh the pro's and cons of owners to help with the decision . thanks .



I was going to suggest the Garand in .308 if you were worried about bans. No evil pistol grip or detached magazine.

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