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Posted: 10/16/2003 11:22:34 AM EDT
I went to the Memphis, TN gun show this past week. Prior to entrance we were asked to show our weapons as “cleared” and to enter the building with our pistols in a “safe mode” (slide locked back). The people at the desk inspected weapon to insure it was clear and then put a plastic strap through the action and around the slide to make gun inoperable. Also magazine were marked with stickers with one’s name on it and could be claimed at time of exit (I chose to take my mags back to car). When I holstered my Glock 27 I noticed a tight fit into my Sidearmor holster. When I was leaving, I presented my weapon to the man at the desk so he could cut the strap off. I then noticed that the buckle on the plastic strap had caused a bind when gun was holstered which caused the front site to be dislodged and fall to the floor . Back at the car, with some diligent surgery with crude instruments, I was able to re-install my front sight. Now, here is my question. Why are we required to carry our weapons unloaded to a gun show?? This is like our own back yard. If I were an anti-gunner, I would most certainly use this as ammunition by stating, “Well, those gun-nuts don’t even left themselves carry loaded weapons in there own places (gun shows) why should we allow them to carry weapons in other public places. I think its pretty hypocritical of them to demand the right to concealed carry in public, when they themselves don’t allow it on their own soil.” etc. etc. Am I missing a perfectly good reason for this practice? Is it to make the show safer? Where else would you feel safer? If a person decides to “sling lead” in this setting, he would look like Swiss cheese in a matter of seconds (I admit I wouldn’t want to be behind him). What do you think about this practice of disarmament at gun shows?
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 11:48:03 AM EDT
Yeah, I see the same thing. My bet is insurance. The venues probably require the promoters to provide huge policies, and the insurance companies are dictating a pile of rules before writing the policy.

Just a guess.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 11:54:22 AM EDT


Ummm, i guess you havent heard about all the negligent discharges that have happened at gunshows over the last couple of years.

Better safe than dead. Fact is a lot of people who attend gunshows are too STUPID to carry a loaded weapon, so they had to put a stop to it. Sucks huh.


-Spaceman

Link Posted: 10/16/2003 12:56:52 PM EDT
Sad to say, but spacemanspiff is correct: some of these guys are REAL dufuses. Next time you go to a show, just look areound you and talk to people. An eyeopener.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 1:18:33 PM EDT
Why do you tell them your carrying?
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 1:21:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AK103K:
Why do you tell them your carrying?



Thats what I was thinking.

If your state doesnt require you to not CC in a gunshow than you cant.

But if this guy isnt a LEO you dont have to tell him your carrying plain and simple.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 1:28:15 PM EDT
I agree with all of the above. But what kind of front sight falls off with a little prompting from a plastic tie? I would suggest something a little tougher.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 3:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2003 3:01:29 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 4:14:28 PM EDT
Too many people handling too many guns to take a chance.

It's the same reason why on a cold range during cease fire NO-ONE handles any guns.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 4:16:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LEADPOISON:
Why are we required to carry our weapons unloaded to a gun show??




Because there's always some ignorant son of a bitch who sets off a rd. I've seen dealers do it as well as customers.

It's a good rule!
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 4:55:36 PM EDT
ND is definatly the concern. In the last couple of years there have been three serious NDs at the big Tulsa show. One person got shot.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 5:30:35 PM EDT

the big Tulsa show.


Speaking of which...whoohoo...its GunShow time.

I would say the rule sorta makes sense since people are much more likely to be handling their guns in the show. Whether its to try out a new holster or maybe someone is thinking about a spur of the moment trade. Maybe someone asks to see the such and such mod you have done.
Maybe I'm grasping at straws.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 9:49:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By LEADPOISON:
Why are we required to carry our weapons unloaded to a gun show??




Because there's always some ignorant son of a bitch who sets off a rd. I've seen dealers do it as well as customers.

It's a good rule!

Yes, it is...but what you should be REALLY wondering about is why the sights on what is supposedly a defensive pistol can be rendered inoperable by......a tie wrap! I could understand if it had been subjected to some form of "hard use", but a tie wrap?
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 10:26:26 PM EDT
IMO, because thats what you asked for, there are too many mental midgets walking around at gun shows. Gangsta wannabes, paramilitary neverweres, and just plain idiots.

Please, make them unload at the door, or I won't be able to go to anymore gun shows. (Mrs Mick doesn't want me shot by an idiot.)
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 12:15:11 PM EDT
Thanks for your feedback. And I agree with you about the fragile nature of the front site. It is the stock site that came on the glock. I planned,even prior to this, putting some Heinie straight 8's sites on it.
L.P.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:08:32 PM EDT
Personally, I always sort of wonder about the guys who feel the need to walk around a gun show with an empty, strap-tied gun in a holster...

Seriously, I've been to 3 different gun shows in the past 10 years or so where there was a ND - one into the ceiling, one with two injuries, and one with a death. Like many of you, I've seen some of the... ummm... more questionable-looking, shall we say, folks at some of the shows. Frankly, I like the "No Loaded Weapon" policy at the shows. Sorry.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:13:51 PM EDT
Been going to gunshows for more years than I care to think and I can't ever recall a show that didn't require you to unload. Perfectly sensible rule.

Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:33:30 PM EDT
And where is all this handling and unloading of loaded weapons going on at? Right there at the front door? Seems to me, its a lot more dangerous to do this, than to leave it alone in its holster and not say anything. If your there to sell something, it should be unloaded anyway and yes, checked at the door. There no reason the pistol in my holster is coming out short of some life threatening thing, so whats it matter? It hasnt gone off by itself yet.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 1:49:34 PM EDT
I love going to gun shows, but at the same time I look and see more and more mental midgets.

I'm more than OK with the rule.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 8:04:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 8:05:54 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 6:13:47 PM EDT
I'm afraid I have to agree that the "bozo factor" is way too high at most gun shows. Last thing I want to do is see someone injured because someone lacks trigger finger discipline when checking out the fit of a holster.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:51:57 PM EDT

.... Yes I have de-activated the firearms of off-duty cops, and thet was the most hassle I ever had on the job.


why did you feel that was necessary?
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:57:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 8:59:21 PM EDT by uncleSAM]
I can't tell how many times I've been to shows and got behind people going down the aisle who can't bathe before they go out in public. Make these idiots unload I say. If you read this and your one of those people, then take a f**king bath next time.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:42:40 AM EDT

I'm sure the Antis would secretly love for there to be a fatal ND at our (or any) show, so as to make it easier to close 'em all down.

In the same vein, your giving the anti's ammo by saying that you dont trust people to carry loaded guns at the shows. So if the GUN people dont trust gun people to have loaded weapons, how can the rest of the country? Yup, real good message. As for ND's, most of the few I've heard of came from or behind dealers tables.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:34:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:48:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 12:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 12:03:39 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By raf:
Your point is counterbalanced by the image of gun people policing themselves in the interest of safety.
There are valid reasons to disarm which have nothing to do with trusting/distrusting CCW gunowners.
For example, gunshows, due to space constraints, tend to be crowded affairs. Lots of people coming and going and bumping into one another. Not at all like most public venues where CCW goes on.

Disarming people at gunshows may be heard of by a few; a fatal (or even a non-fatal) ND will be heard of by many.
Given that one MUST choose between the leave armed/disarm alternatives, which do you think does the least harm to gunowners' image in the long run?
Keep in mind that the decision to disarm is made by the renters/suppliers of the venue in our case, not by our organization.
Were it up to us alone, however, the decision might well be the same, given liability issues.
On balance, I'd rather disarm, with that decision's baggage, than have an ND with its far greater baggage.
YMMV.



VERY WELL-SAID, raf!

Even down here in the very-pro-gun Deep South, the local news outlets got weeks of mileage out of each of the last two gun show NDs I mentioned earlier. (And yes, the "Brady Bunch" dispatched someone down here to make sure that happened!)
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:21:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uncleSAM:
I can't tell how many times I've been to shows and got behind people going down the aisle who can't bathe before they go out in public. Make these idiots unload I say. If you read this and your one of those people, then take a f**king bath next time.




No kidding. I've run into the foulest smelling people at gunshows.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:09:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MickAr15:
IMO, because thats what you asked for, there are too many mental midgets walking around at gun shows. Gangsta wannabes, paramilitary neverweres, and just plain idiots.




Amen.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:30:48 AM EDT

A little off subject, but what do you do if the guy standing beside you at a table pops off a round? What if after the first round the slide is not locked back, or he is holding a revolver? What if he just stands there with a dumb look on his face? WHAT IF HE JUST SHOT SOMEBODY?

Do you tackle him? Conk him on the head? Worse? Or just make sure the po-po knows it was him when they come running over?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:07:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 9:08:39 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:

A little off subject, but what do you do if the guy standing beside you at a table pops off a round? What if after the first round the slide is not locked back, or he is holding a revolver? What if he just stands there with a dumb look on his face? WHAT IF HE JUST SHOT SOMEBODY?

Do you tackle him? Conk him on the head? Worse? Or just make sure the po-po knows it was him when they come running over?



I've never been right next to where the "event" occurred, but the reaction of the crowd to a round going off in a gun show was identical in all three cases that I have witnessed:



Big crowd, a lot of low, constant noise, a lot of movement...

BANG!

Absolute silence & stillness (except of course the immediate vicinity of the event, in the two cases where someone was actually hit) - nobody wanted to move or say anything. It was really eerie...
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 9:54:29 AM EDT
most of the people i see at gunshows i wouldnt even want on the next lane at the range.

you guys wonder why a lot of gun dealers are such pricks...its because they deal with gun show people every weekend.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 7:28:22 PM EDT by Sl_AYER]
That sucks to hear about your front sight falling off. The good news is that at least you found out about the problem with your sight before it fell off when you needed it. The zip tie should not have posed a problem for your sight. My pistol gets zip tied at every show and I have never had a problem.

I think everyone else summed it up best by saying that the average gun show attendee may not be trained well enough to handle a loaded firarm in confined areas. I know that some folks take their firearms to be worked on and if were a vendor that last thing I would want is someone clearing their weapon in front of me and my customers.

I go to a very large public range almost every weekend and about 80% of the folks there need some serious training and could not even tell me what the first rule of firearms safety is or how to field strip thier weapon. I find myself working with at least 4 or 5 different tables trying to show folks how to use thier weapons safely. In fact, I have contemplated not going back to the public range due to safety concerns. Unfortunately, firearms training just is not a priority for many gun owners. I think that this lack of training is the cause for many of the "accidents" that we read about in the paper and further fuel the ignorance about firearms in the masses. I don't have a problem clearing my weapon at the shows, it's a public event and you have to respect the right of the folks running it to maintain this policy.

All that being said, I do have some friends who will not attend a gun show because the are not allowed to carry a loaded pistol.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 10:06:44 AM EDT
At gunshows,somtimes you wonder if the bus from the"Group Home for Jerry's Boy's"didnt pull up outside and unload it's cargo of droolers,the driver of the bus hand"his" boys each $5.00,and say"I'll be back to pick you up at 5 kids.Have a nice day at the show".Seems like a good way to get cheap baby-sitting.Cheaper even than dropping them off at the mall,where they would bother the Liberals,and their children.I have met some of the absolute dumbest,in-bred,no-reading,non-bathing,fingerfucking shit for brained,people that can exist in the free world at funshows.Also I have met some of the most helpful,informed and intelegent people that do exist,at gunshows.The good people keep you going back,as well as the love of firearms and what they represent in a free society.Yes gun dealers can be pricks at times,but it's the company they are forced to keep and the bullshit that goes with the job.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:24:17 PM EDT
I've been to lots of shows, but saw only one ND. If I remember correctly, it was a .22.

I don't mind the "empty your guns" routine at the front door. I like seeing that jar of bullets they keep that supposedly came from "unloaded" guns.

There are way too many idiots at gun shows, and everyone is handling a gun, so in terms of safety they should all be unloaded and banded. No one complains at the range when all guns must be put down.

As for those guys that won't go to gun shows because they can't carry loaded - I say pick a better battle.

Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:40:14 PM EDT
..........gun shows suck.......but.....it was great to get those center industries mags for $12.......and the fal handguards for $5......so......whatever........
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 4:29:16 PM EDT
The big issue with the NDs and unloading at shows is that people will want to trade, sell, buy holsters, try on that Tactical vest, whatever; as they jam the pistol in or check it out they have a good chance of an ND. Simple; there is a high probability of handling. All of the NDs I have heard of came from holster fitting or buyers handling a weapon.

As far as the Anti's and "They don't trust themselves in the show", the answer is "You provide armed, uniformed security at *every* establishment, and following me on the streets, and I'll go unarmed".
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