Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 9/2/2003 6:05:18 PM EDT
I just bought a Kimber, and it has allen head grip screws. For the life of me I can't figure out why they would use allen heads instead of the old school flatheads. It would seem to me that the flatheads would allow you to remove the grips with an improvised tool, while the allens are very specific.
Am I missing something? Is there a reason for the allens that I'm not seeing?
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:13:08 PM EDT
Look cool.

Less likely to get buggered up by an ill fitting screwdriver.

Collect less lint when you're carrying concealed.


Why would you need to improvize on removing your grips?
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:23:28 PM EDT
What Lumpy196 said.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:46:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Why would you need to improvize on removing your grips?


Who knows, but then, why make it harder than it has to be?
All of the reasons you posted are about what I expected, I'm just thinking that it'd be easier to not have one more tool, when just about anything flat & metal would work for the flathead.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:55:47 PM EDT
Allen head wrenches are just part of my screwdriver kit.

But then again I have them on a lot of guns.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 9:53:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 3:13:27 AM EDT
How about having to tighten them up? Some grips cover and hold moving parts in place.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 3:21:24 AM EDT
Allex wrenches are NOT a rare tool. In fact, in a pinch, a small screw driver will tighten them down. I dont know about you, but I dont really expect my Craftsman 1/2" screw driver to tighten down gun screws. Even the flathead screws on guns tend to be thinner notched than most common screwdrivers.

Thats why I have a Brownells screwdriver set....and amazingly, it has allen-head bits.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 3:21:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Flathead screws are horrible in general, and get all beat up and damaged very easily. Finally, the world is starting to leave that old, obsolete design behind. Still, what kind of emergency would require removal of the grips?

-Troy


What Troy said. For work, I carry a large variety of hex wrenches, and two screwdrivers.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 4:13:03 AM EDT
How ya' doin' today, Troy?
I don't mean to get emotional about grip screws, but I really got to disagree with you.
True, slotted grip screws can be horrible, but the alternatives are worse. Allen heads will strip out quicker than any other design. This is especially true if you decide to use a little dab of "Locktite" on them to keep them from backing out (which can happen with 1911s).
Slotted screws will outlast any other design and are more positive, PROVIDED you use the CORRECT SIZE screwdriver! I know, I know, we've ALL been guilty of using the wrong size scrwedriver from time to time (including yours truly). However, any gun owner with half a brain will (eventually) make sure that he's got a few dedicated screwdrivers in his cleaning kit or range bag. I like the look of the allen heads, too and I had stainless steel allen heads on my 1911 for years until I finally got some sense and went back to the "old fashioned" slotted screws, but they're the best way to go. The old school gun guys knew what they were doing, trust them!
Coolio
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 4:34:34 AM EDT
Didn't mean to cause a stir. I just like to keep things simple. If I can carry one tool to do lots of things, I'd much rather do that. Hell, the flatheads on my leatherman have yet to meet a screw they can't tighten or loosen. If all those screws over the years had been allen head, or torx, I'd have needed alot more tools than what easily fits in a pouch on my belt.
And I agree with coolio, allenheads strip too, and they are just as big a pain, if not more so, to get out once they're stipped.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 4:44:03 AM EDT
Norman,

I'm sure you can get the flathead screws. Hell, I bet some people here have some they'd send you. I might even have a set. Can't remember if I kept them, tho.

Link Posted: 9/3/2003 6:48:20 AM EDT
If you swap those screws out you can send them to me! I would a set on my springfield. I was kind of dissapointed that "loaded" didnt mean "with allen screws".
Having been a motorcycle mechanic for 18 years I can say with some authority that allen head fasteners are FAR superior to either flat or philips screws.
Here's a trick with a frozen fastener of any type, allen, phillips or flat(standard). Strike the fastener head with a hammer and drift. This will do two things: (1)loosen the loctite/corrosion on the threads (2)in the case of philips or flat screws it will peen the worn slot tighter. Then tap the screwdriver in the slot and "walla" remove the screw.YMMV
Be careful hammering on a pistol, this is a technique best used on fasteners on something solid like and engine block but with some finess can be used on less robust equipment.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 8:52:40 AM EDT
Various manufacturers make special flat head screw drivers that won't beat up the head to the screw. I have a set from Forester. It costed something like $30 at Midway. The hex heads screws look cool if nothing else, but to me it is not absolutely necessary. Some of you folks thousands of dollars worth of guns, and complain that tools cost $30?
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 8:53:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:
Didn't mean to cause a stir.
<snip>



Who, you cause a stir, never. Why would any of us think that?

Anyway, don't like em, change em, it's that simple. Allen head screws in general are stronger, won't get mucked up while trying to remove them when they are tight, etc. You know all the reasons already, now quit your complaining..

I can't imagine any male not having allen wrenches in their tool box! And if I'm working on any of my firearms, sure as shit I'm gonna use hollow ground screw drivers on those flat headed screws not my leatherman!
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 9:07:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2003 9:08:09 AM EDT by norman74]

Originally Posted By BuLLet:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Didn't mean to cause a stir.
<snip>



Who, you cause a stir, never. Why would any of us think that?


Ya know, as often as not I'm really NOT trying to.


Anyway, don't like em, change em, it's that simple. Allen head screws in general are stronger, won't get mucked up while trying to remove them when they are tight, etc. You know all the reasons already, now quit your complaining..


I fully intend to change them (along with the grips), but I just wanted to know ahead of time if there was a good reason not to. So far I haven't heard one.


I can't imagine any male not having allen wrenches in their tool box! And if I'm working on any of my firearms, sure as shit I'm gonna use hollow ground screw drivers on those flat headed screws not my leatherman!


I've got a toolbox FULL of shit sitting in my closet at home. All sorts of tools for working on every goddamn thing from bicycles, to harleys, to computers, to guns, to trucks, to cars I don't own anymore, to radio-controlled cars..... The point is I don't want to carry all this crap around with me everywhere I go.
If I could modify every single piece of mechanical equipment that I own to only require a Leatherman to take it apart, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Now, to find an original style guide rod ro replace this supid one-piece thing.....
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 1:33:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 2:30:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2003 2:31:49 PM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By Troy:
To be honest with you, I don't have hex-head screws in my Kimber anymore, but that's because I replaced them with Torx screws, which IMO should be the only fastener allowed on this planet.
-Troy


Now this is where we disagree. I'm forever stipping them out.
To whoever was compaining about hex head stripping. Have you ever seen a 300 pound man hanging off the end of a snap-on breaker bar? I have. 16 mm socket head cap screw, with red loc-tite. Slow even pressure he said. He pulled down on it slowly and evenly, until he was suspened from it. The snap-on lost.
Snap-on, Snap-off.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:02:31 AM EDT
Just as an FYI. The 1911 can be completely disassembled without tools, if the original type screws are used.
Top Top