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Posted: 8/7/2003 7:29:29 AM EDT
What is the best setup for a quiet rifle (without getting a suppressor)? Which of the .22 rounds is a good combination of low noise but potent enough for small game at 50 yds? Is .17 significantly louder?

I want something for pest control in my yard, but don't want to freak out the neighbors or my dog.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 8:47:54 AM EDT
cb cap .22's. we use that at our hunting club to kill the rats that are eating the dog food. it doenst spook the dogs and it only sounds like a pellet gun
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 8:55:03 AM EDT
Why don't you want a suppressor?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 11:33:47 AM EDT
Super Colibri in a bolt action 22 LR. Quiet as a mouse. Keep in mind that a quailty air rifle will be just as potent.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 11:52:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Why don't you want a suppressor?



My CLEO won't sign.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 11:53:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slacker:
Super Colibri in a bolt action 22 LR. Quiet as a mouse. Keep in mind that a quailty air rifle will be just as potent.



Yeah, I have a really nice air rifle, but I also want to be able to plink at the range with it too.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 11:57:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chimborazo:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Why don't you want a suppressor?



My CLEO won't sign.



You know there are a double shitload of people who can sign for you, right? Sheriff, Chief of Police, county prosecutors, judges, your local FBI SAC if you know him...
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 12:32:50 PM EDT
Aquilla SSS seemed pretty quiet out of my Ruger 10/22. They also have lots of power. Maybe not quiet enough for outside, but with one of those "accuracy cans" from Cabela's it might be a little quieter?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 12:58:04 PM EDT
Forget the 17, supersonic devel[otherwise super fun]

a long barrel 22 with match ammo will not only do it at 50, it will place good hits for one shot stealthness.

my cz has i think a 27" barrel. i dont 'need' hearing protection with it and most match ammo.

fun finding most accurate ammo and which will be consistantly subsonic in your rifle.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:01:58 PM EDT
Several years ago during the winter months, my partner and I used to take a Browning BL22 out with us on the midnight shift. We had some wicked bunny hunts within the city limits. We used old Remington standard velocity .22 longs. It made a sound closely resembling a loud air rifle rather than a crack. It never drew any attention.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 2:15:38 PM EDT
At 50 yrds you will need .22 CBs. Any .22 will shoot them. Best choice is a Win. Mod 74 in .22 short, it will cycle CBs. Next is a think is a Win 62. pump in .22 short. Aguila stuff sucks compared to CBs. De veras.
GG
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 3:56:22 PM EDT
for the cb's we use a marlin lever action .22
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 4:42:04 PM EDT

My CLEO won't sign.

Don't hesitate, incorporate!!!
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 10:34:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2003 10:35:56 PM EDT by Mach1]
The Super Colibri is quite anemic on anything larger than a chimpmunk. It's accuracy stinks, also.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 6:02:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mach1:
The Super Colibri is quite anemic on anything larger than a chimpmunk. It's accuracy stinks, also.



Agreed.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 8:38:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

My CLEO won't sign.

Don't hesitate, incorporate!!!




What do you do, to incorporate yourself?
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 9:33:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dredd308:
What do you do, to incorporate yourself?



"Just" form a corporation. Maybe a corporation that invests in C3 firearms by chance. If you have the money for machine guns it is not that big of a cost, but for one silencer it seems a little too costly IMHO. Gonna end up making that silencer cost $2000.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 3:31:21 PM EDT

"Just" form a corporation. Maybe a corporation that invests in C3 firearms by chance. If you have the money for machine guns it is not that big of a cost, but for one silencer it seems a little too costly IMHO. Gonna end up making that silencer cost $2000.

That depends on what it costs to incorporate in your state. In Oklahoma, the cost is $50 and relatively painless. However, in other states this is not so, so I can't really comment.



What do you do, to incorporate yourself?

You form a corporation and make yourself an officer of that corporation. As an officer, you can legally possess NFA weapons registered to the corporation and buy NFA items without having to get the CLEO signoff or fingerprint cards.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 11:47:41 AM EDT
Remington Subsonic .22LR is pretty quiet and will still cycle the action of a 10/22.

Volquartensen will build you a 10/22 in .22 Short if you want something queter.

Lots of old bolt action .22's will shoot shorts, longs, or long rifles.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 1:46:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

"Just" form a corporation. Maybe a corporation that invests in C3 firearms by chance. If you have the money for machine guns it is not that big of a cost, but for one silencer it seems a little too costly IMHO. Gonna end up making that silencer cost $2000.

That depends on what it costs to incorporate in your state. In Oklahoma, the cost is $50 and relatively painless. However, in other states this is not so, so I can't really comment.



What do you do, to incorporate yourself?

You form a corporation and make yourself an officer of that corporation. As an officer, you can legally possess NFA weapons registered to the corporation and buy NFA items without having to get the CLEO signoff or fingerprint cards.



You do lose your 4th amendment rights though. Just something to think about.

There are tons of CLEOs, have you tried the DA, Sheriff, Police Chief etc. etc.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 3:09:55 PM EDT

You do lose your 4th amendment rights though. Just something to think about.

Does your mommy and daddy know you post here? You don't know WTF you're talking about, baby boy. A Form 4 is a PRIVATE tax return document. Please refrain from posting if you intend to post this nonsense.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 10:20:01 PM EDT
Since NFA weapons are a lot of hassle for some of us, I would suggest a long bull barrelled .22 w/subsonic ammo. Target crown, no brake & you will have a very quiet rifle.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 10:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 10:49:08 PM EDT by Gunbert]

Originally Posted By Rickyj:
Aquilla SSS seemed pretty quiet out of my Ruger 10/22. They also have lots of power. Maybe not quiet enough for outside, but with one of those "accuracy cans" from Cabela's it might be a little quieter?




What Ricky said. SSS is pretty quiet, but will still kick a varmints ass. It's a 66 grain bullet in a 22 short case... the bullet is so long that even with the short case it's still the same length as a .22LR. I've shot jackrabbits with the stuff and it does the job very well. Now if you ever couple this ammo with a can, then you got a real back-yard chipmunk killing machine! Piff!
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:16:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 5:16:36 AM EDT by shaggy]

Originally Posted By ZRH:You do lose your 4th amendment rights though. Just something to think about.



Not at all!

Buying an NFA weapon does not give any law enforcement organization any more right to enter your home and inspect your stuff than possession of any non-NFA firearm. There's more laws to get tripped up on (gotta keep that corp. alive and in good standing, and have to transfer it in acordance with all NFA regulations), but filing a F4 does not give the govt any more rights to search & seizure than they would otherwise have. Unless they have probable cause & a warrant, they cannot come in and look around whenever they want.

Of additional note - the process of incorporation to acquire NFA weapons can also be used as a play to get a signature as an individual. Basically, you give you CLEO a choice - either sign the form for you as an individual or you will go corporate. If they decide to sign, they will get to know what NFA weapons have in your possession and what sorts of hardware may be lurking in their jurisdiction. If they refuse, you can say you'll still get all the NFA weapons you want, but will not have to inform them of anything, and do not have to let them know (and they can't find out from BATF unless they have probable cause and a warrant). Thus you use the corporate route to leverage them into signing. They may not want to sign, but I think most CLEO's would rather have knowledge of what NFA weapons you may have.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 11:12:39 PM EDT
Okay, gents, please educate this grasshopper... why does incorporation negate a CLEO's ability to "sign off" on these items? Is this a federal issue or does it vary from state to state?
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:03:45 AM EDT

Okay, gents, please educate this grasshopper... why does incorporation negate a CLEO's ability to "sign off" on these items? Is this a federal issue or does it vary from state to state?

It's Federal. Corporate ownership only requires that you submit articles of corporation with the Form 4 vice fingerprint cards, photographs, and CLEO signoff. However, as shaggy posted, there are certain pitfalls to incorporating such as maintaining the corporation, filing taxes, etc. Some states make it a big pain in the ass to form a corporation, too ($50 in Oklahoma).
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 5:31:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 5:35:22 AM EDT by shaggy]

Originally Posted By marvl:
Okay, gents, please educate this grasshopper... why does incorporation negate a CLEO's ability to "sign off" on these items? Is this a federal issue or does it vary from state to state?



Ahhh Grasshopper....When you can pluck the form 4 from my hand you will be ready.

The reason is that a corporation circumvents the CLEO signoff and fingerprinting requirement is that a corp. is a legal entity that can do own (and sell/dispose of) property just like an individual. However, how can you fingerprint a corporation (not the stockholders, members of the board of directors, or corporate officers)? You can't. Likewise, you can't perform a background check on a corporation - corporations don't commit crimes, only the people who comprise the corporation can actually commit a crime. As a corporate asset, an NFA weapon is owned by the corp, and not directly by the stockholders, board, or management, so they don't have to be checked. Anyone (entitled by the corporation) with access to the weapons must be legal to otherwise possess them, but there is no actual check.

It can vary state to state as the laws of incorporation vary state to state, but generally, as long as the corporation is valid, and the corporate charter alows for the purchase and possession of NFA weapons, you're good to go on the federal level. Note however, that if you live in a state that prohibits possession of NFA weapons, just forming a corporation in that state won't get you by.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 5:39:07 AM EDT
I know this has hijacked the original intent of the thread (sorry Chimborazo) but this issue interests me. Anybody knows what happens if you fold the corporation? Presumably you can make a valid sale of the NFA weapon prior to folding, but if you don't you're suddenly left holding and illegal weapon, correct?
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 5:54:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 5:58:00 AM EDT by shaggy]
Yup. The corporation MUST stay valid while it holds any NFA weapons. If you don't pay your franchise taxes or do something to otherwise dissolve the corporation, you (as an individual) would be illegally in possession of an NFA weapon. That is, the corporation would be considered 'dead' and you (as an individual) would be holding an NFA weapon not registered to you.

You can sell it prior to dissolving the corporation, or if you can get a signoff, you (as an individual) can even transfer it to yourself, but once the corp dissolves, all NFA weapons in its possession must be gone (either by transfer or by destruction).

IMHO, ownership as an individual is always preferable to onwership as a corp. Once you own it as an individual you have no duties (reporting, franchise taxes, etc) until you decide to sell it. Although the corp route gets around the fingerprinting and CLEO signoff, I think its much more hassle in the long run. But I also know its the only option for many people.
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