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Posted: 8/1/2003 7:34:11 PM EDT
Russkie ammo for the AR, well, we've heard enough about that can of worms to last awhile.
Russkie .45acp ammo, well, it's one of TWO cartridges that will not be digested by my USP.
So I'm thinking: I just spent two bills on a German Mauser rechambered to a .30/06 (with a nice Leupold scope and a 'surprise' Timney trigger) and I ain't got no ammo. Hmmmm. Dad has about 3K of .30/06 ammo left over from his Y2K stash so I go over the the old homestead and snag 20 rounds of the stuff.
I get to the range and open it up and Lo and Behold! Its the same colored steel case and lacquer I remember so well from my Wolf experiences! I look at the box and sure enough, it is Russian manufacture! Closer inspection reveals a funky case with what looks like a belt(!) near the base (belted magnum .30/06? What will the Russkies think of next!).
Like an idiot a put a round in the chamber and shoot it. Surprise, surprise! The @#%$ steel case is nicely stuck in the chamber and the bolt won't budge. A few minutes with a rubber mallet dislodges the case and like an idiot I put a second round in the chamber and shoot it. A few minutes with a rubber mallet gets the bolt back and the case extracted and I see something jigglin in the magazine well. It is the primer from the last round.
I save the rest of the ammo for Dad's stash. I hope his Rem700 does better with it if TSHTF...
BTW, South Korean surplus ammo worked just fine.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:32:45 PM EDT
My Ruskie guns have always liked Ruskie ammo and my buddy's Bushy has no problems with it either. I'll be putting some Wolf through my Yugo SKS this weekend. I'll let ya know what happens. BTW, make sure them chambers is clean.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:35:18 PM EDT
What were the problems with the .45 ACP? FTF, FTE, loading problems?

I've been thinking of picking up some to try with my 1911.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 10:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
What were the problems with the .45 ACP? FTF, FTE, loading problems?

I've been thinking of picking up some to try with my 1911.



Don't. The steel case is hard on the extractor and you know how easy it is to properly replace an extractor on a 1911. What a fun time! Because of the laquer the casings are basically physically thicker than brass cased ammo--if you have a micrometer you can see for yourself. The crimps suck, about the only thing the Wolf has going for it is that it is loaded to correct overall length with a nice round 230 grain bullet. Also it shoots dirty, as all Wolf does, so the inside of your gun will quickly be covered in black slime.

Start handloading as soon as possible and never look back. You can make a box of 50 rounds in half an hour for 9 cents a round, each one of them superior to most of what you'll come across at the store.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 10:40:30 PM EDT
only russian ammo that I found works great in Non Comblock arms is Silver Bear since it doesnt have the laquer.
Comblock guns on the other hand ie ak/sks etc will eat almost anything.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:16:46 AM EDT
NAM, the Wolf ammo gave me FTEs in the USPc--the other ammo was AguilaIQ, and it would jam a live round half-way into the chamber and THEN get stuck.


Uhhhm, BTW, I do need to make a small apology--Wolf 7.62x39 ammo has worked flawlessly in my SKS...let this be a warning kiddies: Sweeping statements like those beginning with the word "All" should only be made when sober

BTW, the '06 ammo I was using was 168gr made by the JSC Barnaul Machine-Tool Plant (Made in Russia). I think I will try it in the Rem700 tomorrow and see what happens no wait, that's drunk talk
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:50:22 AM EDT
you've had problems with aguila IQ???

I picked up a box of this nasty looking shit for the 1911. crap.....looks like im gonna have to test a few rounds.

HAve you tried the ammo in different firearms, or just the USP? Is there any chance that the USP may be finicky? im jsut curious. I'm gonna have to try this stuff with the 1911 to be sure i guess....
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:03:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 1:05:31 AM EDT by llanero]
I haven't tried it in any other gun, NAM--The material to make a 117gr .45ACP bullet (could it be an aluminum alloy???) just seems to grab like a mother when it comes into contact with the chamber. One things for sure, that is one hooooot round! It really zings that bullet out there.
I search out and try as many new rounds as I can afford and these two are the only disappointments--do let me know how your 1911 likes it!

Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:17:47 AM EDT
Definitly will do.

Next time you find yourself in he St. Louis area, drop me a line. Hopefully i'll be free for some shooting
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 4:39:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:56:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Did you dad ever fire any of that 30-06 through anything successfully? That's a lot of ammo to have to discard



Nah, I believe I was the first to test the ammo--when I get off work, I'll probably head up to his place and see if his Remington700 digests it or not! If not, there's always the EEJust joking!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:14:16 AM EDT
Ruskie ammo runs fine in AK's and SKS....
having said that I would'nt run that shit in any caliber besides com block cals through any non com block weaponry. I've already seen first hand what Wolf does to some ARs/1911s.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:40:52 AM EDT
I'm on my 4th case of Wolf in variuos AR's and have no trouble with it eccept 2 non-firing rounds. Of course I do not rely on it for social purposes but it just fine as blasting ammo.

Of course, all my chambers are mil-spec chrome lined.

Bob

Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:30:06 PM EDT
No complaints from any of my rifles and pistols so far from rusky ammo
Springfield 1911A1
CMP Garand
SKS
AK47
AR15

AND I SHOOT ALOT.

Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:15:00 PM EDT
That Russian .30-06 couldn't be 7.62 by 54 could it? Nahh couldn't happen.


I've run a few K though my M1 Garand - equal numbers of .308 stuff though my FAL and M1A without issue.

Military firearms should never be ammo sensitive - the contions shouldn't be that tight.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:24:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 5:28:53 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]
I have run Wolf ammo through my:
  • Bushmaster Shorty (5.56x45)
  • RRA home brew with Wilson barrel (5.56x45)
  • Bushmaster M17S (5.56x45)
  • CZ 75BD (9mm)
  • CZ 75D PCR (9mm)
... with ZERO problems of any kind. No opinion, just fact.

[edited to add: I was out today and put another 120 rounds through my Bushy AR... ran great!]

But please, don't YOU use any of that bad, bad Russian ammo! Gotta keep the demand down so I can keep buying it at less than $100/thousand!

- C_M
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 7:31:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Military firearms should never be ammo sensitive



Yep.

I shoot Wolf in:

- 9x18 (Makarov)

- .45ACP (Ruger P97)

- 5.45x39 ( SAR-2)

- .223 (Bushmaster)

I have yet to have any ammo related issues. Not the most accurate stuff made, but I'm more of a beer can killer, myself. If I want accuracy, out comes the 6mm PPC Sako.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:11:52 PM EDT
I am happy that others are having no issues with this steel cased stuff--I wish I could use it (I really do like cheap ammo being a broke college student). My SKS eats it (I'm still using old military ammo out of the big tin) just fine, like I said in my second post--and the mauser, though it started off life as a military weapon, it has since been 1)glass bedded 2)had a real fancy trigger put on it, leading me to conclude that 1)the chamber probably reflects this emphasis on accuracy and 2)Russian ammo may not be its cup of tea. I may give Silver Bear a shot...whenever I'm through shooting through the Korean surplus stuff.
Basically, back to the russkie ammo, what my gunsmith told me, is that the steel cases expand and stay expanded unlike brass, which has a wee bit of "give" after it's been fired.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:06:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By llanero:
Closer inspection reveals a funky case with what looks like a belt(!) near the base (belted magnum .30/06? What will the Russkies think of next!).
Like an idiot a put a round in the chamber and shoot it. Surprise, surprise! The @#%$ steel case is nicely stuck in the chamber and the bolt won't budge. A few minutes with a rubber mallet dislodges the case and like an idiot I put a second round in the chamber and shoot it. A few minutes with a rubber mallet gets the bolt back and the case extracted and I see something jigglin in the magazine well. It is the primer from the last round.


Upon rereading this, maybe you ARE an idiot.

Did the case really, truly have a belt? If it did, then its not 30-'06 and you shouldn't have chambered it, let alone fired it. The fact that you did it twice is astonishing.

How else are we to understand the statement: "a funky case with what looks like a belt(!) near the base (belted magnum .30/06?"
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:55:09 PM EDT
Chambering questionable looking ammo in a rechambered firearm has the potential to cause more harm than any ficticious lacquer.

As to "damage" why has it yet to cause ANY harm to my firearms, after literally tens of thousands of rounds? Feel free to attribute it to sheer luck, as I'm needing that for my potential lottery ticket purchases.


Meplat-
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:48:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 11:10:22 PM EDT by llanero]

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:
Upon rereading this, maybe you ARE an idiot.

Did the case really, truly have a belt? If it did, then its not 30-'06 and you shouldn't have chambered it, let alone fired it. The fact that you did it twice is astonishing.

b]



LOL, I am grateful for the qualifying "maybe" before "you are an idiot". I can also appreciate that your sole measurement of my judgement comes from what I've typed. That being said:

The case really, truly is .30/06. It really, truly did not have a belt. I had hoped that my comment on a "belted magnum.30/06" and "what will the russkies think of next?" would be construed as a joke and not as evidence of idiocy. As near as I can describe it is actually more like a groove that slightly fills out after firing.
This is how you are supposed to understand the statement "a funky case with what looks like a belt(!) near the base (belted magnum .30/06". I really, truly hope you aren't quite so astonished after reading this.
I stated that it "looked like a belt" as in "it is vaguely reminiscent of a belt" and NOT as in "well, goddam! That there is a belt on an ought six! Well I be goldammed!"
Buy a box of Barnaul bullets labeled CARTRIDGES 30-06 SPRINGFIELD SP and take a look at the contents and see if you can come up with a better description for what you see on the case base.
The case is dimensionally identical to a "known" .30/06 case ('known' as in USA made, bought at Wal-Mart enclosed in a box proclaiming that twenty .30/06 cartridges reside within).
I DID have some nagging doubts in my mind as a result of the short range test...but it wasn't the cartridge. The gunstore owner I had bought the rifle from had proclaimed that it was a .30/06, but it didn't say this anywhere on the rifle, so I did a little researchin' on the internet before I shot the thing. As a result, I found out that the Golden State Arms SantaFe Field Mauser Model 12012 was a German K98 Mauser that had been rebarreled from the 8mm to the '06. They had done this in the '50s and '60s.
So maybe someone had done some funky wildcatting with the rifle since then, or maybe its age/use had eroded the chamber to the point where the stuck case was a result of over expansion. The gunsmith I took the rifle to said the chamber was for the '06 and that it was in good shape. AND when I showed him the case that had the primer blown out, he commented on the funny russian case but that it WAS from a .30/06! Woohoo! We have professional, independent verification (as opposed to my own personal and admittedly amateur abilities to eyeball ammo, read from an ammo box AND case headstamp)!.

Thank you for this opportunity to clarify my previous post.

LLanero



edited for spelling/cutandpasting/culling of overly bitchy statements/etc.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 6:41:18 AM EDT
Post pics please. Fired, and unfired casings.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 4:00:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
What were the problems with the .45 ACP? FTF, FTE, loading problems?

I've been thinking of picking up some to try with my 1911.



My 1911 HATED the Wolf ammo. Do yourself a favor, and get some quality surplus stuff, or some S&B, or Fiocci, anything but the Wolf crap.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 9:05:01 AM EDT
Check your headspace! It could be a problem OTHER than the ammo.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 5:29:12 PM EDT
I am sure the Germans in WWII thought Russian ammo sucked too, in fact they probably wished it was even worse.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 10:23:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 6:39:12 PM EDT
The Barnaul ammo sticks in my Dad's Remington 700 as well--he's hatching plans as I type on how to get rid of the stuff.
So it's official! No russophobic bigotry here, just the plain truth: This .30/06 ammo sucks biggreendonkey@#%$.

And BTW, Gewehr, the only thing that sucked worse than this Russian ammo was the Russian winter of '41/'42 and Hitler's flawed campaign strategy.

Meplat--as soon as I get the scanner on line (which may take awhile) I'll post pics of the '06 ammo.
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