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Posted: 7/18/2003 6:34:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 1:56:03 PM EDT by dnra]
Heres the scoop. I HAD a nicely "set up" savage10fp with a www.varminthunters.com Sharpshooters supply OH., kevlar coated, foambased stock. The stock has alumnium pillar's and stud inserts allowing for a FF barrel. NOW.....the barrel is touching at the extreme tip/underside of the forearm to the point it chipped the stk less than the size of a bb in that spot. I loosened* only, then retightened, the action screw first, then the forearm screw to no avail. I'm no gunsmith , only a tinkerer.........any suggestions/thoughts before its off to the GS.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:49:46 PM EDT
If the barrel is touching the stock inside the barrel channel you can do this yourself.

Remove barreled action from the stock.Use a round wood dowel about 3-4 inches long wrapped around 240-320 grit sand paper.

Wood dowel should be same size or slightly smaller than the barrel.

You can remove a little material at a time untill barrel is free floated again.

Remove a little material then install barreled action and check it.Do this untill barrel is free floated again.

Here's a tip for installing trigger gaurd screws.Tighten front screw to 15ft lbs and the rear to 10ft lbs.

It'll then shoot like it should again.Post update when you're done.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:50:02 AM EDT
Was the barrel touching when the action and stock where orignially assembled? If not, the stock is probably changing shape due to the sequence the plies in the stock were layed up; it's got an unsymmetric layup that will warp when the temperature changes. Kevlar is a poor choice for a stock laminate where maximum stiffness is desired, if not required.

The pillars could also be pulled loose - caused by more or less the same problem - poor stock design by a builder that doesn't understand the fine points of composite design and construction, or joint design.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 2:10:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 2:13:53 PM EDT by dnra]
I went to the GSmith today. This is how he fixed it w/in 1 hr. OK, like you suggested he removed the barrel/action, and wrapped a barrelsized broomstick w/diffrent grades of sand paper and went at it. Then he dremmeled a little, then back w/the sanding. Heres the trick after a lot of fitting.. HE"D COAT THE UNDERSIDE OF THE BARREL W/PRUSSION BLUE, or he said food coloring w/vasoline would work too. THEN he'd reinstall the barreled action and TAP it .....where the barrel was touching would be readily apparent on the stk. by the Prussion blue. This was on a FOAMBASED/ALUMNIUM PILLARED/KEVLAR COATED STOCK! I imagine it would work on almost any type of stk as such.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 6:07:02 PM EDT
Out of curiosity:

How many plies of fabric did the gunsmith sand through? If the stock isn't repainted, you should be able to count the individual plies along the edge of the sanded region.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 4:11:30 AM EDT
AeroE,...Well I do not know about "plies". I watched the whole process. The barrel was only touching/REEEELTIGHT at the 6'oclock position forearm tip, he simply sanded /dremeled about 2-3 inches back from the tip, refitting after every minute or so till it was done. It was refinisished w/a indembinal black marker at the edge by me. Fits and looks perfect.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 9:43:28 AM EDT
dnra-Glad to hear you got a good gunsmith there.They're hard to find these days.

At least you won't need to sue me.

I do this same thing on Rem.700's because they have a square block at the front sling swivel screw.This needs to be done to free float the barrel.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 12:10:47 PM EDT
Okay - how much thickness did the gunsmith need to remove at the bear-up; was it just a hair, say 0.005 to 0.010 inches, or was it more like 0.030 inches or more?

The reason I ask is because if only a few thousandths had to be removed, the finish paint, primer, gel coat, or whatever surface finish is on the stock could have been sanded away. If the thickness was 0.020 to 0.030 or more, then I have to believe some of the kevlar plies used to laminate the stock were sanded through affecting its structural integrity, or it has way too much resin on the surface of the laminate, or something fishy is going on with the way the stock is fabricated.

If you are happy with the stock, great; I'm just curious about some of the details of the stock construction.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 3:16:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2003 3:21:15 PM EDT by dnra]
www.varminthunters/sshooter.com I think this is the link to the exact stock. The kevlar coating on the stk. was definately compramised(sp). He tapered the depth of the fix, deep enough at the forearmtip to braze away the 1/2bb sized chip then 2ish inches in . What remained looked like a undercoating in grey primer. AeroE, thats a good point. I do not think the sanding will affect its "Structual Intergrity". Time and rounds will tell.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 6:01:48 PM EDT
Since there's no contact on that area,stress or integrity is not an issue.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 6:43:53 PM EDT
Depends, I'll assume this is near where the front studs might be. You attach a bipod to it, sure as shit it's going to 'stress' it.. :)
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 10:13:36 PM EDT
dnra said material was removed 2-3 inches from the tip not 8-10 inches where MOST bipods are installed.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:44:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2003 9:43:08 AM EDT by BuLLet]

Originally Posted By shephard:
dnra said material was removed 2-3 inches from the tip not 8-10 inches where MOST bipods are installed.



None and I mean none of the synthetic stocked bolt guns I have are that way.

Here's a few of mine, all measured from the tip

PSS LTR 2 of them... bipod stud about 2 inches

PSS... bipod stud about 2.5 inches

Winchester Stealth... Single stud about 2.5 inches

FN SPR, sporting a McMillan A3... bipod stud about 2 inches

Custom 700, sporting a McMillan M40A-1(HTG)... bipod stud about 2 inches

I even took a look at some of my wood stocked hunting rifles and none of them were anywhere near 8 to 10 inches...

edited to add some visual proof.. :)

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=756&w=searchPop
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 8:48:13 AM EDT
Part of structural integrity is stiffness - if too much material is removed from the barrel channel, the stock will still contact the barrel while on the rest if too much material is removed (admittedly, this would be the extreme case).

Take the stock in your hands and compress the forearm and barrel between your fingers to see how little force is required to get contact.

In fact, virtually every composite and injection molded stock on the market has insufficient stiffness in the forearm unless a bedding block is installed that includes an extension into the forearm. In addition, Kevlar reinforced plastic is an extremely poor choice where high stiffness is desirable (like in the forearm of a rifle stock).
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 10:14:39 AM EDT
Bullet-I meant to say 6-8 inches.My mistake as I was thinking of something else while typing a reply.The AR15 is a fine example of such different mounting points.Anywhere from the barrel to the handgaurd.Of course you'll say this is not true either.

AeroE-you are correct in checking the stiffness on the forearm.

It is suggested that some bipods use a seperate stud (behind sling swivel) for mounting bipods.With many types on the market there's also different mounting hardware which go with them.

Parker Hale style,Harris style,Quick Detach,etc.

I have built custom rifles for Customs Agents,FBI,and Border Patrol.There's no 2 people alike in regards to needs.

I've installed them on sling swivels to 9" behind the stud.When mounted further back on the stock a person can adjust the angle of sighting point much faster because center of mass is closer to the shooter (from BIPOD).

In any installation of a bipod or such,STRENGTH of the mounting point should always be taken into consideration for a job done right.In the case of the above stock fiberglass or other material can be added.

Hey BULLET-You may want to read the original post by dnra (because I don't think you did).He didn't say anything about mounting a BIPOD.I can only ASSUME you had a bad day or you enjoy walking on others (or try to).

AS FOR THE INTEGRITY OF THE STOCK HE"LL HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITHOUT A BIPOD.Geeeez,some people should read and think before responding to something.

Link Posted: 7/24/2003 12:21:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2003 12:22:16 PM EDT by BuLLet]
Gee Shep, I was only making mention to the possibility of what might happen if a bipod was added. Not that he was going to for sure, I don't know in the least. But, if he was going to add a bipod that 2-3 inch portion of the stock would be majorly stressed from it. That's all, nothing more then that. Don't take it too personal. But hey, apparently you're the expert on this and with all the gun building you're doing, I'll defer to you as to where to properly install a bipod stud. I'm sure you know more then remington, winchester, and mcmillan combined, since apparently they are putting it in the wrong spot, two to three inches off the tip. And of course let's not forget putting it 'behind' the sling swivel. Yeah, that makes loads of sense.

Oh when you get a chance please do show us some of these weapons with the stud for a bipod set back 8-10, err.. 6-8 inches from the tip, I'd love to see those. And if you can also manage how about a pic showing bipods installed behind the sling swivel.

By the way just so your no longer confused in the least, I read the entire thread and made a valid point about possible stress in the area where material was removed.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 7:35:38 PM EDT
Yeah O.K. enough already.

Of course one only needs to look at the link you provided to see what I was saying.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 7:48:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shephard:

Of course one only needs to look at the link you provided to see what I was saying.



Keep repeating this over and over, maybe it'll come true. 8-10 inches, laugh!
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 8:37:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shephard:
dnra said material was removed 2-3 inches from the tip not 8-10 inches where MOST bipods are installed.



Where are you getting these magic guns? Are they custom builds or factory seconds?

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Gee Shep, I was only making mention to the possibility of what might happen if a bipod was added. Not that he was going to for sure, I don't know in the least. But, if he was going to add a bipod that 2-3 inch portion of the stock would be majorly stressed from it. That's all, nothing more then that. Don't take it too personal. But hey, apparently you're the expert on this and with all the gun building you're doing, I'll defer to you as to where to properly install a bipod stud. I'm sure you know more then remington, winchester, and mcmillan combined, since apparently they are putting it in the wrong spot, two to three inches off the tip. And of course let's not forget putting it 'behind' the sling swivel. Yeah, that makes loads of sense.


anything pushing upwards on the stock especially a bipod adds stress. you are correct and our friend is wrong



Oh when you get a chance please do show us some of these weapons with the stud for a bipod set back 8-10, err.. 6-8 inches from the tip, I'd love to see those. And if you can also manage how about a pic showing bipods installed behind the sling swivel.

By the way just so your no longer confused in the least, I read the entire thread and made a valid point about possible stress in the area where material was removed.


that would be an odd setup
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 9:07:29 PM EDT
Guys, I sold this to him, its all supported buy reciept's. Its a low budget TARGET MODIFIED Savage 10FP firearm in.308Win. It has a bipod installed before where the GSmith sanded/fitted the FF barrel.He and I are cool as to what probably happened and the fix.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 9:29:16 PM EDT
So the bipod stud is in that 2-3 inch area? Or as shep says, 8-10 inches?
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 4:18:14 AM EDT
The bipod is attached aprox. 3-4inches back. Slightly before where he started sanding.
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