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Posted: 6/4/2003 7:18:27 PM EDT
Grandfather came over this morning to drop of a blade for the lawn mower. While he was here,(6:00am) I decided to show him the preban Mini 14 I picked up saturday. With OUT checking to see if the chamber was clear or not, I sat it on the bed and wiped it off. Then one way or another I pulled the trigger and you know what happened. POWW, a 55gr Wolf round went through my bed/matress, bedroom wall, cabinet in the bathroom, and bathroom wall. Missed 2,000+rnds of .308 and a loaded CETME. Closest neighbors are 75yrds behind me and no LEO showed up. The cabinet in the bathroom is shit now and needs replaced.
So..... let me have it. Let myself and others learn a thing or two.
Now, that was more penetration than I expected from the .223, and it was not load.
I practice responsable ownership/safety. Thought I knew what I was doing. Could have injured my 69yr old grandfather, my dog and myself. Even my neighbors were at risk. I feel like shit and thought I would post this to..... I dont know. If anything siilar to this has happened to you, please share. Thanks for hosting the pics Mbsk bro. Jason

A few pics photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Default.asp?sView=T&iGalleryUnq=794&
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:40:30 PM EDT
DAMN BRO! Glad to hear that everything is okay.

God willing, I have never had a ND and hope the trend continues.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:42:51 PM EDT
Been nice knowing you, meat.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:45:26 PM EDT
Wont beat you up -- all it takes is a second of complacency and BANG. Happens to many at some point -- just let it be your reminder to........ pick up gun, check chamber....pick up gun, check chamber....pick up gun, check chamber.............
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:58:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:03:09 PM EDT
are you married? if so, you need to plan on telling your wife in a way that she lets you keep the guns.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:04:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:16:25 PM EDT
Shit happens. I once shot a whole in my father-inlaws new truck. A 7mm mag does a lot of damage to an f-150 door panel.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:17:50 PM EDT
Glad things in the end turned out ok.
The brain is a strange thing and can get you in a lot of trouble. Just like when you leave home and can't remember if you locked the door or closed down the garage door and circle the block to double check. Or the whole deja vu thing that happens to people, where they could swear they've been in the exact place doing the same exact thing again, but at a different time.

My point is, check and double check the chamber, because the first time you checked it, you really didn't. The voices in your head just told you that you did!

Of course in this case, your brain failed you, by not making you check the chamber in the first place.

Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:31:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:37:54 PM EDT
Accidental discharge my ass, that's a negligent discharge.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:43:21 PM EDT
What ever you want to call it, I fucked up.
To tell you the truth, I dont remember hearing a thing, was just shocked at the time. Jason
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:12:03 PM EDT
Hey, don't feel too bad. It happened to me too. It was a Glock 21. I was on the 2nd floor and it shot through to the 1st floor.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:15:53 PM EDT
Hmmm... I thought the pics were going to be of the accidental discharge in your grandpas' pants after seeing his grandson do such a stupid thing.

Although, kudos on the huge brass balls it took to admit such a thing!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:17:06 PM EDT
No ADs for me ever.

Look on the bright side though. Now you have bullet holes in your house that you can show all your friends. Or mabey not...

Either way no one can bitch/complain/argue with you about the lack of penetration from .223 anymore.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:47:30 PM EDT
Remember this incident always.
Every gun should be treated as if loaded.
Happy that it was only property damage and not a fatality, it sucks to be a statistic.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 11:26:22 PM EDT by desertmoon]
That is the most important thing about following the four rules of gun safety...they cover each other in case of a slip up...the more you handle weapons the more likely you are to expose yourself to a situation that may include an accident...at least you WEREN'T pointing at grandpa and luckily the multiple walls soaked up the impact....WHEW!!!! I bet from here on out you will be double careful.

At least you fessed up and took your medicine like a man. Hey....I did it once myself. Put a hole clean through an Auto Mag poster I had on the wall. Never happened again. We are only human.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:35:05 PM EDT
About eight years ago I rewarded a hard-working employee with ParaOrd .45. Within five - countem five - minutes he had loaded the weapon and drilled his desk !! Whole damn office hit the deck and I think I got down first. I wish I could stop here but some months later he was closing his store when he sensed danger lurking in the shadows and proceed to put two shots in a dryer that was apparently preparing to attack. At that point I bought back the .45 !!

Absolutely a true story.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:59:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 11:59:58 PM EDT by desertmoon]
Oh GOD!!!! He's lucky....I got mugged by a dryer in Atlanta once....terrifying!!!!!

In all seriousness it's a good thing you bought it back. There are some folks who just shouldn't own a gun...sounds like he was one of them.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:31:00 AM EDT
Two NDs first was an old 8mm Lebel 1886. Had some "snap cap" rounds made out of .348 win brass, and a couple of realy realy old Hotchkiss rounds that had never gone off before in my experience. I had shown my dad and he had been fooling around with it earlier in the day, but I'd left only the snap caps in it so I wasnt thinking about it when I went to pull the trigger assembily off in the basement shop and BOOM, luckily I'd been minding my muzzle and it ended up through an outside wall and into the dirt about a foot away from the house.

The second time I'd been adjusting a trigger on my Mossberg 46B after sniping at some varmits from my appartment window when I was in school. Appearently I adjusted it a little light because after finishing I locked and loaded and blew out my thermal pane window. Never ever again will I discount the .22LR as a weak round. It burried itself in the concrete foundation of an outbuilding 50 yards away. I dont lock and load until I'm on the range anymore. Even my carry gun stays chamber empty.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:52:36 AM EDT
I'll bet Grandpa wanted to take you out behind the house and start your gun safety training all over again. Look at the bright side though....it could have been a 300 Mag.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:44:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:32:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
About eight years ago I rewarded a hard-working employee with ParaOrd .45. Within five - countem five - minutes he had loaded the weapon and drilled his desk !! Whole damn office hit the deck and I think I got down first. I wish I could stop here but some months later he was closing his store when he sensed danger lurking in the shadows and proceed to put two shots in a dryer that was apparently preparing to attack. At that point I bought back the .45 !!

Absolutely a true story.



I know this is serious stuff, but man that's funny.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:41:12 AM EDT
I was all done cleaning a 10/22 and left the room for about 20 minutes to find a case and in the time frame one of the roommates came in and stuck a loaded mag in the rifle and then set it back on the table.

I finally found the case I was going to ship it in, so I returned to the room sat down at the table with the case in front of me. I picked up the rifle pointed it away from me and peered through the scope at the TV. BAD GUY on TV, with out taking my eye from the scope I reached up and racked the bolt and pulled the tigger.BYE BYE TV .

I was stunned, I couldn't figure out WTF. I had just cleaned the rifle. I knew it wasn't loaded for sure. I thought I screwed up and put a mag in. Just then the roommate comes running in WTF.

He nows very little to nothing about guns. I had taken him shooting with this rifle once so he knew how to load it. HE say " Thank god it was you and not me ? " I asked what ? " He said "I was just playing withit it a few minutes ago " He put the mag in.

Awful hard to get mad at someone else when you shot the TV. I made the mistake and I have learned from it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:13:10 AM EDT
i think it happens (unfortunatly) to just about everyone. when i was in high school i was at a friends house and we were going to go shoot some birds. my friend got out his dads 20ga and started swinging it around the living room. i said, dude is that thing loaded? he said, naw man. look... BANG!! shot a hole through the couch and damn near killed his dog who "mysteriously" didnt hear to good soon after.
we both learned a valuable lesson that day.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:41:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
I was all done cleaning a 10/22 and left the room for about 20 minutes to find a case and in the time frame one of the roommates came in and stuck a loaded mag in the rifle and then set it back on the table.

I finally found the case I was going to ship it in, so I returned to the room sat down at the table with the case in front of me. I picked up the rifle pointed it away from me and peered through the scope at the TV. BAD GUY on TV, with out taking my eye from the scope I reached up and racked the bolt and pulled the tigger.BYE BYE TV .

I was stunned, I couldn't figure out WTF. I had just cleaned the rifle. I knew it wasn't loaded for sure. I thought I screwed up and put a mag in. Just then the roommate comes running in WTF.

He nows very little to nothing about guns. I had taken him shooting with this rifle once so he knew how to load it. HE say " Thank god it was you and not me ? " I asked what ? " He said "I was just playing withit it a few minutes ago " He put the mag in.

Awful hard to get mad at someone else when you shot the TV. I made the mistake and I have learned from it.



RULE NUMBER 2,4,6,8,10,12,14 and so on:

NEVER POINT THE GUN AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:56:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:59:48 PM EDT by Shadowblade]
"Right next to the hole from the LAST TIME it happened".... Some people never learn...



Just kidding.

I bet you never have another one huh?

I haven't had an ND myself, but being in the room when another person had one was enough to make me to be paranoid for life.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:56:27 PM EDT
2 AD's for me
1'st ....was a 950 beretta slide(with the barrel fliped up I racked the slide...it launched across the room and wiped out a sliding glass door....
2'nd was a 22 mag in a Ruger pistol while swapin the cylinders...shot from 1'st floor into second.....

# 1 rule ....be safe......#2 shit happens
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:20:29 PM EDT
Wish I could say never happened to me but---
1) Take loaded Ruger SP101 .357 out and dump
Live rounds into hand.
2) Out of habit glance at cylinder (of course I
had just dumped the rounds so this was only
a double check)
3) dry (not!)fire click,click,KABOOM!!
4) .357 snubby is real loud .
5) 125 JHP will penetrate hardwood floor,subfloor
and diagonally 4*-" thru 2X8 joist
6) Very mellow yellow lab sleeping on bed 3 or 4Ft
from gun at the time never moved so fast !

I know better but ya got to THINK!!
dumb dumb dumb I was lucky it could
have been real bad !
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:07:45 PM EDT
Thank you for sharing this.

BTW, can you change your state of residence below you avitar to WV or PA?

jk
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:22:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate:
Hmmm... I thought the pics were going to be of the accidental discharge in your grandpas' pants after seeing his grandson do such a stupid thing.

Although, kudos on the huge brass balls it took to admit such a thing!



It's not grandpa, but picture #9 might be pornographic enough for you.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:38:09 PM EDT
Oh boy, count your lucky stars, no one was hurt.

Personally, I have only 2 loaded guns in my residence, the rest, I don't load until I get to the range.

But I always treat them as loaded, because my friend had an AD because he didn't know his FRIEND has loaded it and didn't unloaded when he put it down, and my friend came along, BLAM! So moral of the story treat every gun as though it is loaded, until you personally check.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:55:32 AM EDT



Link Posted: 6/7/2003 10:43:40 AM EDT
Glad no one was injured. I always treat a gun as if it was loaded till I could prove otherwise. I work the action several times and look into the chamber to make sure it's not still loaded.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 11:17:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2003 11:20:04 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By armabill:
Glad no one was injured. I always treat a gun as if it was loaded till I could prove otherwise. I work the action several times and look into the chamber to make sure it's not still loaded.


Still not good enough. At my old indoor shooting Santa Anita Firing Range, Monvrovia, Calif.(20 miles east of L.A.), my friend and worker who has been around gun since he was very young, took back a rental lever-action Rossi tube feed 22LR rifle. Pump the lever and pulled the trigger several times to clear it, and on the third time BANG! a round was hung-up in the mag, and didn't come loose until the 3rd pump of the lever. He shot a hole in the vending machine, they had to use a piece of friction tape to cover the very distinct bullet hole, because the machine was a leasee's. Moral of the story don't point a gun at any thing you don't want destroyed.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 4:06:51 PM EDT
I keep on pistol and the shotgun loaded at all times - the rest stay chamber empty. If the Indians are storming the fort so fast that I don't have time to rack a round I can fend them off with the .45 or 12 gauge.

Be careful!
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 8:40:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 8:49:21 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
With OUT checking to see if the chamber was clear or not,


Congratulations. You're alive. If you were my kid I'd beat the stuffing out of you.

What were you thinking?

Missed 2,000+rnds of .308 and a loaded CETME.
I guess you're a glutton for punishment. You're getting a second beating.

So..... let me have it. Let myself and others learn a thing or two.
I am truly glad you are alive, BUT:

I practice responsable ownership/safety.
No you don't! And yes, you should feel like toilet fodder. Let it sink in. Make no effort to shake it off or justify your actions. The only way you'll change is when you realize how deeply ingrained your bad habits are and make an unending quest to do better.

Be glad you're alive. Many who had similarly sloppy habits [like keeping a loaded CETME around] aren't here to post their experiences. They are now statistics.

- C_M

[edited to add:] Lest someone think I'm too harsh, I can't think of a single good reason to keep a loaded CETME. It has little or no place in home defense, as almost ANY other firearm choice is better.

And yes, I myself have had one AD/ND. I was pointing my pistol downrange at the target and speaking of good shooting technique to someone and I squeezed the trigger without thinking. In this case, my GOOD HABITS saved my butt.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 8:51:43 PM EDT
The only AD I ever had was when I first got my Uzi. It was pointed downrange, and thats where the round went. So, since I followed one of the 4 basic rules (never point at anything you don't want to kill or destroy) I'm not sure it counts. I've never had an AD that caused any damage. And nobody at the range had any idea I wasn't intending to take a single shot. Just 4 rules, follow just one and you won't hurt anything or anybody.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By az_larry:
The only AD I ever had was when I first got my Uzi. It was pointed downrange, and thats where the round went. So, since I followed one of the 4 basic rules (never point at anything you don't want to kill or destroy) I'm not sure it counts. I've never had an AD that caused any damage. And nobody at the range had any idea I wasn't intending to take a single shot. Just 4 rules, follow just one and you won't hurt anything or anybody.


I think there is 4 rules, because if you violate one of the rules, and are still abiding the rest of the 3, the only thing that is hurt is pride. Each rule is suppose to back up the other.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:38:53 AM EDT
Glad to hear that no one was hurt. I'm sitting here right now looking at a bullet hole that the teenager next door put in my ceiling.

Learn from this mistake and DON'T forget the lesson learned. In the words of Merlin in Excalibur, "For it is the doom of men that they forget."
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 11:23:06 AM EDT
I have never did it myself but I had it happen 3 times when I was there, once buy a dealer who shot a hole through all his paperwork, what an asshole, he knew the gun was loaded and still pulled the trigger, never went back to his shop. Second one was a buddy checked his gun to see if it was loaded and when he pulled the slide back and nothing came out, but what he forgot to do was take the mag out, he actually loaded the gun and aimed it at the ground and pulled the trigger. Third time was I took a guy hunting and he was loading his rifle and pulled the trigger and just missed my buddys truck and blew my eardrums out, this guy was a real screwball, not to mention I caught him with his safety off 3 time while in the woods before this happened, needless to say no more hunting with him. All 3 incidents scared the shit out of me but luckily nobody got hurt. Because of those incidents I now double and triple check my guns every time.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:07:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2003 9:08:16 AM EDT by Rickyj]


I practice responsable ownership/safety.
No you don't! And yes, you should feel like toilet fodder. Let it sink in. Make no effort to shake it off or justify your actions. The only way you'll change is when you realize how deeply ingrained your bad habits are and make an unending quest to do better.

Be glad you're alive. Many who had similarly sloppy habits [like keeping a loaded CETME around] aren't here to post their experiences. They are now statistics.

- C_M



Nicely said.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 10:40:08 AM EDT
you should be neutered so you can't pass your gene's on. mcole
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:52:00 AM EDT
Two ND's one my fault, one my trucks fault. First one with the very first handgun that I bought, a browning buckmark, sweet little gun. anyway me and a buddy were out shooting, and the cans kind of fell over, so we walk over to pick them up. left my finger on the trigger, so BAM. scared the crap out us, me bad. the second with the same buddy, went hunting at a piece of property that is 20 minutes from my business. he joined my at the store and we went in my truck, didn't see anything came back at nightfall. he has a remington 700 in .270, an old rem 700, the ones that the safety has to be off to open the bolt. When we left the ranch, I unloaded my gun, but did not pay attention to what he did. we get to the store and BOOM, new hole on the floorboard of my truck. the funny thing is the PD is right across the street and they didn't hear a thing.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 3:21:37 PM EDT
Just do better next time. Thanks for sharing the story though.

We could ALL use some reiteration of safety. Even you religious ones out there.

Cheers

H
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:10:25 PM EDT
Paul (listen up everybody) you've very wrong and I'll tell you why. Because there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. Guns can not be unloaded - EVER.

My Dad taught me that when my age was measured in single digits. That, and ALWAYS be aware of where that muzzle's pointed. That's your responsibility to never EVER let it be pointed at anything you don't intend to shoot.

There's no such thing as a safety, or an unloaded gun.

If you play with enough guns long enough you WILL have an AD. In 50 years I've had 4 (starting at age 6). Three of those were acutally mechanical failures. One was a brain fart.

Dad's two rules were always in affect. 2 wall's and 2 floors got ventillated, but nobody ever got CLOSE to being hit.

Dad always said, "It's always the gun that was unloaded that kills somebody."

You were lucky (so was I). As long as you remember they're always loaded and if you pull the trigger thery're going to fire, the worst you'll ever be out is some sheet rock.

The rest of you guys that are perfect, congratulations.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:23:09 PM EDT
Did you report it to the ATF??
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:33:40 PM EDT
If you handle weapons long enough, you will have a ND or an AD. Often times people who are most familar with firearms handling have some lapse and Bang ! I shot a hole in my roof with a improperly tuned 1911 when charging it from a magazine by hitting the slide release. Thank God I had it pointed in a safe direction.

I had a friend who retired from the Marine Corp, who was very familar with firearms safety, he some how shot himself in the knee with a CZ-75. I don't think he knew how it happened, or he did not admit to me if he did know.

Watch where your point your damn muzzles and keep your finger off of the damn trigger until you are on your intended target.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 11:24:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
With OUT checking to see if the chamber was clear or not, I sat it on the bed and wiped it off. Then one way or another I pulled the trigger and





Originally Posted By newbushmaster:
I practice responsable ownership/safety.

Didn't.


Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:17:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ark-and-spark:
Shit happens.

No it doesn't. That's a stupid attitude to have toward firearm safety.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:14:39 AM EDT
I agree that "shit happens" is a bs excuse used by someone who cant owe up to what they have done. I did NOT check, check, check, and check again like I and each and every firearm owners should/have to do. Check, check, check, and CHECK over and over. Cycle cycle cycle
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