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Posted: 5/9/2003 9:38:31 AM EDT
2" bbl, would you rather have 5 rds of 9mm or 5 rds of 38 Spl? I'd take the .38 Spl, simply because Cor-Bon makes some pretty beefy fodder for it. What are your thoughts?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:46:29 AM EDT
I had a S&W 940 in 9mm. I dont think the J frame was meant to take the 9's pressures as both of the ones I had, the one I bought and the one they replaced didnt last past 200 rounds. I sold the third one without shooting it. I dont think any 2" will gain you much but "flame" with hotter rounds. Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the smaller 9mm autos.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 11:00:42 AM EDT
I went with a 5 shot Titanium .38
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 11:26:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By W-W:
I went with a 5 shot Titanium .38



Yep.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:20:02 PM EDT
5 rds of .38+p's..bodyguard S&W......o yea
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:35:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AK103K:
Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the smaller 9mm autos.

]

I've been CCWing since I was 21 (29 now) and for the past 7 years I've carried a Glock 27.
However, in the past year or so I've been shooting wheelguns more and more. I've come to the conclusion that I shoot a DAO wheelgun better than I do pistols. Plus I don't have to worry about limp wristing or failures to feed. I don't need 10 or 11 rounds in my carry gun, plus its just too damn heavy.
I think a 5 shot ultralight 38 Spl is the perfect carry gun for me, although I'm looking into 45 & .41 caliber ultra lights as well.
The weight difference is not much (3-4 Oz) and its a much better man/beast stopper than any 9mm bullet can ever hope to be.




Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:22:08 PM EDT
I've carried a 1911 Government model or Commander for 20+ years now and never thought it was to heavy or hard to hide. I guess its what your used to and willing to put up with. I've never had a problem with limp wristing or failure to feeds. Revolvers can have their own special little horror problems too. I agree about the DAO revolvers, its the only way to shoot them. I think they should take the single action notch off the damn things myself. Out of a 2" gun, I dont know that the 9mm or 38 have any advantage over the other, but I think the 9 is hotter than the .38"s. It definitely is out of a "J" frame. Recoil always felt a lot hotter than +P 38's in mine.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 6:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 6:13:06 PM EDT by Meplat]
Old Colt Detecetive's Special. Stuff heavy .357 mags in it. (Yes it will eventually destroy the piece, but I will need it for at most two shots.

Otherwise, a bobbed .38/44 HD with the hottest, heaviest .38 Special loads I can cook up, thanks.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 8:01:28 AM EDT
I would go with a 9mm. The 9mm round is much more powerful than the 38Spl even in +P mode.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:00:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2003 9:03:31 AM EDT by Ross]
The 9mm in a revolver is a great round. A comparison of the paper ballistics is never accurate, as they rarely compare the rounds as is they are both fired out of revolvers. The 9mm itself is VERY hot compared to most .38spec rounds when actually fired out of the saem type gun. Also you don't need to worry about feeding, so ammo selection if pretty easy. You also take advantage of the many loads for the 9mm that have been developed recently and perform quite well.

In the end though I think the target won't be able to tell the difference.

That brings us to two factors that really do matter. With a 9mm revolver, the short 9mm cases clear a cylinder easily with the short stroke of the ejector rod that small frame revolvers have. That's not so with some .38s. The longer cases don't clear as well, or can get hung up, etc. Seen it in practice, so I assume it can happen in real life a well.

The other factor is the moon clips. Unless you're using a S&W 547, you will be using clips. Clips are faster than speedloaders, but they are more fragile as well. Clips or speedloaders take up about the same amount of room effectively, so that's not a big deal, but reloading with clips is almost as fast as reloading a semi with a spare mag. Also the clip assists tremendously in extraction.

Given the choice with all thing equal, I'd probably choose the 9mm. But all things are not equal. I would choose the gun first, then the caliber. Like I said, I doubt that the target(i.e. badguy) will be able to tell the difference in caliber. You want a gun you like first and formost. Then decide if it needs to be .38, .357, .41, etc.

All this being said, I carry a Colt Detective Special 6-shot revolver in .38 spec. I chose the gun first, and it happened (as most of them are) to be a .38. What's more important is I like the Colt, so I went with it.

I may be switching to an alloy receiver Colt, as the "Dick special" is a tad heavy, but I've been thinking about going with a different lightweight as an excuse to play with something new. In the end though no matter what I try out for CCW, I always return to the wheel gun sooner or later for a spell until the next new thing come along. I suppose that really means I shouldn't bother with the others, and frankly I haven't carried anything other than this for quite a long time.

Ross
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 12:16:06 PM EDT
Excellent post Ross, thanks for bringing up some important points that I overlooked. Extraction and ejection are certainly quicker with the 9mm round due to the case length.
Unfortuatly, over the past couple years I've perged my stable of 9mm weapons. It just wasn't large enough to do what I use my weapons for.
I may end up with a Taurus .45 ACP ultralight.
I'll have to wait until its released to try one out. thanks again.

Link Posted: 5/10/2003 2:28:21 PM EDT
Slacker: Glocks are very reliable autoloaders, but in just the few organized IPSC/IDPA shoots I have gone to I have seen some different types of failures from them, and from many other automatics. Putting effective stopping power aside (and I think the .38 can be loaded up sufficiently to do the job), when its for REAL and your ass is on the line, the guy with the jammed gun loses. The guy whose gun doesn't have any feeding, extraction, ejection, the possibility of accidental mag relase, etc. will beat the guy trying to clear his stovepipe. And all sorts of weird things happen, even in competition, when normally competent shooters get excited. In competition its interesting and pretty funny when the mag falls out the bottom of the gun at the wrong time. In a gunfight, you just got killed.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 3:27:41 PM EDT
I shot an IDPA meet once on a whim. I was at the range with a Colt Police Positive .38 spec, 4" bbl, no speedloaders. Everyone else had automatics. Now I love autos and have my share of super dolomite high dollar ones, and some great ones that are not so high dollar, but since I was just at the range with my revolver, that's all I had with me. Hmm, kinda like what would happen in a gunfight, huh? Run what ya brung...

Anyway, in a field of 21 I came in at 7th. That was with a six-shooter and reloading SINGLE rounds out of my pocket by hand. If I had speed loaders with me, I would have placed a bit higher, but the top tier shooters were so good there wouldn't have been much farther up I could have realistically gone. I would have ended with a better score, but the "pros" would have still kicked my butt.

I beat the others because of:

1)Training-I was shooting ALOT back then, close to 500rds a month and it was serious training.

2)Experience-While this was my first IDPA shoot, it's not like I was a newbie to competition or tactical shooting situations. I had more experience with rifles, but with sidearms it was evenly split between autos and revolvers.

3)I didn't make mistakes-Sure I look back and could have trimmed off all sorts of time here and there by not doing some dumb things, but in the end I hit what I aimed at and had NO JAMS, or failures in any way.

Notice I didn't mention hardware at all. Given the experience of the top shooters (like I called them, the "pros") I would have probably placed in the same spot. It was obvious that I didn't beat 14 other shooters because I had a revolver and they had Berettas, Sigs, M1911's etc., so in the end it was experience and training.

I've only shot IDPA once since then (three year break between) with similar results, only this time with a P228, so it's pretty obvious that hardware has little to do with the equation unless you're at the top and some equipment will give you an advantage.

Since that time I really haven't worried aobut what I was carrying. All the guns I own are high quality, and I know how to use them all well, and really that's all you need. Sure, I hem and haw about what to get next like everyone does, but in the end you will live or die in a gunfight because of what you do, not what you're carrying.

Ross
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 4:15:33 PM EDT
Ross: that is a good one. You've really covered all the bases.

If you have to practice a lot with a revoler, and you want a light weight carry piece, I probably would get two guns. One a steel practice gun to handle all of the stresses of practice and the equivalent in light-weight aluminum/titanium carry gun. The Smith Centenial and Chief Specials come to mind. Each of them come in a steel frame version, an aluminum frame and carbon steel and titanium cylinder. And each can be had in a aluminum/scandium 357Rem Mag frame. Of course you will pay the price for lightness in terms of dollars and recoil. So pick your poison carefully, and keep in mind what Ross said.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 4:07:58 AM EDT
357 is pretty rough out of any snub nose. I had a SW640 and got rid of it as it was just too painful with anything over @145 grains. It shot great and was very accurate. It loved 145gr 357 silvertips. Shooting 158 gr Samson JHPs was like smashing your hand with a hammer. Plus it was a little heavy too.. I had considered it for a backup piece.

now I have a a 940 snub. I like the moon clips and the fact that there is a wide variety of ammo out there in 9mm. Even with 124jhp +P+ it's not punishing and very accurate.

38s are great but once you train and practice enough any 9mm/40sw/45ACP auto is much more effective. However the 38 is great for those that want to undergo minimal practice and training. With the right ammo they will get the job done. Many problems with the 38 (as with a lot of calibers) is related to shot placement. Not many rounds offer a one shot hit in the arm or leg.

Another point that no one has brought up yet is grips.. good grips will really allow you to get the most out of your snubby....whatever caliber its in.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 4:27:44 AM EDT
MHPDblue,
I take it they got the bugs worked out of the 940? The problem I was having with mine was, it would refuse to fire at around 200 rounds and the gun had to be disassembled to remove the remaining rounds as the cylinder would not open. It appeared that the firing pin, or an extention of some sort associated with it was breaking and causing the gun to lock up. I'm wondering if it wasnt also a frame problem. This happened on the gun I bought and on the replacement they sent me. They did not "fix" my gun, but replaced it with a different one, which really made me wonder. I dont know if the 9mm is too hot for it or if they were just having problems with a new model as they had just come out with them at the time. After the second gun failed for the same reason, i got rid of the third I was sent. I did like the idea of having a 9mm revolver and the moon clips, especially as a backup type pistol, I just got soured on the problems it was having and lost all confidence in it. Revolvers have their own special little problems as to reliability and are not as problem free as some assert. You need to follow certain "reloading" rules and procedures to keep from having problems, especially in short barreled guns and you also need to use quality ammo. This really isnt an issue with a back up type gun that probably wont get to a reload, if one is even carried for it.(although it should have one.)
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:59:06 AM EDT
When I made that choice I went with the Colt Detective Special, 6 38SPL rounds. I have many 9mms but the Colt DS, with it's slightly larger grip when compared to the Smith Js and one additional round seem to give me the best compromise between concealability, control, capacity and performance.

CCW will always be a compromise. The best you can hope for is to find the right balance for you, your environment, risks, dress and habits.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 10:40:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slacker:

Originally Posted By AK103K:
Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the smaller 9mm autos.

]

I've been CCWing since I was 21 (29 now) and for the past 7 years I've carried a Glock 27.
However, in the past year or so I've been shooting wheelguns more and more. I've come to the conclusion that I shoot a DAO wheelgun better than I do pistols. Plus I don't have to worry about limp wristing or failures to feed. I don't need 10 or 11 rounds in my carry gun, plus its just too damn heavy.
I think a 5 shot ultralight 38 Spl is the perfect carry gun for me, although I'm looking into 45 & .41 caliber ultra lights as well.
The weight difference is not much (3-4 Oz) and its a much better man/beast stopper than any 9mm bullet can ever hope to be.




He's pretty damn good with a wheen gun too! If I had to pick between the two I'd say 38spcl. For all the reasons mentioned above.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:03:46 PM EDT
AK103K..
I guess they did. I was unaware that the gun had such problems. I bought it used from my buddy's buddy.. I know he put at least 500 round through it w/o a hitch.. I've put 250 round through it w/o any problems..

Alas I carry a G26 as my back up and off duty...pretty much the same size with 5 extra rounds and night sights.

I agree with you wheel guns have their own "Quirks"... ejector rods like to unscrew and jam/bind, screws and cylinder latches work loose and they are a pain in the ass to clean.

All carry guns should have a reload!
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:24:05 PM EDT
I went with a five shot Ti Taurus.

The advantages of a revolver mean that it will fire bullets of any shape - including wide mouthed hollow points that would be difficult to feed in an auto. The 9mm being an auto round you'll find plenty of auto safe ammo. If you hand load you can put whatever you want on your 9mm revolver rounds.

Being a rebated rim I believe that you'll be using moon clips for the 9mm.

A better answer is that there's nothing wrong with the .38 special to bother looking at a 9mm revolver. Mine enjoys some nice +P rounds that whack like a ton of bricks. People have been dieing on the end of .38 specials for many many years and hardly notice the difference between it and the other under-power round - the 9mm.

The .357 is powerful.

The .45 is powerful.

I wouldn't bet my life on a .38 or a 9mm if I had the choice to use the .357 or .45 (my upstairs and downstairs pistols). When I lived in Washington the .38 Spl was my carry gun in the summer time when clothing was light and the revolver needed to match.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:44:58 AM EDT
Gimme a nice snubbie, with some .38 wad-cutters anyday. Those things will hurt you.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 2:04:29 PM EDT
My vote goes to the .38 Airweight for all the reasons mentioned above. I have an aluminum one that weighs 14 oz. They've since produced a titanium one that goes 12 oz. and even a newer selenium model that goes 11 oz. (I think). These little buggers are great for CCW, especially in warm weather when you're not wearing a lot of clothing. You can easily slip one into your shorts pocket--feels like you're carrying a set of keys. I think S&W now makes an ultralight .357 magnum as well, which I'd like to get.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 3:49:33 PM EDT
My on duty backup weapon is a S&W 442 .38 Special.

That said, the 9mm has benifited more from advances in bullet designs, and the best 9mm ammo is significantly better than the best .38 ammo.

Another option is the .32 H&R Mag, which will give you one more round in a snubbie than the .38 or 9mm. The .32 mag uses a 85Gn JHP at about 1100 FPS or a 100Gn LSWC at about 990 FPS.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:13:14 PM EDT
I went with the S&W 340PD the Scandium .357 J-frame. I carry it everyday and I spend most of my day outside in Houston sticky weather. It fits perfectly in my front pocket in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. I looked at leather holsters, however I didn't want to go through them as fast as I go through leather wallets. Within about 4 months of summer carry, I sweat enough that I start to grow green mold on the inside of my wallets. The Uncle Mike's cloth holsters are cheap to replace once they get raunchy. The combo of aluminum, scandium and titanium also seem to stand up better to rust than steel does also. As many have mentioned, the lightweights are a handful with .357's. However I find them controllable and would rather have 5 .357's at my disposal.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:46:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 9:03:01 PM EDT by bolt]
Slacker my FRIEND, Thanks for the dec CRKT!.......I'd see what you like if you can any rental places around? Taurus has some nice "new" stuff. I usually buy second hand myself, a 357 (+38spl loads), A wheelgun of course, A nice 2"-3" snubbie in your choice of 'finishes'. You might like the new "airweights" "titaniams" etc., plus the odds of having to use it vs. carry weight might be more acceptable to you generally. Your pix of your workbench IIRC looked like you know how to put 'fun' things together. I'd think a snubbie 38spl/357 would handle CCW/CQCB situations "simply". GOOD LUCK!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:29:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bolt:
Slacker my FRIEND, Thanks for the dec CRKT!.......I'd see what you like if you can any rental places around? Taurus has some nice "new" stuff. I usually buy second hand myself, a 357 (+38spl loads), A wheelgun of course, A nice 2"-3" snubbie in your choice of 'finishes'. You might like the new "airweights" "titaniams" etc., plus the odds of having to use it vs. carry weight might be more acceptable to you generally. Your pix of your workbench IIRC looked like you know how to put 'fun' things together. I'd think a snubbie 38spl/357 would handle CCW/CQCB situations "simply". GOOD LUCK!



Glad your enjoying the CRKT. Santa must have been in a good mood that day
I ended up purchasing a taurus "Protector" in 38spl. 17.3oz, total titanium w/adjustable sights and a 2.5" bbl. Looking forward to "smoothing" it out. Next will be a S&W 625 4" bbl.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:45:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AK103K:
I had a S&W 940 in 9mm. I dont think the J frame was meant to take the 9's pressures as both of the ones I had, the one I bought and the one they replaced didnt last past 200 rounds. I sold the third one without shooting it. I dont think any 2" will gain you much but "flame" with hotter rounds. Personally, I think you'd be better off with one of the smaller 9mm autos.


I think your speculations regarding your 940 are correct. The 9mmPara round is a high-pressure round with pressures nearing that of 357Rem Mag. I think the 940 has a aluminum frame, and it won't take too many 9mm rounds before things start to break-up and shake loose. Even though i don't have a CCW in Calif, I bought a S&W 342 38Spl aluminum frame with titanium cylinder, it weighs 10oz empty. S&W also has a new 357Rem Mag scandium/aluminum alloy frame & titanium cylinder weighs 12oz. These lightweight revolvers are hand full to shot even with my handload target wadcutters(3.4 grains of Unique on a 148g wadcutter bullet.)
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 5:16:03 PM EDT
I've been carrying the S&W 342 Titanium Airweight .38 for about a year. It's a joy to carry, although a bit uncomfortable when firing hot +P ammo. I love it.
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