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Posted: 12/25/2002 12:16:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2002 12:17:06 AM EDT by freedom-fighter]
Just wondering if there is a chance they will go away.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 12:25:26 AM EDT
The high-cap ban is part of the 94 crime bill and will sunset in 2004. The 89 import ban was done by executive order by Bush senior and will not sunset.

Link Posted: 12/25/2002 8:04:36 AM EDT
The import ban is exectutive order and could be repealed instantly if Bush actually cared about gun owners. He will only do whats necessary to keep his butt in office so dont hold your breath.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 9:52:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2002 9:53:18 AM EDT by freedom-fighter]
So that means we can get new AR15 30rnd mags for dirt cheap and import new hicaps for assault rifles and handguns. Sweet. The price of Glock preban mags should drop like rocks.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 10:52:56 AM EDT
I think, if the sunset goes as hoped that you won't see a sudden drop in prices. I think they will taper down slowly as the mfg's will try to milk us with fresh offerings, but price wars will eventually drive the prices down.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 1:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2002 1:26:48 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
If I am not mistaken the 89-import ban was an interpretation of an executive order.

Bush never issued an executive order that expressly outlawed specific import items/weapons.

About the only way it could be over turned is by act of Congress or by the ATF changing its interpretation.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 6:33:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidC:
The 89 import ban was done by executive order by Bush senior and will not sunset.



That fargin bastage!
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 8:35:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
If I am not mistaken the 89-import ban was an interpretation of an executive order.

Bush never issued an executive order that expressly outlawed specific import items/weapons.

About the only way it could be over turned is by act of Congress or by the ATF changing its interpretation.



Do you know where one could review the text of that order?
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 2:55:12 AM EDT
From what I have heard the '89 import ban was later passed by Congress, I think '92 and it was codified in the '94 law. It should all go away if the AWban is not renewed.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 9:29:35 PM EDT
No way. Are you serious? You mean we might be able to import AW if the 94' ban is not renewed. Sweet! That's a big bonus.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:30:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By freedom-fighter:
No way. Are you serious? You mean we might be able to import AW if the 94' ban is not renewed. Sweet! That's a big bonus.



NO! NO! NO! No matter what happens with the '94 Ban, the '89 Import Ban will still be in effect!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pkennedy:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
If I am not mistaken the 89-import ban was an interpretation of an executive order.

Bush never issued an executive order that expressly outlawed specific import items/weapons.

About the only way it could be over turned is by act of Congress or by the ATF changing its interpretation.



Do you know where one could review the text of that order?




Ditto. I, too, would like to read the details. Reading the text of the '94 crime bill was very informative.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 7:33:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

Originally Posted By freedom-fighter:
No way. Are you serious? You mean we might be able to import AW if the 94' ban is not renewed. Sweet! That's a big bonus.



NO! NO! NO! No matter what happens with the '94 Ban, the '89 Import Ban will still be in effect!




Cite the NO NO NO..

Read the 94 law. I ran it by a lawyer friend and he told me all would go away if they follow the law or are forced to by the courts.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:03:58 AM EDT
This is an interesting enough question to warrant a post in the legal section in order to get some more opinions on executive order vs. 94 aw ban. I had never heard that the order was piggybacked onto the ban but if this is the case it could be very interesting for HK, sig, beretta, etc. fans.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:48:45 AM EDT
We need a blitz over the next year and a half to get the AW ban to die a self-inflicted death.

Too bad I live in a state that has a permanent version.

That sucks.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 9:03:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 9:09:02 AM EDT by shaggy]
The 1994 AWB has nothing to do with the import ban. Two seperate laws. The 1994 AWB is found in 18 USC 922(v), while the import ban is 18 USC 925(d)(3). There is little left to agency discretion in the 1994 AWB, but the import ban is another story. The law empowers the Secretary (of the treasury) to only allow the importation of sporting firearms. The excat definition of a sporting firearm, however, is left to BATF to determine, thus they have great lattitude in determining what can be imported and what cannot.

Now,I am not 100% sure (because I've just been to busy and/or lazy to look it up), but I believe the "1989 import ban" as most people refer to it, is actually somewhat of a misnomer. I believe it was enacted as part of the Gun Control Act of 1968. It was by executive order that it was severly tightened up in 1989 when the president directed the Treasury to re-evaluate and adjust their definition of what constituted a "sporting firearm".

So even if the 1994AWB sunsets without revision or renewal, the import ban will still stand. In such a situation, a licensed importer could import weapons which would be "assault weapons" under the 1994 ban, but ONLY IF they weren't also precluded from importation by the 1989 ban. As it stands now, a licensed importer could do the same thing. There is no requirement that a preban under the 1994 AWB be in the US; if it was manufactured, legally owned, and met the definition of an "assault weapon" under the 1994 law, it is a preban, even if its been sitting in an HK warehouse in Germany for 10 years. The only thing preventing all those foriegn semiauto HK's, AK's, and AUGs from being imported is the import ban - the 1994 ban does nothing to keep those weapons out of the US. The 1994 ban only proscribes the manufacture, transfer, or possession of assault weapons, not their importation.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 9:13:29 AM EDT
Then I suppose my next question (as someone who does not have a copy of the import ban in front of him) is does the ban list the weapons by name or is it a list of features. Can an HK94 be renamed the "house-cat-hunter deluxe" and imported? The domestic companies were obviously succesful in doing this by renaming their AR15's...
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 10:43:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
Then I suppose my next question (as someone who does not have a copy of the import ban in front of him) is does the ban list the weapons by name or is it a list of features. Can an HK94 be renamed the "house-cat-hunter deluxe" and imported? The domestic companies were obviously succesful in doing this by renaming their AR15's...



Nope, no list of weapons by name. Nor is there any statutorily mandated method of determining what is sporting and what is not. BATF (actually the Treasury Dept.) gets to make the system by which they define what is sporting and non-sporting. That is, because they promulgate their own regulations, they have the ability to decide what features make a firearm sporting or non-sporting. And they can change that system at the drop of a hat if they wish, as long as there is a logical system for making the determination of what is sporting or non-sporting and the system does not cross the line of arbitrary and capricious.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 1:10:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Cite the NO NO NO.

Read the 94 law. I ran it by a lawyer friend and he told me all would go away if they follow the law or are forced to by the courts.



It appears that Shaggy has pretty much summed it up. I'll go one step further and say that even if the '94 Ban sunsets and is not replaced, it will still be ILLEGAL to add "evil" features to post-ban imports already in country such as Romanian SAR-series rifles.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 2:54:17 PM EDT
Can anyone post a link to actual text?
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 4:03:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:17:29 PM EDT
Yeah, Troy, my bad. The SAR's were the first post-ban AK rifle to come to mind. Another good example would be the Steyr USR. Even if the '94 Ban sunsets it would still be illegal to convert a USR to AUG configuration by adding a flash suppressor or bayonet lug.
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