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Posted: 11/30/2002 6:42:19 AM EDT
I am starting to get the itch for a a heavy barreled target...oooh...dare I say..."sniper" rifle.

My first inclination was a 700 PSS. But the more I thought about it, the more I would like something a little more "personalized." Here is what I am contemplating:

1. Built on a Czech Mauser VZ-24 receiver.

2. Heavy, wood stock. Looking for something with about the same amount of shaping and inletting as found on a black powder rifle kit...like I experienced with my Thompson/Center Hawken. Found a few potential manufacturers on the 'net. Any recommendations?

3. Barrel recommendation? I am thinking along the lines of a 26" heavy barrel. Will in all likelihood go .308, though may consider .300 Winmag.

4. How much should the gunsmithing run to have the barrel mounted and receiver tapped for optics?

5. Trigger recommendation?

I have read that synthetic stocks are inherently more accurate as they do not expand/contract with various weather conditions. Is this really a concern? I have a strong bias towards a heavy wood stock simply out of aesthetic considerations. However, I if I do take on this project, I am hoping to get something that will shoot at worst 1 MOA. Am I dreaming?

I am sure I am missing a few major points. What are they?

Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you for your time.
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 7:03:17 AM EDT
EVERY shooter wants to build their own Ultimate

Precision/Target/Sniper Rifle.

Trouble is , most of it's been done before.
I'm in the market for a precision rifle too,
and I'm still educating myself

Here's a good place to start-
www.brownprecision.com/default.htm
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 1:09:14 PM EDT
BTDT, Zippy, so be prepared to go broke, LOL!

Here's what I've learned:

-- Don't use a Mauser action. First off, the quality of the metal treatment 50 years ago, plus the unknown factor of what the action may have gone through in the last half-century, mean it's WAY harder to make accurate, and may even be unsafe, particularly with a high-pressure round like .300 WinMag.

In particular, the Mauser factories used slightly softer metal and then a very hard heat-treating. This left an extremely hard, rigid but very thin surface. So when you drill-and-tap it for scope mounts and to remove the stripper-clip charging hump, you will bust a bunch of bits ... and also weaken the receiver by removing part of the thin hard surface. Plus, if you polish the receiver in preparation for refinishing, you're weakening it. I have seen beautifully built M98 sporters whose actions have "stretched" enough to make them unsafe to fire. And this problem can't be fixed.

And then there's cost: Sure, you can get a VZ24 action cheap. But then you need to drill-and-tap for the scope ($60-100); bend, reform or replace the bolt handle to clear a scope ($75-150); replace the safety with one that clears a scope ($35-$200); replace the two-stage military trigger ($50-$150); and refinish the works ($100-$200).

It's way cheaper to just buy an NIB Winchester or Remington at Wal-Mart for $389 and sell off the stock and barrel. It's safer, too. And if ya want a .308 you can buy a short action, instead of trying to use the long Mauser action.

-- Wood stocks -- I love 'em. Yup, lotsa sources out there, depending on how much you want to spend. Wood SOMETIMES has problems with shifting point of aim due to humidity -- if you build the gun in dry conditions and then take it hunting in the rain, the humidity can make the wood "swell" and change the pressure on the barrel. However, if you glass-bed the action and completely free-float the barrel, all you have to watch is to make sure the wood doesn't swell and touch the barrel. If you put a good waterproof finish on the entire stock, INCLUDING the barrel channel, you'll prolly be OK.

A good budget would be $300 net for a new action (as above); another $300 for a quality Douglas or Shilen barrel, installed with a trigger job; $100-$200 for a new stock, depending on how much figure and how much work you'll do yourself; then the cost of a scope and scope mounts.

Hope this helps!
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 6:37:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2002 12:50:11 PM EDT by bondo]
Sarco is selling Parker-Hale target barrels right now chambered in 308 and threaded for mauser actions. Only about $40. They also have commercial bolts and triggers(complete) Mausers are good actions if you do most of the work yourself,if you have to farm it out it gets expensive. Here is a source for stocks-www.rifle-stocks.com/target_style's.htm
I have a Turk action that I sporterized with a Midway stainless fluted heavy barrel in 308. The first group I fired with it was 3/4" using Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Gunsmiths charge from $5 to $15 per hole to drill and tap for scope mounts. You can usualy get mounts and rings (Redfield) on sale from Natchez for about $10 per pair. I,T&D Custom Gun in Ohio will install and headspace your threaded-chambered barrel for about $50.Polish and blue will run about $75 www.brownells.com/Product/index.asp
Tactical bolt knob from Brownells-$30 part#093-000-007
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 6:48:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2002 6:56:07 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Look at Lilja Barrels. 3 groove.

Also if your going to go Mag (would recommend it, look at 300 Remington Short or Winny Short, also look a Lazerroni) stick with a big name like Dakota and/or Lazzeroni.

Lazzeroini has a web site. Stay tuned for link.

Edited to add www.lazzeroni.com/

Also subscribe to Precision Shooter Magazine. Again please Stand by.

www.precisionshooting.com/
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 7:03:53 PM EDT
I am a Mauser type guy and my first recomendation is don't use a Mauser action for a precision rifle, but if you must take a look at the current C.Z. 550 with the single set trigger these actions run 400.00 to 500.00 depending on chosen length. On the stock I would take a good look at the heavy laminates you'll want the Beavertail forend. Now it just happens that the C.Z. 550 Laminate Varmit chambered in 308 WCF is available from C.Z. at a most affordable price check their website. One of my rifles was built on a Mark X it is a 300 Win Mag I went with a heavy contour Douglas Premium Air Guaged barrel, A McMillan stock( not the A-3 I wanted because it wasnt available for a Mauser at that time) and a 4.5x14 Leupold with Mil Dot Reticle. This is my favorite rifle, it is a sub .5 MOA rifle shooting of a Bipod, but I was somewhat limited on my choices due to the Mauser action and the trigger thats a whole new story.
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 7:30:36 PM EDT
Don't go some third world army surplus unless that's what you're after.

Read the rest of your post:

1. Don't do it.

2. Synthetic. Yes they're worth it. Take it on a moose hunt into Alberta, it will rain, it may snow, you will have to ride in a boat with your rifle. It will not only get wet it will get drenched.

3. Lilja, 3 groove stainless. See above.

4. If you buy the components assembly should be around $250. The barrel finished will be better than $400 and a good receiver will run you $500. That plus your stock should top it off at close $1500, $2000 tops (may be out dated on my pricing). It will shoot just as good as those $5000.00 rifles you see people ogling over.
Link Posted: 12/1/2002 5:05:55 AM EDT
I don't agree with the previuos posters, especially about pricing!

I am a gunsmith, and have built quite few Mausers that are quite accurate, and safe!

Prices:

Rebarrel $85 + cost of barrel

Drill and tap $30

Forge/polish handle $30

Adj. target triggr $35-$45

Low swing safety (not needed with a side safety type trig. which costs $45!!) $30

bed and float $40


The Parker Hale barrels from sarco have been good. I have built up 3 on Czech actions, and my personal gun is shooting 3/4" consistantly.


Balming
Link Posted: 12/1/2002 8:43:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Balming:
I don't agree with the previuos posters, especially about pricing!

I am a gunsmith, and have built quite few Mausers that are quite accurate, and safe!

Prices:

Rebarrel $85 + cost of barrel

Drill and tap $30

Forge/polish handle $30

Adj. target triggr $35-$45

Low swing safety (not needed with a side safety type trig. which costs $45!!) $30

bed and float $40


The Parker Hale barrels from sarco have been good. I have built up 3 on Czech actions, and my personal gun is shooting 3/4" consistantly.


Balming



Balming, your assemmbly price is $20 less than my estimate? I'm just recomending a new reciever, say Neke or a Mark V. Any good match barrel finished out will run you $400.
Link Posted: 12/1/2002 12:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Balming


The Parker Hale barrels from sarco have been good. I have built up 3 on Czech actions, and my personal gun is shooting 3/4" consistantly.


Balming



I,m glad somebody chimed in that has experience with these barrels. Can you tell us more about them-i.e. how heavy are they,what countour( compared to ,say, Rem Varmint contour?

Sorry ,zippy, don't mean to take over your thread
Link Posted: 12/1/2002 12:53:12 PM EDT
The Parker Hale barrels from Sarco ar $35 ea. if you buy 3, or about $40 if you buy 1.

Thy are from PH guns hat were found to have bad receivers, so they shitcanned the receivers and are selling the barrels. They are very hvy bull bbls, about .920 diameter all the way. 26" long. All bores looked brand new, and the throats were fine. I turned off about 1/8 from the bbl shoulder and face so when I finished the chamber it cuts he throat slightly anyway.

There are two holes near the muzzle where a front sight was attached, so I cut hem at 25" and put a recessed target crown on them ($35)

Action $79
barrel $40
bbl labor $85
drill&tap $30
forge handle $30
target trig $45
bed/float $49

$358 total if you use the existing stock. Aftermarket stocks will run you from $50 to $300 or so. You can get decent unfinished walnut ones from Midway very reasonable.


BTW, I just finished making one in 7.62x39. I'm not sure what I'll do with it, but I threaded the bbl 1/2x28 tpi with the idea of putting a silencer on it in the future, and loading hvy bullets to subsonic velocities. Right now it sports a birdcage FH. I used a bore of .308 instead of .310 so I could handload a wide variety of projos. It will still safely shoot th cheapo ammo though.
Link Posted: 12/2/2002 9:49:15 AM EDT
When it's all said and done, will it actually outshoot a 700PSS?? The 700 PSS has a H-S Precision stock with an aluminum bedding bar in it.
My 700 PSS shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups with handloads using 168 grain SMK's.
Link Posted: 12/2/2002 9:55:52 AM EDT
My best Mauser thus far would shoot 1/2 moa, the best group being .445". 1909 acion, ER Shaw bbl, 30-06. I shouldn't have sold it.

I guess the Mauser route is for those who don't have all the $$$ up front, and take pride in doing some of the work themselves, or who want a unique personalized weapon. You can buy a tactical Savage for the price you would pay for the Mauser, and chances are the Savage will have a smoother action!

Balming
Link Posted: 12/2/2002 4:15:52 PM EDT
my pss gets 1 hole groups at 100 using s. african ammo and a cheap tasco scope. i know iknow, but im saving for a leupold. but i have also considered a mauser for a cheaper percision rifle. please post more on what you decide and build.

later
lojack
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