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Posted: 10/9/2002 4:58:35 AM EDT
this is an excerpt from a list from the FBI/ATF..., did these EXPERTS miss any ????????

These are the rifles that can fire .223-caliber bullets, the kind recovered from sniper shootings in the Washington area, according to authorities.

Armalite AR-180
Browning Model BBR
Bushmaster: "Shorty" Carbine, "Dissipator" Carbine, "Target" Model Rifle, "V Match Commando" Carbine, "V Match Competition" Rifle, "DCM" Competition Rifle, "A3 Type Shorty" Carbine, "A3 Type Dissipator" Carbine, "A3 Type Target" Rifle, M17S "Bullpup" Rifle
Colt AR-15
IMI Galil
Remington: Model 788, Model 722, Model XP-100
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:53:39 AM EDT
Steyr Scout in .223 Rem.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:20:52 AM EDT
ah the ... Ruger Mini-14

nahh strike that, dude's been making hits at 140 yards ....
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:58:31 AM EDT
I'm guessing that it's going to turn out to be a single shot, or bolt action rifle. Just a guess. It sux that some nut case goes and does something like this right before an election....it's important that things go well in this election cycle because as long as we stay where we are, or retake the senate, a renew AWB is dead in the water.

Actually I have been suprised that their hasn't been the call for gun control to come out of this like I thought it would.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 7:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 11:40:30 AM EDT by monkeyman]
Let's not forget the H&R Handy rifles which are cheap single shots but are known to be very accurate.

I think CZ and/or Brno imported a bolt action 223 at one time and of course Ruger makes/made a bolt action .223.

SAR3, though I don't see them being used for sniping.

HK 93, or the other 223 sporter rifle (I can't remember the designation) made by HK in the 1980s.

FN made a military style 223 imported during the 1980s called the FNC. Looked like a smaller FAL.

Steyr AUG
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:22:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 8:24:06 AM EDT by AR15fan]
FNC
SAR
Valmet
Robinson Arms Expidition(Sp?)
Ruger Ranch Rifle
Crossfire
Too many Bolt action rifles to name...
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:56:12 AM EDT
Shotguns and/or larger caliber rifles with small caliber inserts.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:03:00 AM EDT
now fo the single shots:
H&R
Tompson Center Contender
Tompson Center Encore.
new barrels cost 200.00 for these guns so it's cheap for a sniper to get a new "signature"
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:17:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 10:23:44 AM EDT by SBR7_11]
Lets see, 22 centerfire, all capable of accepting a .223 bullet, although we really know you use .224 bullet in the listed cartridges.


224 BOZ
Accellerator--22 in a 30 cal sabot
22 HORNET
22 K-HORNET
218 BEE
221 FIREBALL
222 REM
223 REM
22 P.P.C.
22 BR REM
22-250 REM
220 SWIFT
Now we to figure a firearm to fire the cartridge in,,, ATF and others have a handfull of investigting to do.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:34:41 AM EDT
Mossberg SSi-One.

Duh....

Barrel can be changed to accept a shotgun barrel or another caliber cartrige.

Ed
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 10:47:25 AM EDT
Magnum Research Lone Eagle

Single shot pistol. Various calibers including the .223.

I've seen guys take 200 yd shots w/ these.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 11:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 11:38:23 AM EDT by monkeyman]
Some more...

Thompson Center Arms rifle
Rossi single shot
NEF single shot
Saiga
Howa bolt action
Charles Daly mini mauser
Savage bolt action
HK SL8 semi auto
Winchester 70
Weatherby bolt
Tikka bolt action
Ruger #1
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:06:33 PM EDT
I believe that it is probably some sort of medium priced bolt action varminter. Rem 700, Win 70 or a Savage. Possibly with a shorter barrel like a Steyr Scout. Maybe a Steyr if he or they make a good amount of money. The Scout would make a very ideal urban sniper rifle due to it's very compact size.

They should already know exactly what family of rifle the slugs came from. Groove pattern, twist and whatever markings are left on the casing that they found. A semi-auto would leave a tell tale ding and extractor mark on the case during cycling.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:26:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sodie:
casing that they found. A semi-auto would leave a tell tale ding and extractor mark on the case during cycling.



I think if his gun created much extractor marks etc, he certainly would not let any of his brass get away. If he was using an AR, he probably had a brass catcher on it, and the 223 cartridge he leaves behind is from another source.

I don't know enough about guns, I don't know whether you can determine the cardridge case a bullet came out of. Would we even be able to tell if it was a 22-250 and not a 223?
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 1:21:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
ah the ... Ruger Mini-14

nahh strike that, dude's been making hits at 140 yards ....



Hold on here,maybe he does not mean to shot people!
It may just be a guy at a gun range with a mini-14.
I always woundered where the rounds went from those went
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 1:54:22 PM EDT
The only case that I saw was Really tarnished. If the sniper fired that round he's lucky it went off.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:01:37 PM EDT
if i had to guess i would say:

IMI galil
styer AUG
IMI TAVOR
HK g36


yep, thats pretty logical

in reality, if i had to bet, i would say savage or winchester bolt gun. find a wal-mart that dont pack that 2-some.


a slight OT-

on national news, some gey ass news man said these rifles taht were likley used (pictured FN FNC, and minty colt sporter) are "easy to shoot accuratly without any training"

whats easier to shoot if you never handled a gun, a scoped rifle, or a ar15 with ar sights? someone should tell the army and marines thier wasting thier time, since those weapons dont require training <satirical rant off>
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:39:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Lets see, 22 centerfire, all capable of accepting a .223 bullet, although we really know you use .224 bullet in the listed cartridges.


224 BOZ
Accellerator--22 in a 30 cal sabot
22 HORNET
22 K-HORNET
218 BEE
221 FIREBALL
222 REM
223 REM
22 P.P.C.
22 BR REM
22-250 REM
220 SWIFT
Now we to figure a firearm to fire the cartridge in,,, ATF and others have a handfull of investigting to do.



218 bee uses .222-.223 bullets, as it was orginally a wildcat which used .22 rim fire barrels rechambered.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:48:54 PM EDT
I just hope it when the dude is caught that he using a black gun. I know gun control hasn't been a hot issue lately, but that don't mean it is dead. I think the media is really playing up the idea that the rifle in question is an "assault type rifle". I haven't heard any LEO from any agency say ya or nay and I believe they would be able to tell from the spent cases what type of rifle (meaning semi or not) was used. Hell, if CSI was on the case we would have a mug shot by now. Just kidding. I hope they catch the bastard real soon. 308WOOD, Iron Maiden rules.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:55:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uncleSAM:
I just hope it when the dude is caught that he using a black gun.



Why would you hope that? That would really fuel calls for renewal of the ban or an even greater ban.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:06:53 PM EDT
I'm no expert but I know that the Browning 1885 High Wall came in .223.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:09:40 PM EDT
I think some people type without proof-reading, and some words that appear in the mind do not make it to the keyboard. By reading the rest of the text, I'm guessing he's hoping the shooter isn't using an AR variant. The black rifle is so embedded in our culture that it is easily recognized by many that do not know guns. I'd hate to see it take flak because of the actions of some idiot.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:21:49 PM EDT

308WOOD, Iron Maiden rules.


Maiden
ar15.com topic
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:42:54 PM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Lets see, 22 centerfire, all capable of accepting a .223 bullet, although we really know you use .224 bullet in the listed cartridges.


224 BOZ
Accellerator--22 in a 30 cal sabot
22 HORNET
22 K-HORNET
218 BEE
221 FIREBALL
222 REM
223 REM
22 P.P.C.
22 BR REM
22-250 REM
220 SWIFT
Now we to figure a firearm to fire the cartridge in,,, ATF and others have a handfull of investigting to do.




dude i think you left out:

22 rem jet
22 savage hi power
222 rem mag
225 win
224 weatherby mag
219 donaldson wasp
219 zipper
5.6x57 rws
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:57:06 PM EDT
If it's an H&R Handi-Rifle, that would explain the one shots. I bought the rifle in 243, and it wouldn't eject. Not the extractor/ejector, think it was a rough chamber. Sent it back, while they had it, I had them send me a 223 barrel as well.
Take it to the range - 243 works beautiful. Slap on the 223 barrel, and wanna guess what happened?
...Das right. No extraction.

I want to like this rifle, but two in a row is frustrating.
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