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Posted: 10/8/2002 10:04:05 AM EDT
If you had to pick which one would you choose, and why.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 10:16:21 AM EDT
I prefer the USP series over most 1911's...however, if you're not going to put a supressor on the HK Tac....why bother with it? Just get the full sized USP. Why have a threaded barrel that holds nothing, except possibly snagging while trying to draw it in an emergency?

1911's are certainly easier as carry guns due to the slim profile, but as far as semi-auto's go, the USP's are damn near as good as it gets.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 10:23:36 AM EDT
I had a tough choice there as well and went with the USP tactical.

The barrel will NEVER snag so dont let that dissuade you. The threaded barrel has the accurizing O-ring so its better than the regular USP. The trigger is fine in SA but not good in DA. I found I sometimes turned on the safety when reloading and reaching for the slide release so I turned mine into a decock only. The USP carries 10 rounds and you can find 12 round mags (I have one) The Tactical is a large gripped gun if you dont like the feel in your hand get the Springfield. I will get a can for the Tactical so it was a no brainer for me. I am kind of undecided as to whether I will get a TRP Operator, Sig 226 SO, or a Beretta Elite IA next though.

I like Decock only with no safety and the Sig and Beretta have that control set up and the 1911 is SA only. I sold my Browning HiPower for that reason. I regretted the decision later but have been happy with my Tac. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 2:55:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
The barrel will NEVER snag so dont let that dissuade you.



And why would that be the case? Assuming there's no can on the end. What's more likely to snag...a barrel with a threaded end sticking out from the frame/slide, or one that has no protrusion?

If you want a can on the end, the Tac is the best bet, if not, a full sized USP is a better choice....for obvious reasons.

After shooting both the Tac and many USP variants, the accurizing O-ring add's nothing noticable to the pistols accuracy. Both are very accurate....and both will probably out last any of us.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 10:11:59 PM EDT
I won both a SA & H&K will never part with either of them. I did, however, replace the barrel in the SA because I wanted top notch accuracy. I already had that with the H&K. >gg<

Hands down the H&K will be the more accurate gun & probably the more reliable. OTOH the SA will be a better "feel" as well as a slimmer carry.

If I had to chose to buy only one I would definitely go with the H&K.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 1:12:45 PM EDT
Hmmmm,,,,well you can tell by my name I'm an "Hk" NUT!!!!!

I own the .45USP, the USP45 Tactical and the Mark 23. Out of the three, I'd say I wish that I had saved my money when I bought the Tactical. With the standard USP, the tactical is basically a waste unless you get a silencer on the end of it, which I doubt you will.

Secondly, I own a Springfield "HRT" model, which is similar to the "TRP" model.

I'd say that If I had to choose one gun right now to save my life, I'd probably bet that the Hk would have a less probablity of jamming, when compared to any 1911 model gun.

BUT..... I'd have to say that I like my HRT model better than any of the Hk's I own.

Basically, the HRT 1911, is slimmer in my hands (even though I have big hands), the gun is more ergonomically correct for firing in a human hand. The slide of a 1911 sits lower to the wrist than does any Hk USP style weapon, hence giving less felt recoil with a 1911.

The 1911 has been around since Noah was a corporal in the Jewish Navy and the gun is still used today!

The 1911 "TRP" or "HRT" is a gun built for "combat" purposes, which are much harsher than any "target" paper killing gun. The TRP gun can take lots of abuse just as the USP series of guns can. Yet the 1911's just feel much better.

You can buy Wilson's or Chip McCormick's magazine at 8, 9 or 10 round capacities for the 1911. Yes, with the Hk's, you can buy 12 rounders, which I own several thanks to be a LEO.

If I could use a gun full time as a duty round and my department let me carry the 1911, I'd carry my Springfield HRT, instead of my USP.45.

Cocked/locked single actions is awesome. The 1911 comes onto target much faster than my Mark 23, Tactical or my USP.

Just my own opinion, since I own both guns as originally asked.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 2:02:36 PM EDT
The 1911 series pistols are very easy to maintain, and have tons of different accessory parts available.

If I were going to shoot ALOT, I'd probably go with the 1911.

NOTE: I've got 1911's and an H&K USPC, and absolutely LOVE both types!


Chris
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:12:43 PM EDT
Its funny you should ask, I own a Tactical and I've put about 1600 rounds through it with no problems whatsoever. I think its worth the extra money, the match trigger is a heck of alot better than the standard one, and the adjustable sights are better, and the 0-ring barrel makes a discernable difference in accuracy. This gun is so accurate it makes me look like a better shooter than I really am. I've posted big threads about my Tactical before, I'll try to find one.

By the same token though, I'm looking at getting an Operator, probably a "Loaded" Operator but not the super-expensive TRP--heck I already spent $900 on the big Tac, thats alot for me! But I've handled a Loaded Operator, never shot one, but I really liked the way it felt. I was suprised that it was so much heavier than the Tactical though--the Tac looks like its a boat anchor but it really isn't--the Operator looks like any other 1911 but that rail adds ALOT of weight to the barrel end of the gun. Some people, like me, sorta like that, and some don't.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:31:31 PM EDT
Funny you should ask.

I sold my TRP last year and bought a USP Tactical. Big mistake if you want my personal opinion.

Overall, I got better accuracy with the TRP, and believe it or not, I actually got better reliability with the TRP!!! The TRP (1911s in general) is much better balanced and the slimmer frame would give it the edge over the USP if CCW is an consideration.

Single action, versus DA, well, that's an argument I don't want to step in, but I'll just say that it's tough to beat the action of the ol' 1911. Loved the trigger on the TRP, the USP Tact is nice in SA too though.

Mags for the USP are a ripoff, $40 for a postban 10 rounder, and $80+ for preban 12s, but good 1911 mags can be had for cheap.

Don't get me wrong, the USP Tact is a great handgun, and it is probably worth the extra dough over the standard USP, even though in the end, you're just getting a tricked out, USP with a nicer trigger, bbl, sights, and a fancy case. But up against the TRP....

So I'll admit that the USP would win in the 'coolness' factor at the range, but in the end, the TRP would be the better carry/defense gun in my humble opinion.

For my next .45 project I want to build a doublestack 1911, perhaps using an STI frame...

Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:59:51 PM EDT
Wow, I'm seriously impressed. I know HKocher and he's a bona-fide HK fanatic.

If he says the TRP is better, I have to believe him, because I know he loves HK.

Wow, now I really want one... still not selling my Tac to get one though.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 9:20:14 PM EDT
I just picked up a .45 USP and I'd like to set it up like a tactical with a suppressor. Can this be done, and if so where can I get a replacement threaded barrel?

Does the suppressor need an inertial coupler? I ask because the class 3 yahoo at the last show I was at said I'd need one, but the tacticals I've seen don't look like they have one.

Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 12:38:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 10:57:21 AM EDT
Thanks for the links.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 12:04:01 PM EDT
Just save up a couple hundred more bucks and go for either the Valtro or maybe a Baer. Either one is a decent upgrade over the Springfield.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 6:41:26 AM EDT
Do you want to carry "cocked and locked" to get a ready to go gun?? The HK can run a first shot double action, the decocker is handy and I happen to like the ergonomics. A 1911 can develop the problem of hammer following and fire when the safety is released or the slide is slammed home, but it is a great gun overall. The HK does not have that problem.

The treaded bbl is a non-issue, I am sure if "M4" switched to a silk Ninja suit, nothing woud snag.

If you had the cash,,I'd consider the HK Expert, slightly better trigger, ambi safety, and lower sights, plenty accurate and it is limited class legal for action shooting. I have not had a malfunction with full power ammo in 2000 rounds.

I have several 1911's and one HK, as far as size does,carrying a full sized anything is bulky and hard to hide. If you want a carry gun,,you should decide if you want a defensive hide-out gun or a full sized gun and lots of mags.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 7:01:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2002 11:50:30 AM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
The treaded bbl is a non-issue, I am sure if "M4" switched to a silk Ninja suit, nothing woud snag.



Ok genius, if you're not attaching a can, why would anyone want/need a threaded barrel? Especially when an identical pistol is available without it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 8:23:59 AM EDT
tbone,
They both are excellent and I would buy/trust my life to either. Here are some differences.
1. For the folks with smaller hands, the 1911 is better.
2. You can change the HK from V1 to V2 etc. easily.
3. Parts/mags are much cheaper for the Springfield.
4. You can shoot +P+ in the HK all day long.

Now the big one (at least for me). They both are very reliable. But the HK will hold up much better under field conditions. And I'm talking military type events. Example: a couple of days in the swamp, weapon had an empty mag in it, removed mag and could only get 8 (I think it was 8- regardless there was so much junk in the mag I couldn't fill it) rounds in it. The weapon functioned perfectly. I tried something similar with a Combat Commander years before and the damn thing jammed jammed jammed. Nothin' but a boat anchor.
Conclusion:
1. Get what fits your hand.
2. Find a range/friend and test fire both.
3. Need a general weapon- go Springfield
4. Need one that will survive and operate anywhere, get the HK. I prefer the USPF .45 myself.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 11:05:59 AM EDT
Well my silk panty wearing ninja poser friend, I attached a can to mine, hence the threaded bbl.

If you had the ability to read and comprehend you would have noticed the part about buying an Expert to enjoy a quality HK product without the dangers of snagging the threads of you bbl.

We are talking about approx. 1/2 inch of bbl and some very fine threads,,are you wearing a suit of spider webs or what? I own one and have never snagged it on anything and I do carry the damn thing fairly often.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 11:37:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2002 11:50:41 AM EDT by --BATMAN--]

Originally Posted By M4:
Ok genius, if you're not attaching a can, why would anyone want/need a threaded barrel? Especially when an identical pistol is available without it. Yeah, thought that was your answer.



Ok, genius, howzabout because its the only way I could get the accuracy enhancing O-ring setup without spending $1500 on a collector's piece Socom gun. When I got my Tactical the Expert was not yet in wide circulation and the few examples around cost nearly as much as the Socom. I paid $900 for my Tactical, it was the least expensive option that still had adjustable sights, a match trigger, and the O-ring. I put a CCI flashider on the gun because I can't get a can in Missouri, which sucks but that isn't HK's fault. The flashider DOES work at night, which is when I am most likely to actually use the weapon in a home defense scenario. So that' a viable reason as well. But mostly its because I wanted the O-ring setup, which is a large reason why my Tactical is about as accurate as my SAR-1 rifle.
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