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Posted: 9/7/2002 11:43:53 AM EDT
Went to the funshow earlier today and unloaded my Marlin .22. Now what to buy when on the advice of Campy I browsed the tables and found a milsurp .22lr conversion unit with two Mags. The price, $100 OTD. Kit seems in good shape, army unit so no chamber rifling, but I'll live with it. Now to find another upper to use as an exlusive with this. J&T had some nice ones for $290 and if I can't find a new one I will probably go with it. Shipping or tax, same thing.

Anyone have any experience with these milsurp units?
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:28:33 PM EDT
none at all........

what does it look like compared to the Ciener conversion ? does it have any markings on it that says it is milsurp. ?
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:42:14 PM EDT
Looks similar to the Ciener but clearly a generation earlier. Marked with standard US Mil ordnance codes, Identifiers and serial #. mags slip into and secure into sandard AR mags, that part seems to work flawlessy, rather ingenious and I'm surprised Ciener didn't also do this, It could well end his 30 rd problem, the age of the thing seems sufficient that there should be no sort of Patent problem.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 2:06:08 PM EDT
shotar,

thank you for that info, i had never seen one, or at least i may have unknowningly passed by one & not knew what it was, one of my complaints about Cieners is the lack of identification, there is nothing stamped or etched in them for ID purposes.... i do plan on etching my own ID info on mine.....

$100 sounds like one heck of a deal you got, this nonsense about having a dedicated upper is over blown in my opinion unless you plan on minute MOA, i have used my Cieners in 20", & 16" barrels, 1in12, 1in9 & 1in7 twist barrels & i can hit an "E" tank at 100 yds offhand & hit it 20 out of 25 times, if i were you, i'd use your conversion in what ever AR you have for plinking, my two favorites are my SP-1 & Gov't Carbine.., i consider them both accurate at 100 yds, i can hit 8" gongs consistantly.....

now that i know what to look for, i'll have to get one....

thanx once more for the info.....
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 4:58:45 PM EDT
Roger on saving the money on a dedicated upper, unless you plan on using the thing to compete in small bore matches. I've owned both the Army and Air Force (white mags) units, and found them to be equally accurate. The only reason I've kept the Air Force unit and sold the type you have, is that the AF kit holds the bolt open after the last shot, so I put up with the yucky looking white mags.

Sounds like you got a good deal, since what you paid was 10 years ago's price. Enjoy.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 5:42:36 PM EDT
Well, I feel pretty good about the purchase. I will try to head out to the range early tomorrow morning and run some rounds through it. My thought on a separate upper for it was not really towards accuracy, simply to keep the fouling down on my bushie HBAR. I will I think wait on that purchase till I find one real cheap.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 6:11:58 PM EDT
Sounds like you got a good deal to me.

As far as getting a upper for it, it's probably not a bad idea. I did the same thing. Though mine is a .223 upper.


Are you planning on using it for just general plinking, or to see how small of a hole you can punch at 50?


If just for general plinking, you could probably piece together an upper for around $200 (maybe less).

Check the for sale boards for old upper receivers (the one I got on my upper is is real old, w/o forward assist), and used barrels.

Unless it has to be real pretty, you can get into one for fairly cheap.


Link Posted: 9/7/2002 6:22:34 PM EDT
I think if I can get it together this week I'm gonna order a 16" postban upper from J&T. Should work for me and I can go to 5.56 if I want to.
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 5:31:38 AM EDT
GLad you got it, as I was with Campy when he found it and I bought a fresh Colt unit a few weeks ago for 199. I plan on a beater upper for it later, just use it for AR practice at the indoor 22/pistol range 8 min from home. Be careful of the gritty primer debris; get it all out before sending centerfire down the bbl, more of a threat than lead fouling IMO. My soft Wolf target ammo jams, but cheap and hard Remington 22 runs just fine (except for my 2% dud rate).
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 9:46:02 AM EDT
I took it out to the range today. Shot great, out of my 20" HBAR Bushie barrel, best groups 1" at 50 with a flyer here and there out to about 3" but I think that was me as I had no rest with me. I found the cheap remington that comes in the 525 round box to work best with no misfeeds or malfunctions. I ran out and switched to thunderbolt which got very dirty very quickly causing a few feeding problems. The thunderbolt did however produce the best accuracy. The first 223 round after this stuck in the chamber, a quick clear and the rest of the mag fed just fine. Bushie manual says to fire a few 5.56 after prolonged 22 shooting to clear out the gas system. All in all a pretty good day, 2 hours, 500 rounds, about $8 spent.
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 10:03:20 AM EDT
Wow, great deal. I like the idea of shooting 500 rounds for only $8. It makes good sense to have a 22lr conversion kit for your AR, not only economically but also practically in the sense of familiarizing yourself with the feel of the weapon and getting a good sight picture.
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 10:47:14 AM EDT
Great job Shotar! Anyone who braves that 95 degree heat deserves the deal of the day! I did have some military .22 mags last year, but sold 'em for $10 each. My lt. wt. Sporter (6530)outshot any 10-22 I ever had with the Colt conversion kit. I was surprised. (I like surprises like that.) Glad you had a good day!
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 11:59:11 PM EDT
I have a M261 22LR conversion unit that I purchased from Sarco years ago, paid USD 125 for the unit and three new mags. Mine was a bit beaten up, so I dismantled it and had it re-blued. At the end it looked brand new!

How does it shoot? I have a Colt Sporter 1 in 7 HB rifle, and accuracy is mediocre at best. Standard velocity WW 22 LRs jam quite often, for me it is difficult to go above 50-60 rounds without a couple of failure to extract malfunctions or a double feed. The blow back spring is probably stronger than necessary with this type of ammo, but I can achieve 2 MOA at 50 meters, shooting from a rest.

With WW High Velocity copper plated bullets reliability is much better, I can go two full boxes with maybe one jam, but accuracy is 4 MOA… not exactly exiting…

To keep the unit from malfunctioning, you MUST keep it rigorously clean, with lots of lube in the contact areas. I have never gone above 100 rounds without cleaning the unit, it just becomes very dirty, very quickly.

However, the same unit fired in a friends Colt Sporter 1 in 9 HB rifle gives much better accuracy with the same rounds… around 1 MOA at 50 meters… so the 1 in 7 twist isn’t probably the best barrel to have if you want to shoot 22 LRs in your 223 upper.

On the other hand, these conversion units are fun to shoot, now if only I could get mine to shoot well…
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 4:04:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CactusJack:
this nonsense about having a dedicated upper is over blown in my opinion unless you plan on minute MOA,



Is there any other plan out there????

"My plan is to have sub-par accuracy."



Get a dedicated upper. Unless you plan on using this thing for laying down fields of cover fire, I'd think you want to hit your target with consistency.

I'm told the 1 in 12" old A1 uppers (70's era with triangle handguards) will give you 2.5" groups at 25 yards. What's the point of that???

GET A DEDICATED UPPER.

Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:03:00 AM EDT
Dedicated upper purchased. It is .223 but has a 1-14 barrel. I will pull out the gas tube, and tap, fix a set screw in the gas block. This should go a long way in keeping the fouling out of the Mechanism. I'll let you guys know how it shoots.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By CactusJack:
this nonsense about having a dedicated upper is over blown in my opinion unless you plan on minute MOA,



Is there any other plan out there????

"My plan is to have sub-par accuracy."



Get a dedicated upper. Unless you plan on using this thing for laying down fields of cover fire, I'd think you want to hit your target with consistency.

I'm told the 1 in 12" old A1 uppers (70's era with triangle handguards) will give you 2.5" groups at 25 yards. What's the point of that???

GET A DEDICATED UPPER.



===============================================

when i can not hit an 8" gong consistantly at 100 yds offhand with my .22LR conv. i'll think about a dedicated upper, even then it wud be a waste of money, if i want to shoot to hit & kill...., i'll use .223 Rem.

for .22LR plinking i'll continue using what i have, 6" MOA @ 100 yd. is fine with me, & when i can roll a tin can from 20' to 75 yds with a 30 rnd mag. i am pretty damn satisfied.......
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:46:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CactusJack:


when i can not hit an 8" gong consistantly at 100 yds offhand with my .22LR conv. i'll think about a dedicated upper, even then it wud be a waste of money, if i want to shoot to hit & kill...., i'll use .223 Rem.

for .22LR plinking i'll continue using what i have, 6" MOA @ 100 yd. is fine with me, & when i can roll a tin can from 20' to 75 yds with a 30 rnd mag. i am pretty damn satisfied.......




Soooo, your plan IS to have sub-par accuracy.


What can I say - I'm a gun-snob accuracy freak.





Link Posted: 9/13/2002 4:54:25 AM EDT
If your looking for extra mags, Sarco has the M261 Conversion Unit mags for $16.50, 3 for $42.50, or 10 for $120.

Brad
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 6:40:57 AM EDT
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