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Posted: 9/2/2002 7:41:50 AM EDT
I was watching Hamburger Hill last night and saw only the 20 round Colt mags (some taped together). When did the first 30 round mag come into use?

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 9:19:41 AM EDT by Big_Bear]
Mid to late 1960s. I don't recall the exact year. 30-round mags were first used only by Special Forces before they were distributed to all the troops.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:20:08 AM EDT
According to what Ive read, they started showing up in late 1969 to early 1970. They were still rare, and if a unit was in possession one, usually the point man on patrols got it. Im sure the SF guys got them first.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:38:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 9:38:56 AM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
Mid to late 1960s. I don't recall the exact year. 30-round mags were first used only by Special Forces before they were distributed to all the troops.



Funny that I asked this question of a friend - retired Army Special Forces E-8. He confirmed that in 1968 SF was using 30-round mags but didn't know/remember how long before 1968.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 10:16:02 AM EDT
My Father was in Vietnam in 1968. He went though basic training learning to shoot the M14. Got "in country" and was handed a M16A1. He talks about taping the mags together. He says the 20 rounds were all they had then.

Over all, the liked the M16, with the light weight being the greatest factor.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 12:35:57 PM EDT
The 30-rounders were introduced in 1969. The only confirnmed use of them in Vietmam I know of was by the Son Tay raiders, who had access at the top level for their gear.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 2:54:44 PM EDT
Colt had tool room models available as early as 1965 and SF/SEAL teams had access to the 30rd magazine as early as 1967 in small numbers. They came as part of the XM177 series rifles, usually 1 per carbine and were highly valued.

The 30rd magazine became available to line units in larger quantities around 1970/71. Most went M203 gunners as they made it easier to fire the new 203 launcher that replaced the XM148.

If you look at old photos from 1975(Vietnam, Cambodia) you'll see embassy staff as well as Marines with 30rd magazines locked in place.

The 30rd magazine offically became standard A circa 1972. The last contracts for 20rd magazines were issued in 1971 to Adventure line.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 2:56:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 6:23:35 PM EDT
OK then what about the "Navy SEAL 40 round" mags?

Is this a urban legend?

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 6:27:36 PM EDT
I have a book somewhere in the collection of 101st Airborne troopers in Vietnam with 30 round magazines in their M16A1s dated as 1971.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:03:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PVFD304:
OK then what about the "Navy SEAL 40 round" mags?

Is this a urban legend?


Apparently those were the real deal. Looked like two 20-rounders welded together. There were only a handful made and somebody had one of them for sale in EE awhile back. Very rare.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PVFD304:
OK then what about the "Navy SEAL 40 round" mags?

Is this a urban legend?




Make that a 50 round magazine. Three versions were made.

The first version Mod 1 made by Naval Weapons Laboratory Dahlgren, was deemed unsuccesful, 10 of these were made and a number of those were tested in Vietnam.

The Mod 2 was made by Naval Ordnance Station in Forest Park, Illinois. Total of 42 Mod 2 magazines were made. Ten of these were found not to operate properly, five were to units in Vietnam and the remaining 27 magazines were distributed to members of Navy ST 2 operating in the Mekong Delta.

There were ten Mod 3 magazines manufactured and seven of those were sent to ST elements in Vietnam.

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 10:02:02 PM EDT
I picked up a 20 rounder from Outdoor America for 19.00 it was a colt with .223 on the floor plate,I asked him if he had more like it and he said yes a shit load.

I pulled my plastic out and said bring me some more,he checked and said that was the only one he had I bought it.

This is different from my other colt mags as they say 5.56 instead of .223, what is the difference?

Bob
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:24:36 PM EDT
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