Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/15/2002 3:20:58 PM EDT
I was responding to another poster's plight regarding FFL screwups when a thought came across my mind-does your FFL holder open and inspect your purchases you make through him?
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:24:52 PM EDT
mine does, he usually puts it out on display on the store, i usually buy things that his normal custmers dont order like ar,ak,fal a cetme. this way he shows other people whats out there besides bolt guns and shotguns. Ronald
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:32:20 PM EDT
Mine does too. I don't like it. I want to open the box and be the first to touch my new toy.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:34:50 PM EDT
An FFL holder has to, more or less. I'm not sure if you're worried about your privacy, but an FFL holder has to have the serial number of the firearm logged in prior to transfer. I can't see any other way to do this other than to open the package and physically inspect the item.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:36:20 PM EDT
Mine did! I ordered a K98k Mauser from CDNN. When I went to pick it up I noticed no bill of sale or receipt. I asked, but was told nothing came with the rifle. I found that kind of strange, since I paid with a credit card, I figured I should have at least have a receipt. Called CDNN to question what happened, they told me there should have been paperwork with the rifle, but the FFL holds on to these because even though I paid for the rifle it belongs to them until the transfer to me. My main concern was that I received the rifle that CDNN sent me and that it was not switched on me for the same rifle, but of lesser quality by the FFL! CDNN verified by phone the S/N they sent with what I received and all was ok. But I think the FFL should wait till the buyer is present to open the package. Am I wrong?
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:40:37 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy- That's a good point. I just didn't see the necessity of going through the accessories.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:43:22 PM EDT
Jim is correct, if you don't trust your FFL to do you right, find another!
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:44:41 PM EDT
My FFL guy lets me open the box. Then he gets his required information from the gun while I'm standing there.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:47:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
My FFL guy lets me open the box. Then he gets his required information from the gun while I'm standing there.



That's what mine has started to do. I trust him to "do me right", but I like the fact that he lets me open the box.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 4:33:58 PM EDT
I think that the majority of FFL holders will do right. I can't see these guys pilfering a small amount of accessories from your package (I'm sure it happens, but those shitheads are definitely in the minority).

The FFLs I've used have done it like this: if it's a factory NIB gun, then they've simply opened the box and verified the serial number. If it's a used gun, in non-factory packaging, then they comb through the packing to check for the presence of any extras that might get thrown away accidentally (some of the guns I've bought have been packed in an equal volume of styrofoam peanuts). No big deal to me.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 4:44:25 PM EDT
My FFL is a pawn shop. I dont buy anything from him as far as guns because he doesnt have much. Anyway, when I have a gun shipped to him he lets me open the box. Best part is that he doesnt charge anything to do a transfer!
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 5:03:38 PM EDT
Mine does not. I thought that he would, after all its his license on the line. What if its something illegal? He waits till I get there and lets me do the "Christmas morning"
He's great. He only charges me $20 for any transfer.(I always tip)
I will pay more for ammo (223, sorry, I have to buy 9mm at WallyWorld) from him and drive to Tampa just to visit. His ammo prices arent bad either.If your in Tampa area, check him out.www.floridaammotraders.com
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 5:39:37 PM EDT
My FFL is my gunsmith. I want him to open my packages to inspect them before I get there. I always tell him what is coming and its condition and what ever extras are with it. This way when it gets there if anything is wrong or missing I can get on the horn pronto.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 5:44:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 6:40:46 PM EDT
My FFL doesn't touch the contents. I show up the morning after he gives me The Call, he pulls the package out of the safe and hands it to me, I open it up and fiddle around with my newfoundjoy while filling out the yellow form (and the additional Great Wisconsin White Form for handguns). He barely looks at it. His eyesight is poor, so he asks me to read the serial number to him. Then I either get to take it home, or I pack it all back in the box and hand it to him, which he then puts in his safe.

All in all he doesn't touch anything in my box. I don't know whether he's following the rules... I can imagine a situation where I could do a quick sleight of hand and make a handgun that came along with a longgun 'disappear', though I'm not sure what I'd achieve doing so.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 7:13:40 PM EDT
My FFL opens and inspects my rifles uppon delivery. I know he sent back a Savage because the box was beat up and there was a scratch on the stock, then gave me 50 bucks off for the extra one week wait. But I trust him more than I would anyone else.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 7:17:12 PM EDT
Everytime I have had a purchase sent through an FFL, I always pick it up opened and inspected. I never really minded.

Keving67
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 8:27:28 PM EDT
Same here. I usually try and get in there as soon as the transport company's web site says it's been delivered. Last time it took me an hour, and by then they had gone through a small second box that contained a scope to go with the rifle. No instructions for the scope, which I later learned *were* included. <sigh>
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 8:47:07 PM EDT
For non-firearms orders that I go to my FFL dealer. I get to open. However, if it is a firearm order or transfer, they need to verify the firearm's serial numbers in order to be process on their bound books.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 10:27:06 PM EDT
The one I use when my buddy is unavailable (vacation) does not open. Saves there rear incase there is a problem.

Looking at the replies, it's sort of an even split. I can understand why they wait for the 'recipiant' to get there and why they do open it before.

Link Posted: 8/16/2002 3:24:48 AM EDT
My FFL not only opens it, but fondles it, shows all his "groupies", bangs it around on his glass cabinet and charges me what he thinks is good for the day.
I bought a $1500.00 rifle from out of state and had him transfer it for me. He insisted on charging me sales tax, $25.00 transfer fee, 10% the first $1000.00 then 5% after that. I was a hostage at that point. He is a scummer and I have never had a transfer done by him again. He is the reason I got my C&R FFL.
He does have the best prices on guns that I can find anywhere, but his attitude is becoming less worth the good prices.
He is in the Hudson Valley region in NY.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 3:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flashbang1:
I bought a $1500.00 rifle from out of state and had him transfer it for me. He insisted on charging me sales tax, $25.00 transfer fee, 10% the first $1000.00 then 5% after that.



$150 for a transfer??? What a bastard. I'm buying a $1000 class iii item, and I was happy to hear that the local dealer is only going to charge $50. I think that's reasonable; I was afraid he'd want to charge a percentage.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 3:48:19 AM EDT
Post the asshole's name. Out him here.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 3:54:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:
$150 for a transfer??? What a bastard. I'm buying a $1000 class iii item, and I was happy to hear that the local dealer is only going to charge $50. I think that's reasonable; I was afraid he'd want to charge a percentage.



Actually it came to $1761.86 out the door when all was done. I was so stunned and confused at the time he was calculating his fees I gave up trying to understand his logic.
All I can say about his name is that his is well known on Jouster.com for selling fake cartouche M1 carbine stocks [knowingly or unknowingly] a while bac
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 4:11:15 AM EDT
Sounds like he has a track record as a shithead. Post his name.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:44:26 AM EDT
What a scumbag!

My dealer charged me a whole $10.00 for the transfer of $1,200.00 rifle.

He didn't open the box, until I was present, checked the paperwork and asked my permission to fondle it.

I felt like a hungry dog waiting for some steak scraps from his masters plate. In fact, I think I was drooling! LOL!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:28:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:29:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Mine does not. I thought that he would, after all its his license on the line. What if its something illegal? He waits till I get there and lets me do the "Christmas morning"
He's great. He only charges me $20 for any transfer.(I always tip)
I will pay more for ammo (223, sorry, I have to buy 9mm at WallyWorld) from him and drive to Tampa just to visit. His ammo prices arent bad either.If your in Tampa area, check him out.www.floridaammotraders.com



FAT Phil! He's great. You know his shop is right around the corner from Mark Serbu's shop?! Where do you travel from? My FFL in St. Pete charges me lunch a couple of times a year, and the $5.00 fee for NICS.

He opens the package, and checks out my new firearm, but I know him really well, and trust him. He then keeps my new toy in HIS office until I pick it up! 99% of his clients are FBI, local LEO's, FDLE, DEA, and or military from MacDill AFB. Can't trust those guys! Just kidding,,,,, not!

Now if I could walk out with one of the LEO MP5's, M16's, G3's, and such, I'd be really happy!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 4:34:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stokes:

Did you order it with your money, or his?



All mine. Only thing he gave me was his signed FFL copy. The gun came with the reciept and amount I paid.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 5:02:09 PM EDT
Yes he does, and it annoys me. He's a at home FFl, no need to palm all my stuff. Worse, he takes things as well.. like the recipt that the sending FFL enclosed in the box. I have to tell him to fork it over... *sigh*

I need another guy.. :)
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 5:33:32 PM EDT
NO
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 5:37:23 PM EDT
I do my FFL tranfers at a pawn shop a friend of mine owns, she opens it up but I don't care at all...$10 transfers
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 6:03:46 PM EDT
The first dealer I had do a transfer did not open the box until I arrived. The dealer I use now does. He has all of his paperwork done before I get there to save time. He sees the receipts for every firearm I buy. He does NOT charge sales tax, as he is NOT supposed to. I give him a flat rate of $20 regardless of purchase price. He would probably do it for free, but I offered $20 for my first transfer and have always paid the same fee ever since.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:29:31 PM EDT
I ordered a rifle from an FFL. It came to his shop yesterday, he wasn't there, so Fed-X left a note. Today, I showed up to get it, we waited, no Fed-X. He called, a computer told him it was at their terminal. He dropped what he was doing, drove over to get it. He had to go to 2 different terminals on opposite ends of town. They made a mistake, it was on the truck getting to be delivered to his shop. He came back, it showed up, he opened it , and handed it to me. The bolt had a rust spot about the size of my fingernail(this is a brand new gun). After all he'd done I felt bad about telling him to call the dist. to make it good. He did all this while he was packing for a gunshow this weekend, and I'd never done business with him before. I think I'll give him more of my business.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:39:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2002 7:39:41 PM EDT by GSG9]
This is the most simple explanation of why dealers open your boxes, its not because they want to pilfer it's because federal law requires it.

If commercial records are kept containing the required information, are available for inspection, and are separate from other commercial documents, dealers have 7 days from the time of receipt or disposition to record the receipt or disposition in the "bound book." Receipts not covered by these records must be entered in the "bound book" by the close of the next business day after the acquisition or purchase. If a disposition is made before the acquisition has been entered in the "bound book," the acquisition entry must be made at the same time as the disposition entry. [27 CFR 178.125( d)-( i)]




Jake
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:03:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GSG9:
This is the most simple explanation of why dealers open your boxes, its not because they want to pilfer it's because federal law requires it.



I am aware of this, but here's the thing: They never record anything at the time they open it (waiting naturally until I am there), and I always have to ask for my receipt, which they apparently would like to keep, though it is usually my only proof of ownership besides a non-specific charge on my credit card bill. All the dealers I've had this problem with could very well wait a few hours.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:06:49 PM EDT
I have only bought 1 new firearm in my life.
It was unopened.
AB
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:10:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
An FFL holder has to, more or less. I'm not sure if you're worried about your privacy, but an FFL holder has to have the serial number of the firearm logged in prior to transfer. I can't see any other way to do this other than to open the package and physically inspect the item.




No, they don't "have to". The only new gun I bought was unopened, ie. sealed. He copied the serial number AFTER I cracked the seal.
AB
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:41:34 PM EDT
I have used different FFLs in my area.

First was a local pawn shop. I had ordered a Bushmaster Kit, and the sales person at Bushmaster explained that it was OK for me to pay for the stripped lower on my CC, and have it shipped to the local FFL Dealer. The Pawn Shop would not let me pay for the receiver on my CC and have it shipped, he wanted me to pay him for it and transfer fee. He charged me $220.00 for a Bushy stripped lower. And yes, he opened the box. and kept any paper work that came with it (it was his to keep). Needless to say, I've never done any business with him again.

Next, I deal with Rocky Mountain Arms in Longmont Colorado. I've ordered 3 FAL Imbel upper receivers from him. I called Dealers warehouse and paid on my CC, and he would have done the transfer for free, but I gave him $35.00 dollars for it. He also does Teflon firearm coating on (so far) 1 of my FALs. GREAT COATING!!! Because I paid him $35.00 for a transfer, and I always pay him cash on gunsmith and coating work, he treats me really well. Can't say enough good things about him. Any way, he also opens my receiver orders before I get there. I really trust him, and I do not see anything wrong with this!! He always gives me the receipts that come with them, and copies them for his records.

Next, I dealt with Dave's Guns in Aurora Colorado. Had him order me a VEPRK from Robinson Arms. When I tried to order from Rob Arms, they would not take the order, they wanted the FFL to place it. They told me that they had Dave's Guns FFL on file (that's why I used them). They were also great and they did open the box before I got their. But hey, they ordered it on their nickle, and the receipt I got on the rifle was from them not from Robinson Armament. I do not know what the Transfer Fee was, because it was all included in the price of the rifle. BTW, they gave me a great price on it.

I also ordered 2 RRArms stripped lowers from Gunsmoke through them, as they already had their FFL on file with them. He hit me for $50.00 per receiver for transfer fee. He explained that he has overhead and that, that is his price for items that he just does the transfer on, no negotiations on the transfer fee. Kind of pricey, so I'll have Rocky Mountain Arms exchange FFLs in the future.

Again yes they opened my package before I got their, and I did get the original receipt from the package.

They also did not let me know the price on the transfer until I came to pick up my lowers. As I had called and explained what I was having shipped to him, he never let me know what the transfer fee was ahead of time. Like I said, I would of had RMA exchange had I known. I was kinda stuck paying his fee, as he already had the item in, when I found out what his charge was.

In short I had a good experience and a bad experience with them. I'll order new rifles through them again, but I'll go else where for Transfer only deals.

The only reason I used Dave's on the RRArms lowers was because I did not have to bother Rocky Mountain about the FFL exchange. Bob had said that he would have done the transfers for free!! Damn it, could have saved a $100.00!!

Live and learn!!!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:42:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By albob:
No, they don't "have to". The only new gun I bought was unopened, ie. sealed. He copied the serial number AFTER I cracked the seal.
AB



See my post above.

Yes we do have to. FFLs don't just keep a bound book cause we think its fun.

Also only a complete idiot would only log the serial numbers from invoices I can think of at least a half dozen occasions where the number has been transcribed on an invoice I was dealing with.

Jake
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 5:45:29 AM EDT
GSG9:

Apparently albob doesn't have much new gun experience. I've lost track of the number of times that the information on the box, receipt, and other associated paperwork didn't match the gun inside. This was on NEW guns, too. From companies like Browning, USRA, Remington, etc.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:58:05 AM EDT
Yes, They have to log the item. Kind of hard to do without opening it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:02:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flashbang1:
My FFL not only opens it, but fondles it, shows all his "groupies", bangs it around on his glass cabinet and charges me what he thinks is good for the day.
I bought a $1500.00 rifle from out of state and had him transfer it for me. He insisted on charging me sales tax, $25.00 transfer fee, 10% the first $1000.00 then 5% after that. I was a hostage at that point. He is a scummer and I have never had a transfer done by him again. He is the reason I got my C&R FFL.
He does have the best prices on guns that I can find anywhere, but his attitude is becoming less worth the good prices.
He is in the Hudson Valley region in NY.



Dang Must have alot of overhead to support--there is a guy here just south of Newburgh he only charges $35 for the transfer or if you have him order from J&G,WG&A,SOG,AIM etc He will pay for it on his card and you just give Him cash when It comes in all he ever charges is the price + actual shipping +his $35 on multiple orders he charges the $35 once only --He works out of his house and only opens packages to verify serial numbers and that its not banged up. If you want He'll wait till you get there. If you have a NYS pistol permit He will forego the NICS check.I dont want to post His info here without His permission but e-mail or IM me and I will give it to you.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:20:35 AM EDT
This is why if you buy a firearm with accessories (mags, slings, sights, etc.), from someone on this board or wherever, always have them ship the accessories to you directly.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:21:45 AM EDT
My .02
I had an FFL exremely close by that I did what I consider substantial business with because I buy, sell, and collect.
First off, they would not accept firearms from private citizens, ONLY from other FFL's (read collusion)
Not only did they open my stuff up, they took it upon themselves to put a few rounds through almost everything I brought in "To make sure it was not full auto" (as if a competent gunsmith couldn't tell without firing). Their fees started at $25 per transfer, and are now $35 per transfer plus 10% of anything over $500 in receipts.
Guess what my friends, I stop by to say hello and buy ammo occasionally, but I switched FFLs
a LONG time ago to a Vietnam Vet who works out of his house, charges a flat $20 per transfer, and I WANT him to open my stuff up before I drive the 40 minutes each way to do a transfer to make sure it is what it is supposed to be and came with what it was supposed to come with and is in the condition it is supposed to be in.
I do not need to be there to open anything because I would trust this guy with my life, and we have developed such a nice working relationship, that I will be going hunting with him this year.
He is meticulous, knowledgable, and reasonable, even in the smithing department. It pays to find an FFL you feel comfortable with, even if it is out of the way.
Good luck....
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:30:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RifleRanger:
My .02

Guess what my friends, I stop by to say hello and buy ammo occasionally, but I switched FFLs
a LONG time ago to a Vietnam Vet who works out of his house, charges a flat $20 per transfer, and I WANT him to open my stuff up before I drive the 40 minutes each way to do a transfer to make sure it is what it is supposed to be and came with what it was supposed to come with and is in the condition it is supposed to be in.
I do not need to be there to open anything because I would trust this guy with my life, and we have developed such a nice working relationship, that I will be going hunting with him this year.
He is meticulous, knowledgable, and reasonable, even in the smithing department. It pays to find an FFL you feel comfortable with, even if it is out of the way.
Good luck....



Crap, why can't I find a dealer like that?!
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:37:53 AM EDT

Mine always does. He has to log it in his "blue book" for the ATF.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 4:43:18 PM EDT
My FFL opens mine .. I have no problem with it
as long as they wipe their Drool off of it .. last two i had come through ( Two Krinkov's ) thats all they talked about for a month ..
Oh yea .. $0 charge for trans.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 5:17:41 PM EDT
I thought I'd heard it all till last Sunday I was shooting at Greater Pittsburgh Gun Club and when we got done we stopped by the clubhouse/office and out of curiosity I asked what their charge was for a transfer and policy on receiving items (as the owner and his wife are FFLs)
1) they will only receive firearms and recievers from other FFLs. Not from individuals.
2) they have monthly bulletins from FAC,CAI etc and catalogs from other manufacturers. Look through em and find what you want write it in a slip include a cat and page refrence.
3)leave the slip by the register in a little box they have set up.
4)when they get around to it THEY will call and find out the price and let you know what it is (what you think you know is inconsequential)
5)Once you provide them with funds they will order (hope you are not in a hurry)
6)they charge 5 or 10% based on some random structure.I think it was based on the price but they did not seem to want to explain it.
7)They also charge a transfer fee AND for the NICs check.
I did not ask about sales tax. Not sure if PA even has any.
at those rates I figured they did not get much FFL business but I looked in the box and there musta been 20 slips in there --go figure, Anyway if I am moving out there I will be finding another FFL to deal with Its a decent range but I wont do any shopping there.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 12:55:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By albob:

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
An FFL holder has to, more or less. I'm not sure if you're worried about your privacy, but an FFL holder has to have the serial number of the firearm logged in prior to transfer. I can't see any other way to do this other than to open the package and physically inspect the item.




No, they don't "have to". The only new gun I bought was unopened, ie. sealed. He copied the serial number AFTER I cracked the seal.
AB



Sorry dude but why do you think he was envolved in the transfer at all,he has to open it and see just what the heck he sent a copy of his licence to your buyer for!

You think he is going to just hand you over a box that may or may not contain a class three gun.

If you ever got a gun from your FFL man unopened by him, on your own good name. I wouldn't post that kind of info here! You are just kidding right?

He should open ,inspect it have it logged in and then call you, saying something of the effect Mr XXX your gun has arrived please come in ,at your con and fill out the yellow slip.

Bob

Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:39:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
GSG9:

Apparently albob doesn't have much new gun experience. I've lost track of the number of times that the information on the box, receipt, and other associated paperwork didn't match the gun inside. This was on NEW guns, too. From companies like Browning, USRA, Remington, etc.



As I stated above, I have only bought one new firearm, so "apparently" I don't have much new gun experience. I wasn't suggesting that the FFL got the serial #'s from the invoice. He waited so I could break the seal on the box, look the gun over, accept it ,THEN he copied the number. I assumed this was the norm. I thought is was cool of him to allow me to be the first one to open the box. Get the picture?
AB
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top