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Posted: 8/4/2002 1:51:03 PM EDT
I just picked up an IBM M1 Carbine yesterday ser# 3695xxx. It has the US Armory? bomb proofmark, 10 -43 and IBM Corp. stamped on the barrel. The bore is excellent. There are no importation marks anywhere and it looks like the safety selector and rear sight are not original. I also got a bayonet with a wood sheath and a bakelite grip. I can't find any bayonets similar to this online anywhere. Most of them have a leather or plastic grip.



Here are all of the markings that I can see.

Stock Markings:

P- behind trigger guard on pistol grip
AAK in rectangle on left side above trigger
Circle shape on right side of buttstock

Receiver Markings:

U.S. CARBINE CAL .30 M1- Front of receiver
I.B.M. CORP. 3695xxx- Rear of receiver
P-LW- Right side of screw tab at rear
X mark on screw

Trigger Group Markings:

BE-B- Right rear of trigger group assembly
H- On left of hammer

Barrel Markings:

I.B.M. CORP. 10-43- Behind front sight

Other Markings:

SU (?)- Bottom of bayonet lug
JM- Right side of barrel band
I.R. CO. 7160060- Right side of rear sight
M underlined- Magazine release
J.A.O.- Safety selector
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 1:57:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 2:17:32 PM EDT
Can you post again RAF? Your previous post is invisible.
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 2:46:47 PM EDT
Thanks RAF. I can see your post now.
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 4:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2002 4:30:19 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Looks really nice!

The bayonet is, I think, of Dutch origin.

I've got two just like it.

The trigger group is correct, but the hammer is wrong according to my book.

The same book also states that you should have a flat top bolt with that serial number. Can't really tell with your picture.
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 5:09:07 PM EDT
That's the thing about collecting 03 Springfields, Garands, and Carbines. Along the way there were upgrades that were performed in the normal course of manitenance. For carbines, flat top bolts were all exchanged for stronger (and less expensive to make) round bolts; pushbutton safeties were replaced by lever safeties because too many mags were dropped by pushing the mag release instead of the safety.

An upgraded carbine is still authentic if it has the upgrades, but not "original" as in "the condition in which it was first issued". My 1944 Springfield Garand doesn't have the "correct" 1944 rear sight knobs; it was upgraded with the improved rear sight parts sometime in the 50s. To the purist, this is a no-no. Is it still an authentic USGI Garand, you bet, and it bothers me not a bit.

Noah
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:08:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 5:11:27 AM EDT by shamayim]
Actually, the only way you could get an "original" nonupgraded carbine would be if it had been stolen. Every carbine in government inventories was supposed to have been upgraded with the rear sights, safeties, modified stock cut out at the operating rod point, hammer, and mag release. Bolts were only changed to the round style when the original became unserviceable and needed replacement. Also maybe some others that I've forgotten.

To actually have a piece where the barrel manufacturer and the reciever manufacturer are the same is quite an accomplishment in itself. After the first 8-12 months of production, carbines were increasingly built out of parts made by different manufacturers and assembled at the factory that built the recievers. A lot of carbines built by other contractors actually were built with barrels and trigger housings made at Inland, and of course there were a number of subcontractors building triggers, hammers, etc.

Your piece appears to be a normally updated M1, so I would assume that it's got a number of non IBM parts. Don't feel bad; it's the usual thing
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:51:38 AM EDT
Check the handguard.

On the rear of it, near the bolt, you'll see either four holes (2 sets of two holes) or two holes (1 set of two holes)

To my understanding, the FA carbines designated as M2 had the four hole handguards. The M1's all had the two hole handguards.

Also, like raf said, the bayo lug (including the wide barrel band) on the gun is a retro-fit. USGI , but prolly not original to the gun.

Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:20:40 AM EDT
A rebuild. The AAK mark on the stock is for Augusta Arsenal, one of several AA something marks they used. As stated before the bayonet lug and rear sight are certainly post manufacture. Also as stated earlier a lot of carbines came from the factory as mixmasters. Don't get hung up on "all original", in my view a waste of time and money and in many cases a con job. Just because someone went thru the parts bins and found all IBM parts doesn't make it original. Its a rebuild same as the others.

Link Posted: 8/5/2002 12:49:18 PM EDT
I couldn't agree more, Ameshawki. I see guys at shows looking for the "correct" op rod or sight base or whatnot to put on their Carbines to make it "Original". That floats their boat, and it is OK as long as one realizes that it is no more original than when it left the government inventory.

Shamayim is also quite correct in pointing out that the various contractors that assembled carbines did so with parts made by others when their own in-house parts stocks were depleted in the high-production days of 44 and 45, and not all assembling contractors made all of their own significant components.

Add to this the large number of carbines that were repaired or rebuilt with whatever barrel or whatnot the maintenance organization had in stock at the time, including take-offs.

RANT MODE: I used to dabble in collecting carbines in the late 70s and early 80s, and when selling or trading "up" for a better example, I frequently ran into "that's not the correct ______ ." My response was always the same, how do you know for sure, save for what Scott So-and-so says in his book? What about rebuilds? Field repairs? Shared stock at time of original assembly? Frankly, I got tired of hearing it, and mostly as a result of the prospect trying to negotiate the price down. All of the "experts" got to me. Sold all the carbines, except for a really early Universal with mostly all GI parts that was flat-out hands down the most reliable shooter of the bunch. Moved on to Enfields, Mausers, Mosin-Nagants; not as much of the "hassle" with them as with collecting US martial arms.

Think about it -- why would a Carbine fan want a pushbutton safety instead of the lever safety, especially if he's a shooter-collector? RANT OFF.

Last, the four-rivet handguards were developed for M2 carbines and adopted across the board for M1 and M2 carbines due to the two-rivet design being insufficiently robust. So it is OK to have a four rivet handguard on an M1. At least OK in some people's minds.

JMO,

Noah
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:10:41 PM EDT
It's got a flat bolt and 2 rivet handguard. I knew that all of the parts would not be original. I just wanted to make sure the parts are at least military and civi aftermarket. Thanks for the info guys

Would it be a no-no to have the metal parts re-parkerized? Also, how do you remove the bolt?
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