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Posted: 7/29/2002 9:30:50 PM EDT
Could some one please explain what the purpose of a Dissipator AR-15 is?
The only advantage I see over a regular 16" carbine is the distance between the front and rear sight. I think the term is "sight radius". Wouldn't a dissipator be more complex, due to the second gas block. With one to mount the front sight, a second one under the handguard to actually function as the gas block. And have added weight from the full size handguard, compared to a standard carbine?

Yes, they do look cool, but am I missing something else here?

Ben
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 9:34:34 PM EDT
You have it right - it's the increased sight radius. However, it is not more complicated since there is still only one gas block. The front sight housing no longer serves that purpose. It is simply a sight platform.
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 10:39:59 PM EDT
To "Dissipate" heat better than the short 16 inch handguards. The increased sight radius, is however in my opinion, a more significant improvement.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 4:59:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 5:00:53 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
Also, along with what Avatar said, with more of the barrel covered by the handguards, there is less bare barrel hot barrel exposed to accidentally touch and get a nice little burn from.

Basically you get a rifle that has the sight radius and handling of a fullsize, but with a carbine length barrel for close quarters work.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:11:19 AM EDT
Did you know that Colt made them in 1965?
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:16:38 AM EDT
personally i think dissipators look ugly
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:17:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Basically you get a rifle that has the sight radius and handling of a fullsize, but with a carbine length barrel for close quarters work.



In other words " you get a rifle with all the bulk and mass of 20", but you do not get the benefit of the increased velocity"

I can see why Colt discontinued the design in 1965.

Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:23:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JC:
Did you know that Colt made them in 1965?



Please provide proof, link, or other documentation.

estoner
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 10:36:49 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Basically you get a rifle that has the sight radius and handling of a fullsize, but with a carbine length barrel for close quarters work.



Why would a company "BM" sell a CQB weapon with an increased sight radius. It will simply increase the time to aquire target.


Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
personally i think dissipators look ugly




I was simply making a critique of the nonsensical functionality of the design, but since you mention it, I agree. Dissipators are about the ugliest ARs I have seen.

Diss_ipator = [>(]
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 10:55:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 10:56:45 AM EDT by estoner]
I did think of one advantage of the long front hand guards.

With the increased length the hand guards will make an excellent "butt scratcher".

I can see Bushmasters new Slogan

Better than a Corn Cob by a long shot
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:17:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 11:20:00 AM EDT by oneshot1kill]
At first glance, I found the Dissipator aesthetically displeasing. Looks aside, the weapon's design makes good sense after some time at the range with a brand new Dissipator. The time needed to aquire a quick and precise sight picture with this setup is not noticably different to me versus a standard 16" setup. A more effective advantage for a Dissipator user who has had a good deal of trigger time with 20" barreled AR15/M16 weapons is the familiarity he has with the distance between the sights allowing the picture to come in quickly and more naturally giving him a better combat result which is far more important than aesthetics. I look at the Dissipator model as a good marriage between two very different and effective AR15 setups, each designed for a specific type of combat, giving it a dual purpose role without changing uppers.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:18:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
I did think of one advantage of the long front hand guards.

With the increased length the hand guards will make an excellent "butt scratcher".

I can see Bushmasters new Slogan

Better than a Corn Cob by a long shot



I thought that's what the ribs on the new COLT collapsible stock were for!
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:29:10 AM EDT
Bushmaster is my brand but I agree, Dissipators are uuuuuuuggggly.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:44:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 11:44:52 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By WhiskeyBravo:
Dissipators are uuuuuuuggggly.



To go with that Corn Cob concept, I guess you could say that they are Butt uuuuuuuggggly
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:48:35 AM EDT
I think they're ugly, too.. I have a question.. It's my understanding that the elevation wheel is calibrated according to velocity and sight radius.. Meaning, with an M4, you have shorter sight radius and less velocity.. but with that short radius same adjustment gives MORE adjustment, therefore making up for less velocity.. But with the Dissipator, you have full size radius, with carbine velocites.. So does the elevation adjustments on the A2 setup not apply to them, or what? I'm curious. Granted, it won't be a HUGE different, but maybe enough at longer distances, to miss completely.. (?)
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:52:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
At first glance, I found the Dissipator aesthetically displeasing. Looks aside, the weapon's design makes good sense after some time at the range with a brand new Dissipator. The time needed to aquire a quick and precise sight picture with this setup is not noticably different to me versus a standard 16" setup. A more effective advantage for a Dissipator user who has had a good deal of trigger time with 20" barreled AR15/M16 weapons is the familiarity he has with the distance between the sights allowing the picture to come in quickly and more naturally giving him a better combat result which is far more important than aesthetics. I look at the Dissipator model as a good marriage between two very different and effective AR15 setups, each designed for a specific type of combat, giving it a dual purpose role without changing uppers.



Exactly. The ability to make accurate use of the A2 sights for longer range shots, with the handiness of a carbine.
Throw on one of Kurts A3 Tac brakes and it totally changes the way the rifle looks.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:55:13 AM EDT
I was at the local range the other day and some guy was shooting a Bushy Dissipator. They give off a hell of a muzzle flash. Man I love muzzle flash (of course I wouldn't if I was in war)!!
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 12:01:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Basically you get a rifle that has the sight radius and handling of a fullsize, but with a carbine length barrel for close quarters work.



Why would a company "BM" sell a CQB weapon with an increased sight radius. It will simply increase the time to aquire target.


Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
personally i think dissipators look ugly




I was simply making a critique of the nonsensical functionality of the design, but since you mention it, I agree. Dissipators are about the ugliest ARs I have seen.

Diss_ipator = [>(]



What he said.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 12:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 12:46:22 PM EDT by Glocker]
I love mine with the AK-74 brake on the end of it I like the look of them.To each his own I say.Hey "Estoner" will you be in jr high next month? You must be very excited about that!Are you going to ride your skateboard this year?
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 12:49:15 PM EDT
Yes, we're so used to ARs with 20" A2 profiles and 16" CAR profiles that the Dissipator's appearance can be a bit unnerving.

Nevertheless, the longer sight radius is a good thing for longer range shooting (or for more accurate shorter range shooting. Plus, the longer handguards stops those brain-dead "grasp that hot barrel" ouchies that sometimes happen with a CAR-style AR. The BM Dissy will have the exact same operational behavior (gas system, recoil, etc.) as a 16" CAR15 style carbine.

"Dissipator" is just their trade name. The design has nothing really to do with any 'dissipation' of heat. Heat dissipation is affected by lots of things (including thickness of bbl in chamber area). The handguards just stop *you* from getting burned.

If you get a Bushy Dissipator, see if you can order one with the turned (reduced diameter) barrel or fluted barrel to cut down the weight.

I've had my BM Dissipator flattop for 3+ years now (parts gun, Colt postban lower, A1 trapdoor buttstock) - works without problems and is my go-to AR. I have an Elcan 3.4 scope on mine for my tired eyes, yet I can quickly (enough) engage targets.

Don't care if its "ugly" as long as it works!

Bill Wiese
San Mateo, CA



Link Posted: 7/30/2002 1:03:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falkaveli:
I was at the local range the other day and some guy was shooting a Bushy Dissipator. They give off a hell of a muzzle flash. Man I love muzzle flash (of course I wouldn't if I was in war)!!

The muzzle flash was one of the first things I noticed about the Dissy, it was impressive compared to my 20" Bushy A2. It just made the weapon seem a lot more potent when you get a loud report with a nice blast coming out of the muzzle. I kinda enjoy it too, but in a non combat situation of course.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 1:54:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 2:23:06 PM EDT by SPECTRE]
Ahhh, estoner or is it rnader ??? no matter, whichever alias your using this time your still a TROLL !!!
Lets see here, in this thread,www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=112937 you make these claims regarding fixed telestocks.
Originally posted by estoner:
it's a Bushmaster thing for
Wanna-bes


Originally posted by estoner:
FALARAK, You are wrong as usual. Bushmaster was the first go get BATF approval for a fixed version of the telescoping stock. All the other "me-too" companies emulated Bushmaster's fixing technique.


Colt would never offer such a farcical product.

Really escrotum ???? then how is it that colt now offers the model 6400c ??? A wannabe poser m4 BWAHAHAWAWHAHAHAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!
Gee, lets see then, just who did they COPY on this one ???? hmmmm escrotum ????

Hey estoner .......


As for dissipators, I really don't care one way or the other. They do look cool with a A2 flash hider or Kurts A2 brake though.


Link Posted: 7/30/2002 2:09:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falkaveli:
I was at the local range the other day and some guy was shooting a Bushy Dissipator. They give off a hell of a muzzle flash.




Damnit so do I! I love muzzle flash!
(Is it ok to admit that??)

Link Posted: 7/30/2002 3:43:21 PM EDT
My 2 cents on Dissipators:

The original AR's were rifles with long handguards etc. While carbines are handier in close quarters, they have limitations for some folks. If you like the rifle style, a dissipator gives you that in a handier style.

All target rifle ARs are rifles. The long handguards give more hand hold positions. The long sight radius gives more precise aiming. And I've heard that almost everyone in 3 gun matches use long handguards.

Which 3 dissipators to choose? Dissipators are automatically heavier than carbines because of these factors. The long handguards are much weightier and there is an additional gas block under the handguards. So an HBAR dissipator is heavier than a carbine (7.68 lbs) but it's not a disadvantage for target/long range shooting.

The lightest dissapator is the M4 version and with A2 sights can weigh less than 7.1 lbs. Throw in some armalite handguards and 6.9 is the norm. Then you can have a rifle style carbine that weighs less than the 7.2 lbs of the carbine, yet just as handy.

It's great to have choices.

M4-AK
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 3:49:41 PM EDT
Who cares what someone things they look like? A rifle isn't a car or a wife - it's a tool used to put holes in things!

The Dissipator (Eliminator etc.) allows a longer sight radius AND most important for me, a longer handguard to grip. Grabbing the hot barrel of one of my tiny handguarded rifles is one of those lessons that you hate having to learn (again!). For those with eyes on the far side of 40 the longer radius is much kinder as close focus become more and more of a chore as the eyes age (sucks).

If you're just plinking or shooting off of a bench the handguards don't get a bunch of use.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 6:59:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 7:01:54 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
Dissipator: ---sorry, the Bushmaster link did not come through. Please accept a picture of my pre-ban Dissipator in its place:




Short. Sweet. Nice, tight, collapsible back end. Lots up front to soak up the heat.
Feels good to hold.
Form follows function.

It was my first choice.
This argument reminds me of why anyone would buy a .300 Win.Mag.
The 7mm Rem.Mag. works well, and, if it won't do, the .338 Win.Mag. is the next logical choice, making the .300 Win.Mag. kinda useless...UNLESS you only wish to have or can have ONE GUN, thereby making the .300 the ONLY choice, and a good one at that!
To analogize, the Dissipator is the ONE GUN to have when a shorty carbine and/or a fullsize rifle are not the answer.
It fills the needs of both, thereby making it an excellent choice.
Or, put another way, a little ass and big tits are nothing to say NO to...
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 7:46:53 PM EDT
I kind of like the dissipator. Mostly for the longer handguards that people have mentioned before. I don't have an M4, but I have burned myself on my AK a number of times. I also prefer the smaller handguards over the larger M4 ones, though I know they make small standard diameter ones. It's just personal preference I guess. I currently have an order with Bushmaster for a dissipator upper with an M4 barrel. It will weugh a little more than a carbine, but not much. And it will certainly be lighter than my 20" HBAR. Different strokes for different folks really. But I for one like it.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 8:08:45 PM EDT
The muzzle flash was one of the first things I noticed about the Dissy, it was impressive compared to my 20" Bushy A2. It just made the weapon seem a lot more potent when you get a loud report with a nice blast coming out of the muzzle. I kinda enjoy it too, but in a non combat situation of course.

Oh yeah... I have a BM A2/M4 with both the original 16" upper and national match 20" upper. The 16" with the brake shoots fireballs and absolutely mandates both plugs and muffs. If you shoot in a line with other shooters, they're gonna take blasts in the face all day.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:32:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 6:21:50 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

As for dissipators, I really don't care one way or the other. They do look cool with a A2 flash hider or Kurts A2 brake though.





Sphincter, loosen up! You're such an uptight asshole. (pun intended).
You're so full of yourself and full of shit at the same time. I guess we can conclude that :
=


I know who put you up to this worthless assualt.


Originally Posted By bushmaster:
GET HIM SPECTRE!! I'm erasing my last replies to you! My apologies! GET EM'

________________________________________
Jarrod

Bushmaster Firearms
Made With Pride In The U.S.A.



Why don't you add some value to the subject of this thread or run back to the Bushmaster Forum and stick your head back up Jarrod's ass.

Oh by the way.....Colt did build that perfect rifle you wanted...the 6400C...How many did you Buy????

I thought so....

Spectre =
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:43:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 4:43:50 AM EDT by Hawkeye]

Originally Posted By estoner:
Sphincter, loosen up! (pun intended). You're such an uptight asshole.
Why don't you add some value to the subject of this thread or run back to the Bushmaster Forum and stick your head back up Jarrod's ass.



And exactly at what point and time have YOU added anything of substance to this thread??? Or for that matter on the entire board? Every post I have ever seen by you has been either negative, slamming someone, or for no other purpose than to deliberately try and make someone mad.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:55:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 5:10:06 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

And exactly at what point and time have YOU added anything of substance to this thread??? Or for that matter on the entire board? Every post I have ever seen by you has been either negative, slamming someone, or for no other purpose than to deliberately try and make someone mad.



Hawkeye, and what exactly are you adding or trying to accomplish with this post??????

Spectre came in this thread to mix it up with me...not to make any meaningful contribution to the discussion....If he wants to go round again I can accommodate him.

Spectre amuses me. His mindless slanders only go to prove how ignorant and frustrated he is. It is only a matter of time before he is reduced to threats of physical violence again.

Now it seems you are of the same ilk. Must be a Bushmaster thing.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:09:30 AM EDT
Actually I was going to ask the same question yesterday, but just figured I'd forget about it. Then you go an jump on someone else for something you yourself did. Bit hypocritical isnt it?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:15:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 5:16:49 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
To get back on track, here are a couple of pics of my Dissi that I recently sold. Kinda regret it now. It's an A2 with a Wilson Brake. I do currently have a A3 Dissi with Kurts A3 TacBrake on it, but no pics of it yet.






Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:18:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 5:28:14 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Actually I was going to ask the same question yesterday, but just figured I'd forget about it. Then you go an jump on someone else for something you yourself did. Bit hypocritical isnt it?



NO... actually Spectre drew first blood when he came in just to harass me. I was just giving him the courtesy of a reply in kind. Then you butted in taking the thread further off track.

Maybe you should read his post again before you further shove your foot in your mouth.

WTF does this have to do with the technical merits of the Dissipator design.

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Ahhh, estoner or is it rnader ??? no matter, whichever alias your using this time your still a TROLL !!!
Lets see here, in this thread,www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=112937 you make these claims regarding fixed telestocks.
Originally posted by estoner:
it's a Bushmaster thing for
Wanna-bes


Originally posted by estoner:
FALARAK, You are wrong as usual. Bushmaster was the first go get BATF approval for a fixed version of the telescoping stock. All the other "me-too" companies emulated Bushmaster's fixing technique.


Colt would never offer such a farcical product.

Really escrotum ???? then how is it that colt now offers the model 6400c ??? A wannabe poser m4 BWAHAHAWAWHAHAHAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!
Gee, lets see then, just who did they COPY on this one ???? hmmmm escrotum ????

Hey estoner .......


As for dissipators, I really don't care one way or the other. They do look cool with a A2 flash hider or Kurts A2 brake though.






Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
I did think of one advantage of the long front hand guards.

With the increased length the hand guards will make an excellent "butt scratcher".

I can see Bushmasters new Slogan

Better than a Corn Cob by a long shot



About the same as this I suppose.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:33:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By estoner:
I did think of one advantage of the long front hand guards.

With the increased length the hand guards will make an excellent "butt scratcher".

I can see Bushmasters new Slogan

Better than a Corn Cob by a long shot



About the same as this I suppose.



Form, fit and function....I was pointing out the technical merits of the design and illustrating it's alternative usefulness and versatility, since it makes no since otherwise. It is after all a chameleon by design.

If your opinion differs then that is your prerogative. Make a counter argument or stand down.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:41:51 AM EDT
Yes I do feel different. I think Dissi's are very fine rifles and fill a good nitch.

I will yield to your mastership though. I am no match for someone as versed as yourself. I would never have discovered such technical design benefits of using full length AR handguards as a anal scratching device. I bow before you.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:44:26 AM EDT
Hawkeye, I love it when you guys para-phrase and quote out of context.

Here are a few of my other observations on the design. As you can see I'm not alone on these points.

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By estoner:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Basically you get a rifle that has the sight radius and handling of a fullsize, but with a carbine length barrel for close quarters work.



Why would a company "BM" sell a CQB weapon with an increased sight radius. It will simply increase the time to aquire target.


Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
personally i think dissipators look ugly




I was simply making a critique of the nonsensical functionality of the design, but since you mention it, I agree. Dissipators are about the ugliest ARs I have seen.

Diss_ipator = [>(]



What he said.

Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 8:07:59 AM EDT by estoner]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Yes I do feel different. I think Dissi's are very fine rifles and fill a good nitch.



I think you mean "niche" or maybe "notch" (as in butt crack)??? possible freudian slip???? .... hahahaha couldn't resist.


Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
I will yield to your mastership though. I am no match for someone as versed as yourself. I would never have discovered such technical design benefits of using full length AR handguards as a anal scratching device. I bow before you.



The facetious nature of your post is noted....excellent exit strategy...later!!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:06:26 AM EDT
Duely noted. You think they are ugly.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:23:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Actually I was going to ask the same question yesterday, but just figured I'd forget about it. Then you go an jump on someone else for something you yourself did. Bit hypocritical isnt it?



NO... actually Spectre drew first blood when he came in just to harass me. I was just giving him the courtesy of a reply in kind. Then you butted in taking the thread further off track.

Maybe you should read his post again before you further shove your foot in your mouth.

WTF does this have to do with the technical merits of the Dissipator design.

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Ahhh, estoner or is it rnader ??? no matter, whichever alias your using this time your still a TROLL !!!
Lets see here, in this thread,www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=112937 you make these claims regarding fixed telestocks.
Originally posted by estoner:
it's a Bushmaster thing for
Wanna-bes


Originally posted by estoner:
FALARAK, You are wrong as usual. Bushmaster was the first go get BATF approval for a fixed version of the telescoping stock. All the other "me-too" companies emulated Bushmaster's fixing technique.


Colt would never offer such a farcical product.

Really escrotum ???? then how is it that colt now offers the model 6400c ??? A wannabe poser m4 BWAHAHAWAWHAHAHAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!
Gee, lets see then, just who did they COPY on this one ???? hmmmm escrotum ????

Hey estoner .......


As for dissipators, I really don't care one way or the other. They do look cool with a A2 flash hider or Kurts A2 brake though.








How typical escrotum !!! pay no attention to the FACTS and just come around and troll. thing is, you only have a few weeks left and you can change your name again to avoid your bullshit posts, just remember, rnader was too easy. As usual, you shoot your mouth off and get your ass kicked by your own comments !!!!! My comments on the dissipators are on my post at the bottom. The main body I devoted to you because I just wanted to point out how worthless you are and HOW FULL OF SHIT YOU ARE !!!!!
Colt would never offer such a farcical product.
BWAWAHAHAWAWHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!! COLT COPIED BUSHMASTER !!! hehe.......... A "POSER WANNABE" rifle and stock ROTFLMAO !!!!!




Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:39:25 AM EDT
Why don't you two POS take your argument to a different thread? This started out as an interesting topic.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:43:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
I just wanted to point out how worthless you are and HOW FULL OF SHIT YOU ARE !!!!!
Colt would never offer such a farcical product.
BWAWAHAHAWAWHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!! COLT COPIED BUSHMASTER !!! hehe.......... A "POSER WANNABE" rifle and stock ROTFLMAO !!!!!



You really got me this time!!!!

Jarrod will be real proud of you. Maybe he'll give you a Bone


"Sick-em boy.....Sick-em" as he holds your collar and "strokes you"

hahahahaha.....what an image....
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:18:41 AM EDT
I don't really have much to add. I just wanted to get a post in before the lock.



As for Dissipators, different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't volunteer to go up against a well trained individual aiming a Dissipator at me.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:27:05 PM EDT
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