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Posted: 7/29/2002 4:45:21 PM EDT
Someone give me info,I am getting conflicting reports from everyone I speak to or contact.
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 5:05:00 PM EDT
What kind of info? What kinds of conflicting reports? If you're a non-licensee and you're shipping interstate, then it must be received by a licensee. If shipping intrastate, then you may ship to another non-licensee. Non-licensees may ship long guns via USPS, UPS, Federal Express, etc. However, non-licensees are NOT allowed to ship handguns via USPS (only licensees are allowed) and must use a "contract carrier" such as UPS, Federal Express, etc.

AND FOR THE LAST GOD-DAMNED TIME, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEE TO SHIP A FIREARM. ALL OF YOU SHITBIRD DEALERS GET IT STRAIGHT.

We really need to write up some FAQs about shipping firearms along with the appropriate links to the BATF's website and U.S. Postal regulations and tack them up. Moderators?
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 5:08:53 PM EDT
UPS policy:

www.ups.com/using/services/details/firearms.html

From the UPS tariff (actually, 22 as opposed to 120 pages)Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618, enacted
October 22, 1968), as amended by the Firearms Owners' Protection Act (P.L. 99-308, approved May 19, 1986, and a subsequent amendment thereto, P.L. 99-360, approved July 8, 1986) (“the Acts”), law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, and law enforcement agencies of any State or any department, agency or political subdivision thereof, and from a person not
otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law[i/] to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for the sole purpose of repair or customizing, and the repaired firearm or a replacement firearm of the
same kind or type on return from the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer to that person. The shipper must affix a UPS label, requesting an adult signature upon delivery, to each package containing a firearm. Adult means a person 21 years of age or older. Handguns, as defined by the Acts, will only be accepted for transportation in UPS Next Day Air Services, but will not be accepted for transportation via UPS Letter Centers, Internet Shipping, or in response to a request for a One-Time Pickup or for On-Call Pickup Service. Firearms, including handguns, will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS
Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter. Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. Section 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. Section 172. (italics mine).
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 7:34:06 PM EDT
The internet auction sites as well as BATF website as well as USC Codes say I can ship to FFL for transfer to legal buyer.But my FFL dealer as well as other dealers say only FFL to FFL?Help!
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 7:52:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2002 8:11:44 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By blackcollar:
The internet auction sites as well as BATF website as well as USC Codes say I can ship to FFL for transfer to legal buyer.But my FFL dealer as well as other dealers say only FFL to FFL?Help!



I think this is what Jim_Dandy is referring to. We had a problem with just such a situation. ATF finally had to tell FFL it was ok. Got pretty nasty before it was over. He refused to turn the gun over and said he was going to turn it into the ATF. And yes, he had agreed to do the transfer.

Anyway, try to convince him with reason if you can...Good luck:

www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/qanda.htm

Go down to paragraphs B1, B3, B8. I think B8 is what you're looking for. You can't force him to do the transfer though.

Link Posted: 7/30/2002 1:35:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackcollar:
The internet auction sites as well as BATF website as well as USC Codes say I can ship to FFL for transfer to legal buyer.But my FFL dealer as well as other dealers say only FFL to FFL?Help!



Try and educate the dealers usign references to law.

IF they ignore the law or choose to be tighter than the law, you need a new dealer. Let everyone else know who they are so they can make an educated decision to use or not use said dealer. Move on to new dealer and have fun.

mark
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 1:57:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By budam:

Try and educate the dealers usign references to law.

IF they ignore the law or choose to be tighter than the law, you need a new dealer. Let everyone else know who they are so they can make an educated decision to use or not use said dealer. Move on to new dealer and have fun.

mark



Yea, thats why gun control is so "sucessful" cause dealers seems to have no problem with the law (even if they say so otherwise) and they want to make it tighter as well.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 2:22:26 AM EDT
That's my situation.Dealer in another state has my firearm but refuses to transfer to the buyer.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 11:52:38 AM EDT
Have ATF give the FFL a call.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 12:22:59 PM EDT
I had a similar experience with a pistol I purchased from an individual in another state, on another board. My dealer insisted that the seller send it through another FFL. My seller, knowing that this is not a legal requirement, dropped it in the mail. My local dealer refused to release the pistol to me because it did not come from another FFL, so my seller called the ATF. That's when the fun began.

My seller screwed up because he mailed the pistol through the US Mail, which is illegal. Only long guns can be mailed through the USPS. The ATF and the Postal inspector had a long talk with my seller over that one.

The ATF also had several conversations with both myself and the dealer. Many times, the agent I spoke with pointed out that the dealer was not obligated to release the firearm to me, despite the fact that I had already paid for it. My dealer was loathe to release it to me even after the agent encouraged her to do so, perhaps out of fear, or perhaps out of spite.

In the end, it took an extra three weeks to get the pistol because my seller did not meet the demands of my dealer. Therefore, I encourage you to do exactly what your dealer asks of you, or find another dealer that will comply with your request. I can assure you, the extra money is worth avoiding the hassle.

Good Luck,

Johnny E.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 12:43:09 PM EDT

Many times, the agent I spoke with pointed out that the dealer was not obligated to release the firearm to me, despite the fact that I had already paid for it.

Don't misunderstand this. The dealer cannot "just keep" the firearm. He/she must either compensate the prospective buyer, ship it back to the seller, or transfer it to the prospective buyer. An FFL holder cannot confiscate anything.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 4:56:03 PM EDT
You are correct, sir. I guess I should have clarified that part.
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