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Posted: 7/24/2002 10:39:21 AM EDT
Between these two 308's, which one is a better battle rifle in your opinion? Why?
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 10:44:39 AM EDT
i own both,and feel that they both have their merits, the m1a is inherently more accurate, however the FAL handles better.
if it was up close and dirty, the FAL.
if i had to make a lot of intermediate precision shots, the m1.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 11:00:18 AM EDT
I have both....But I will take the FAL. It's Lighter, more ergonomic, and easy to clean.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 11:08:35 AM EDT
Don't own an M1A, but my FAL is pretty nice. Accuracy is just fine, and you're talking about a battle rifle, not a sniper's weapon. I think the FAL beats out the M1A as far as battle rifles are concerned. Cheap mags, too!

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 11:13:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
Don't own an M1A, but my FAL is pretty nice.... Cheap mags, too!

-Gloftoe



Ditto that! See Tapco for the mags...
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 11:38:03 AM EDT
FN FAL when the SHTF. FAL is battle rifle accurate, most urban situations will be at closer range anyway, 100 yds and maybe even 50 yds at max. Realistic senario even closer range than 50 yds! House to house shooting and fighting in urban unrest!

FAL all the way.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 1:25:46 PM EDT
house to house shooting with a .308.....forget room cleaing, just empty a mag through the wall!!

i dont own either gun, nor have i shot either gun(yes, im a deprived kid)

im looking into gettnig an M1A Loaded though.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 1:27:32 PM EDT
I have both. I'd take the M1A because I've spent more time on it, it's more accurate than my FAL and I have the capability of loading mags with only clips if I really get down to the wire.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 1:33:09 PM EDT
I have a FN FAL Para 50.64, this would be it if I need a 308 battle rifle.

Mostly a M4 carbine for urban unrest would be a better choice for me. then againn that is another discussion.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 3:45:26 PM EDT
Actually, I'd pick my 11-87 or FAL in a riot. It's hard to beat a shotgun for mob situations. But in my car, my AR-pistol might come in real handy with its 30 round capacity and extremely small size.

I'd probably grab my FAL with the 18" barrel. It's small, light, powerful, has a much greater ammo capacity and is easy to swing in a tight place. If you have a Canadian dust cover, you can reload a FAL type rifle with stripper clips.

This thread may be sort of prophetic a few months from now. If that cop doesn't get some kind of punishment involving jail time, we are definitely going to have the LA riots part 3. And currently, my drive home takes me right through Inglewood, Crenshaw, Korea Town and Downtown LA.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 3:49:14 PM EDT
My GOD! What ARE you people, Communists???

M1A ALL THE WAY!!
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 3:54:33 PM EDT
tarfu64, I am with you !!

I am gonna grab my M1A and head for the "high ground".
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 3:56:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2002 3:57:28 PM EDT by quietshoez]

Originally Posted By Sodie:

This thread may be sort of prophetic a few months from now. If that cop doesn't get some kind of punishment involving jail time, we are definitely going to have the LA riots part 3.


yeah i hear you.
i'm so fucking sick of the black community trying to threaten and bully their way through shit like this.
even after the rodney king thing, the jury members admitted to the fact that they were swayed by the the threat of civil unrest if they didn't come to the "right" verdict.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 4:49:26 PM EDT


The FN FAL (Actually the FN 50.00 L.A.R.)
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 4:52:39 PM EDT
I'm with M1A, but I would get the Scout w/aimpoint.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 4:54:43 PM EDT
I think the more important pick would be a Shorty FAL or M1A Scout. I would take the shorter rifle.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 5:10:42 PM EDT
I will take my Bushy and my M1A.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 5:16:06 PM EDT
A properly built FAL would be my choice.

By properly built I mean an original pre-ban Belgian rifle, a pre-ban Springfield Armory SAR-48 (Imbel) or a pre-ban Argentine model.

Post ban rifles that are equal to the workmanship and reliablity of the pre-bans would be DSA or one of the rifles put together by the master FAL smiths like Mark Graham, Derek Huffman, or George Gouger.

The FAL is more reliable under most any conditions (the adjustable gas system is a real bonus), has better ergonomics, and is more than combat accurate for most any job.

The M1A is a fine rifle, and is usually more accurate out of the box, but is much more complicated to take down and it isn't easy to get the gas system clean.

As far as US civillians go, FAL magazines cost 1/4 of what M14 magazines do and there are tons of spare parts available for them at extremely reasonable prices.

This is my pre-ban Springfield Armory SAR-48 Para.

Link Posted: 7/24/2002 5:51:56 PM EDT
If you live in California the choice is easy - the one that is legal - the Springfield M1A. The FAL is legal without the pistol grip - but what holds the trigger guard in place? Is that screw that hands out of the bottom of the reciever concidered a pistol grip by the Kalifornia AG?
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 5:56:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Mostly a M4 carbine for urban unrest would be a better choice for me. then againn that is another discussion.



Preach it brotha!
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 7:34:55 PM EDT
FAL if you are a commie eurotrash fag. M1A if you are a real American hero.

Seriously, contrary to what others said I think the ergonomics on the M1A is far superior to the FAL. Who ever came up that dumb idea of cocking it with your left hand?
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 7:51:12 PM EDT
Because it's easier that way, if the rifle is on your right shoulder, and you're right handed. Think about it for a while.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 8:03:35 PM EDT

Caliber: 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester)
Barrel: 22", Twist: 1 turn in 11 inches, right hand, six-groove national match air gauged premium
Mechanism: Rotating bolt, gas operated, air cooled, semi-automatic magazine fed rifle.
Capacity: *10 round box magazine (rifles come with one magazine).
Sights: Front: National Match front blade .062
Rear: GI Match Grade (non-hooded .520) aperture with one minute elevation, half minute windage adjustments
Size: 9.2 pounds Length: 44 1/3" long
Trigger Pull: 4 1/2 lbs., two-stage military trigger.

As I will not be "clearing" anything, and will be protecting my Home I'll go with what my M1A
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 8:12:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tarfu64:
My GOD! What ARE you people, Communists???

M1A ALL THE WAY!!




Originally Posted By Flash66:
FAL if you are a commie eurotrash fag. M1A if you are a real American hero.



Uh, communist? I'm probably missing something, but which communist country is it that uses the FAL as their army's rifle?

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 9:01:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2002 9:02:17 PM EDT by --BATMAN--]
www.hunting-pictures.com/members/MolonLabe/smallfal2.jpg

www.hunting-pictures.com/members/MolonLabe/smallfal1.jpg

Granted I'm not in an urban setting here. Nevertheless I'm sure you get the idea.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 10:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2002 10:13:32 PM EDT by QBit]
Am I defending against, or causing the "Urban Unrest"?

Defending: M1A. On the roof with a sandbag.

Causing: FAL w/SUIT and a duffel of rifle grenades.

On the other hand, it would be WAY more satisfying to buttstroke with the M1A.

Do I get a bayonet? Do pistol grips and bayonets work together? Seems gawkward...
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 10:16:53 PM EDT
Upon further reflection, I think I'll take an M1A when I'm at the "Urban Unrest". With my duffelbag of rifle grenades, bayonet, and Leatherwood "torso driller" scope, I'm ready for almost anything.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:11:16 AM EDT
The best rifle to have if SHTF and you are caught in an exposed position is the one that you are willing to have with you night and day, banging around the trunk of your car, when the S actually hits the F and you need a weapon, right now. All that is required is that it works, and you know how to shoot and hit with it. Anything beyond that falls into the "nice to have but not necessary" category, such as:

1. Tough. Advantage: FAL
Note: If the shit is hitting the fan, and you are traveling or moving, you WILL drop your rifle or bang it hard on something.
2. Accurate. Advantage: M1A
Note: There is a reason my the military specifies 2 moa for the M16. That is all that is needed.
3. Light/Handy. Neither.
Note: if you are caught exposed when the S hits the F, you will be moving, and fast. Operating a vehicle, etc. Try running across you yard and jumping in your car, getting it running and on the move with your full size rifle!

Static defense is another story.
Here accuracy is better put to use, and you are less apt to abuse/damage your weapon.

Summation: it depends on the application. All I know about the M1A is what I have heard....that they are prone to shifting POI and accuracy can go to hell if the wood stock gets wet, the rifle has to be stripped for maintenence, or is abused.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 2:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:


1. Tough. Advantage: FAL
Note: If the shit is hitting the fan, and you are traveling or moving, you WILL drop your rifle or bang it hard on something.



I really doubt the FAL is any tougher than an M-14 clone.


Summation: it depends on the application. All I know about the M1A is what I have heard....that they are prone to shifting POI and accuracy can go to hell if the wood stock gets wet, the rifle has to be stripped for maintenence, or is abused.



I've heard the POI shift stuff too, although I've never actually had it happen to me. The only problem I have with my sight is that the locking thumbscrew unscrews while shooting, requiring tightening every once in a while. Either way, if I'm in a barricade situation (which is the only situation I'm going to be in) I'm going scoped, so the potential sight problem is moot.

Wood stocks? Ever heard of synthetic? It's what I use on my rifle. I use the el cheapo M-14 stock, but MacMillan makes some damn nice heavy-duty fiberglass stuff that is more like the National Match walnut stock in stiffness and feel.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:18:21 PM EDT
FAL, because as it stands right now I can get magazines for it waaay cheaper than I can for an M1A, and I like to have a lot of mags.

Plus the FAL is much more customizable... para stocks, carbines, accessory rails, forward grips, heavy machinegun barrels etc... and if you really need it, they can be accurized to better than M1A performance.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 4:54:32 PM EDT
FAL all the way, I have 2 right now, building my 3rd. One is a 21" Imbel kit on a Gear Logo Imbel, it shoot's MOA with the issue sights. My favorite is my G1 kit on a Imbel non gear logo, it's cut to 18" and feels so handy, it's only a 2 MOA gun though, but so what?
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:20:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 8:39:11 PM EDT
i have had both.........both are great guns.....hmmm.......i'd take my m1 garand!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 11:22:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XxSLASHERxX:
i have had both.........both are great guns.....hmmm.......i'd take my m1 garand!



Only you would take something just as old as you Slash.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:20:09 AM EDT
I don't quite get using a 7.62 for "urban" scenarios unless you mean shooting through cars and houses and such. 5.56 would probably be much handier at expected engagement distances.

The 7.62 comes to play beyond 200-300 meters. And for that, my preference is a scoped SR-25. A FAL is nice to have, cheaper than an SR-25, tough and reliable. Not as accurate. But mags are damn cheap.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:02:08 AM EDT
I love both, but for urban combat, I think you're better off with an AR.

1. Mag Capacity
2. ability to carry more ammo

Ask Marines who fought at Hue.
They'll tell you how much more ammo, and grenades they needed, than when they were in the jungle.

On the other hand, if you are anticipating, or putting yourself into a situation where you might be in any prolonged gun-battles, you're a dead man, anyhow.

Sometimes it's smarter to think as prey rather than predator.

Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:48:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gotshorty:

The 7.62 comes to play beyond 200-300 meters.




This statement cracks me up! Does a 7.62 round suddenly appear out of thin air at around 200-300 meters? Are you seriously suggesting that inside of these ranges a 7.62 round is 'not in play' and somehow inneffective?
If i was involved in a serious civil unrest situation as described and could take only one weapon with me, definitely an AR-10 with 200 rds. This weapon will 'play' at any range from 1 foot to as far as I can see and hit.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 7:51:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wiggy762:

Originally Posted By gotshorty:

The 7.62 comes to play beyond 200-300 meters.




This statement cracks me up! Does a 7.62 round suddenly appear out of thin air at around 200-300 meters? Are you seriously suggesting that inside of these ranges a 7.62 round is 'not in play' and somehow inneffective?
If i was involved in a serious civil unrest situation as described and could take only one weapon with me, definitely an AR-10 with 200 rds. This weapon will 'play' at any range from 1 foot to as far as I can see and hit.



That and in a civil urest situation, I might want to shoot "through cars" to get to the mofo shootin' at me from behind one!!
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 11:25:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wiggy762:

Originally Posted By gotshorty:

The 7.62 comes to play beyond 200-300 meters.



This statement cracks me up! Does a 7.62 round suddenly appear out of thin air at around 200-300 meters? Are you seriously suggesting that inside of these ranges a 7.62 round is 'not in play' and somehow inneffective?



Glad you found it funny. Let me further expound: The 7.62 is fine for 0- oh say 800 meters. The 5.56 in carbine form is good for 0-to 250 meters. My AR15 carbine goes about 6.5 pounds whereas the scoped SR25 goes about 12. AR15 is also shorter and loaded 30 round mags weigh less than loaded 20 round SR25 mags. So what I intended by my first statement is that the caliber benefits of 7.62 begin to outweigh the weight and size increases when I need to either reach out or punch thru something.

Without either a distance or penetration requirement, I feel I am better suited with an AR. Sure the 7.62 is effective from 0-200, but so is the AR (again, caveating penetration), so it is logical for me to go with the lighter, handier weapon that I can carry more ammo.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 12:33:05 PM EDT
Do you not get along with your neighbors Hk45usp?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 3:08:53 PM EDT
All you .30 cal fans have decided to not move anywhere during this civil unrest I take it? That ammo is heavy. Hope no one figures out how to set the building your in on fire or nothin'.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 3:30:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gotshorty:
Without either a distance or penetration requirement, I feel I am better suited with an AR. Sure the 7.62 is effective from 0-200, but so is the AR (again, caveating penetration), so it is logical for me to go with the lighter, handier weapon that I can carry more ammo.



The penetration abilities of 7.62NATO are a bit overestimated. Going through anything more than light cover is going to cause problems for .308. I agree with you, 5.56NATO is a much better solution. An AR is light and accurate, more ammo can be carried, and for urban encounters which are likely to be well within 300 yards it's sufficient.

However, sticking within the parameters of the question, I'd go with a FAL as an overal compromise urban battle rifle.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:18:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
.... The penetration abilities of 7.62NATO are a bit overestimated. Going through anything more than light cover is going to cause problems for .308 ....




GBT, agreed that the 7.62 is no 50 caliber. If the situation demands punching through cinderblock or concrete, I'll be pretty much shit outta luck.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 11:05:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 11:07:42 AM EDT by Wobblin-Goblin]
I can't say I ever shot at a concrete or block wall before, but I have shot at numerous trees. The 5.56 will go through up to "about" 5-6" of tree. The 7.62 will go through up to "about" 9-12" of tree.

My experience.

BTW, the M14/M1A is my favorite rifle of all time, but I would probably take my FAL in a pinch. If I chose a .308 rifle. It seems to be more of a battle-designed tool (pistol grip, adjustable gas system, simplicity in field-stripping, "stock-bolt" plane closer than M14, etc.) than the M14. It pains me to say that, but I do believe it.

Edited b/c I goofed.
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