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Posted: 7/19/2002 9:28:23 AM EDT
How long and how difficult was it to obtain? I got my packet on Thursday and am in the process of getting my character references together(two down, two to go). After you submit it and get fingerprinted, how long does it take? Also, what did you say when asked why you want/need a concealed carry permit? Finally, did any of you apply in Greene/Columbia county? That's the area I'm in and was hoping someone had a similar experience to share.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 9:39:06 AM EDT
You will be waiting awhile for a response,...

I DON'T THINK NY HAS EVER APPROVED ONE OF THESE!!!!!

...unless you are Rosie ODonnel's bodyguard...


mug
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 9:47:42 AM EDT
Mug, if you don't know what the hell you're talking about, don't talk about it. Rosie doesn't even live in NY state.

Gunner - I believe it usually takes 4-6 months. Check www.packing.org, somebody on there maybe from your county. You'll also be able to find out exactly what to put for purpose. From what my friends with NY permits say, self defense is not a good thing to put down in most counties, but hunting/target shooting works.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 9:54:51 AM EDT
Gunner, I am in upstate ny, not to far from you and it usually takes between 4 to 8 months. Count more on 6 months. The processing is very fast and then it sits on the judges desk for about 4 months. It is BS, but that is the way it works. Someone was correct, don't put for self-defense or protection, very bad. NY doesn't have to issue a permit and will sometimes decline it if you put that. Some counties will only issue you a restricted carry permit. This allows for hunting/target shooting, but doesn't allow for carry concealed or carry in a vehicle loaded. Some counties will issues that, then you can take an additional course and get the restriction lifted to have a full carry unrestricted permit. You should put something along the lines of for hunting/target shooting. If you know any members of the Sheriff's dept. there, give them a buzz and see what they say. They would likely know the pistol permit person. Any other questions, let me know and I will do my best to help you out.

Link Posted: 7/19/2002 10:05:43 AM EDT
It really depends on what county you reside in, as the county Judge in charge of issuing permits has the descretion as to what type of permit is issued. Some counties are gun friendly, others are far from it. This is the hell of the NY pistol permit system.

In Onondaga County, a pre-approved safety course must also be completed before you submit your application.

I obtained a carry permit without even requesting one back when I was in college over a decade ago. That went the way of the dodobird with the changing of the guard, so to speak, when a Liberal elitist Republican Judge occupied the throne. He has been replaced, but carry permits are still limited. 3 of my friends all recently rec'd permits, limited to target shooting and hunting only (which is what they requested, I believe). Time was a bit better than expected, about 2 months +/-.

Make sure your references quickly return their forms (they will recieve a form asking questions about YOU!), as this will hold up the procedure if not promptly returned.

Good luck! If your Judge is an anti, you will need it!
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 1:23:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 1:44:45 PM EDT
NY pistol permits vary so greatly that it all comes down to the county. I can only speak for sure about Oswego, Chenango, and Broome county. All seem to take about 3 months. It is not that difficult to obtain, I know at least a few people worried about it because they had youthful offender records. Of these two got theirs and one is pending.

The paper work is basically the same although some counties send the character witness forms out once they recieve your application, while others leave it up to you to get them filled out and return with your app. The former adds a few weeks to the process, but it comes down to how soon your references get the paper done for you.

I was lucky enough to get a permit through Oswego County. I have carry concealed any where but NYC. I moved to Broome county but can still carry and now all my friends are jealous.

I think what I said should be good current info because my permit is less than a year old.

My advice is just don't put it off and get it over with. They make the paperwork intimidating but if you just plow through it then its no big deal. I regret having put it off as long as I did. I was so nervous and anal about it too when I picked up the packet. The instructions say BLACK INK ONLY and one of my references filled out their form in blue, I almost shit. I called the county clerk and told him and he laughed at me, "get a grip son, we aren't going to deny you for blue ink".
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 1:53:14 PM EDT
The others are exactly right...It all depends on what county you reside in and how the judge/issuing authority feels about ccw. It took me 12 months to get my full carry in Westchester county and even longer for NYC and I had friendly judges walking my papers through.
If you're upstate and don't have any felony or domestic violence misdemeanor convictions, you shoud have no problem in 3-6 months.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 2:29:08 PM EDT
Ordinary mortals can't get carry permits in New York City but you can get a restricted target permit.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 2:57:55 PM EDT
A good reason to put down that a member suggested in a similar thread last year was for hunting, target shooting, and for all legal purposes. That covers the whole spectrum. Self defense scares a lot of judges so it's best to leave this purpose out.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:14:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
A good reason to put down that a member suggested in a similar thread last year was for hunting, target shooting, and for all legal purposes. That covers the whole spectrum. Self defense scares a lot of judges so it's best to leave this purpose out.



Actually, the application only has boxes that you check- concealed or premises only, or for work.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:24:03 PM EDT
It took me over 12 months to get mine, and YES, say it's for hunting and target purposes!

It wouldn't hurt to have a police officer as a personal reference. They WILL eventually call you for an interview (mine was while I was at work), and it can seem a bit intimidating. Yes, there is the required safety course... we had one city-type guy in our class who actually asked the instructor if it would be possible to have the currently UNREGISTERED pistols in his possession transferred onto the permit once it was issued!! You should have seen the look on the instructor's face when he heard that!

ANYway, good luck on this, and keep us posed as to your progress. In the end, it will be worth the effort.

FITTER out
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:32:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2002 4:34:34 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:40:34 PM EDT
Chautauqua county, took me about 3 months. submitted in January, got it in April. no restrictions
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:46:41 PM EDT
In regards to the interview: again a county by county issue, so make sure to specify. Oswego requires no interview (or safety class for that matter) however Chenango makes you meet the judge personally. Kind of BS if you ask me because now one man's opinion comes into play based on the impression you make.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 5:53:57 PM EDT
Took me 5 months my wife 6 months in Schenectady county. Told NOT to use police as reference.
Gerry
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 5:54:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maelcum:
Mug, if you don't know what the hell you're talking about, don't talk about it. Rosie doesn't even live in NY state.



Uuh!
She has a house in Scarlsdale, just outside of NYC.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 5:58:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Helldog40:
The others are exactly right...It all depends on what county you reside in and how the judge/issuing authority feels about ccw. It took me 12 months to get my full carry in Westchester county and even longer for NYC and I had friendly judges walking my papers through.
If you're upstate and don't have any felony or domestic violence misdemeanor convictions, you shoud have no problem in 3-6 months.

Helldog40, where do you apply in Westchester County for a CCW? My wife wishes to apply for her carry permit and I would like to apply at the same time. At least if one of us gets it that's better than no one having it. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 8:15:55 AM EDT
Like everyone said..it depends on the county you reside in.

I got my full carry permit in upstate NY ( one county down from you) in 7 weeks. No interview needed. But I was also not allowed to use law enforcement as references. Oh did I mention that the license is "lifetime" or as it says, "Good Until Revoked"? No need to renew it ever. Convenient to say the least.

On the flip side, I have friends living on Long Island and the City who have waited up to 12 months for their permits which specifically states that it is for target use only. I believe they are subject to an interview process and they also must renew it tri-annually (I think) with a hefty renewal fee.

Like Counterstrike said....Just get your application in, the sooner you do the sooner you will get that important piece of paper.
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 9:37:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
Helldog40, where do you apply in Westchester County for a CCW? My wife wishes to apply for her carry permit and I would like to apply at the same time. At least if one of us gets it that's better than no one having it. Thanks.



Oneshot: call the County Clerk's office (license division) located in White Plains in the "bridge gallery" between the Michaelean office bldg. and the County Courthouse. Lucky for you, I believe they handle all permits now instead of local PD (like New Rochelle)
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 10:45:38 AM EDT
Much useful info here... www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=113926

Pay particular attention to the advice of DSAFALS. He knows what he is talking about.
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 11:10:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2002 11:14:59 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
A while back, I E-mailed DSAFALS on the subject of obtaining a full carry permit in NY. Since our correspondence doesn’t contain any sensitive info, I feel free to post his response.

Here is my E-mail to him...

Hello, my name is ******* (NY Patriot on AR15.com), and having just read your very informative post on AR15.com, I was hoping that you might be able to give me some quick and informal advice concerning my situation.

I reside in Westchester Co., and have had a "target & hunting only" pistol permit for 7+ years. I have absolutely no criminal record (only been issued a couple of traffic tickets and a single "in a public park after dark" ticket in my entire life (33 years). I am a married, college graduate, who is gainfully employed. In short, I am a peaceful and well-adjusted member of society.

My only sin is that I value my God given right to bear arms, and this has given rise to the notion that I might apply for an unrestricted permit.
After reading your post, I am sure that I will be denied on the grounds that I don't have a pressing need to carry unrestricted. Fine, I understand that I will lose round #1.

My questions to you are what is involved in appealing such a decision, and given what I have told you, what do you think the chances are of having the denial overturned in my favor?
I am even willing to fight this matter out in the courts should the need arise. What would be involved if I were to take my fight this far? How long could such a case take to be decided, and how much might such a legal battle cost?

Bottom line my friend... am I wasting my time even trying to get an unrestricted permit in Westchester CO., or do I have a chance if I am willing to sacrifice some time and money?

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to your reply.

Cont...



Link Posted: 7/20/2002 11:12:23 AM EDT
Here is his reply...

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE. CONSULT YOUR LAWYER BEFORE TAKING OR NOT TAKING ANY ACTIONS.

I am glad you got some insight into the pistol licensing nonsense in New York State from my posts. Before I got my license I picked up the legal handbook I cite in the post and did my homework looking at case law beforehand. I must tell you that at least 50% of N. Y. S. Pistol license holders have no idea what they have in their hands. Based upon what you have mailed me below, my first piece of advice is to buy that book and pay 6 or 7 dollars a year to keep it updated. The book also contains the NYS Penal law sections regarding pistols, long arms, antiques, ammunition, and even explosives and fireworks. If you are that serious about carrying, you must know the statutes regarding use of deadly force in New York State. I could summarize the laws as "You can never shoot" because that is really what it is. Robbery with deadly force, forcible rape, sodomy of a minor, arson, kidnap, that is it. Even pointing your rod at someone stealing from your store can get you criminally charged and sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress or similar tort.

This being said, I live in Nassau County and rarely if ever, do I even carry my gun loaded to the range on my person as permitted by my Nassau County carry license, I just throw it in the trunk with the ammo. The odds in Westchester or Nassau of being put in a position where you can use deadly force (and remember in New York any discharge of a gun is deadly force, period) has got to be a million to one. If the odds were higher, Nassau Police would not be issuing carry licenses allowing carry to and from the range knowing full well that half the people in the county were joining 24 hour a day ranges and getting themselves a de facto unrestricted carry licenses. Another factoid, if you are a Westchester resident you share a border with the Bronx, and as I see it, and as the practice book about firearms reads it directly from the State Penal Law, a non-NYC Permit is OF NO EFFECT IN THE 5 BOROUGHS. What does this mean? You get stuck on the Hutchinson while going to the shooting range and come down into the Bronx by accident while carrying in your shoulder holster. You get pulled over for speeding past Co-Op City and the gun print of your .44 magnum revolver under the jacket you are wearing is a dead give away. Even if the cop lets you go, you are getting cuffed and pulled out of that car by 25 gangbusters. At worst, the way the law reads, you can get criminally charged with class D felony possession. The cops may even charge you with the law even though a judge would throw the case out of Court and let you off with a warning because that arrest goes into your computer and you will likely get your pistol license revoked when it comes up for renewal and you have to state if you have ever been arrested.

Cont...
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 11:13:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2002 11:22:56 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Now directly on to your question. The standard of review for the granting of an unrestricted carry permit is, according to scuttlebutt, less high then in the City of New York. The City of New York is also now in the habit of granting a carry license restricted to ' while in the performance of business matters only and back and forth in between'. You can pretty much count NYC unrestricted carries to retired law enforcement, celebrities, and those who have had attempts on their life. I do not think Nassau or Westchester are restricting business carry permits for this basis but I have no direct knowledge. That being said, unless you are a business owner, carrying large sums of cash, have had attempts on your life, run a gun store, or know the police commissioner, you are not getting Westchester unrestricted carry. If you file a request to amend the license to state this, and it is denied, you can file and Article 78 in Westchester Supreme Court,I believe, and can file papers stating that the License examiner's determination was not grounded in law, or arbitrary and capricious. Either way, case law affirmed by the Court of Appeals supports the license authority's decision to place restrictions on licenses. I can tell you with great certitude that your appeal will be denied at the trial court level. You are then looking at an appeal, and possible two appeals, the last to the Court of Appeals. Others have been there and done that though. Paying lawyers to do this would be burning money. If however, you have a lot of free time, and want to try and do it yourself, then you could look at the whole process as a learning experience and orally argue and all that, if that floats your boat.

An Article 78 Petition must be filed almost immediately after you are officially denied by the licensing authority. If the lawyer does it for you, you are looking at 7500 to 10000 in legal costs, as a petition of this nature requires extensive book and computer-based research and writing. If you do an appeal, then it really gets expensive. You could spend 3 to 6 months in the low court any and maybe another 5 in the appeals Court.

Bottom line, unless you have some type of unique job, or have alot of $ to burn, my humble and non-legal opinion is FORGET IT. You already have a defacto carry license anyway and that is probably the best way to look at it.

Link Posted: 7/20/2002 12:02:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mugzilla:
You will be waiting awhile for a response,...

I DON'T THINK NY HAS EVER APPROVED ONE OF THESE!!!!!

...unless you are Rosie ODonnel's bodyguard...


mug



DUDE!! There's more to NY than NYC...

EX-Tonawandan...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 7:09:29 AM EDT
I got my NY permit at 18. Suffolk County. Took 6 months (I believe they have to process within 6 months legally... or so I have been told) That was 20 years ago now (damn! I'm old!). At that time they did interview my references (4 were required, I think) and they also visited my neighbors on either side and visited my parents before arrpoving the application!
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 3:38:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Helldog40:

Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
Helldog40, where do you apply in Westchester County for a CCW? My wife wishes to apply for her carry permit and I would like to apply at the same time. At least if one of us gets it that's better than no one having it. Thanks.



Oneshot: call the County Clerk's office (license division) located in White Plains in the "bridge gallery" between the Michaelean office bldg. and the County Courthouse. Lucky for you, I believe they handle all permits now instead of local PD (like New Rochelle)

Thanks Helldog40, that would be great if they handle it for me, the local PD would probably laugh thier asses off if I have to go through them for a CCW.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 8:51:23 PM EDT
Got mine at 18 in 2000, right before the age increase to 21. It took about 3 1/2 months. That was in Broome County.
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