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Posted: 7/17/2002 1:40:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 2:02:06 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
Did anyone happen to see the new American Rifleman yet? I found this to be one of the best issues I have ever seen. It seems half of the magazine was dedicated to the M-14/M1A rifle! It lists the rifles complete history, the process of selecting the rifle and ammo, etc. It also had a soldier's account that included stories of how the 7.62mm round was used to penetrate trees and cover to get at the VC hiding behind them. It also has a section dealing with the new Carlos Hathcock "White Feather" version of the M1A. Now these are the kind of articles I enjoy reading about. I don't get too excited over trap guns, muzzleloaders, etc, but military rifles are my thing. That includes classic bolt guns like the Springfield 1903 and Mausers all the way through the most modern designs. This was a great edition, so get your hands on one of these magazines. If you're not in the NRA, maybe you have a buddy who is and will let you read his copy.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:12:08 AM EDT
I agree! Excellent issue!

I got a kick out of that one small piece where it said that the Japanese did not want to invade the West Coast after Pearl Harbor because of the armed citizens and State championships with civilians shooting military rifles.

Take that! You "anti-" sheeples!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:30:35 AM EDT
Yes, it was an excellent issue. But I'm sure the "trees" that the .308 can shoot through tend to be on the smallish side.

Did you happen to see the photo of Carlos Hathcock's signature that goes on the M25 rifle? His MS, from which he eventually died, is really apparent. He was a great Marine and that's a lousy disease for anybody to suffer through.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 7:02:23 AM EDT
Definatly one of the best issues ever!!

I also really liked the article by G. David Tubb.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:52:36 AM EDT
Heh, I was just thinking the same thing last night. (just got it few days ago)

Bringing this thread back to say this is another good issue of american rifleman.

Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:06:27 PM EDT
Pretty humble article on Gunny in June 01 issue of Precision Shooting magazine.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:15:11 PM EDT
Gotta agree. Now that's the kind of issue I'm really interested in. I qualified with one in jr. ROTC in the mid-sixties and always wanted one. Finally bought a Springfield Armory Nat'l Match in '86. Great rifle and a fun shooter. Sure would liked to have tried one in full-auto mode, but I probably would've been hitting everything but the target!
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 1:53:23 PM EDT by TacticalMan]

Originally Posted By marvl:
Yes, it was an excellent issue. But I'm sure the "trees" that the .308 can shoot through tend to be on the smallish side.


Both the 30/06 and the .308 are rated for 36 inches of penetration in Oak at 200 yards with standard ball ammo. I call a 3ft Oak "largish".

My favorite was David Tubb's article. I was really happy to see his findings with Moly coating mirror mine.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 1:58:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 8:04:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Both the 30/06 and the .308 are rated for 36 inches of penetration in Oak at 200 yards with standard ball ammo. I call a 3ft Oak "largish".



True, but after penetrating 3 feet of oak the only thing the bullet could kill would be an ant, and that only by falling on it.

My point is, how much wood can a .308 penetrate and still be lethal to a human?
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 9:40:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ski223:
I agree! Excellent issue!

I got a kick out of that one small piece where it said that the Japanese did not want to invade the West Coast after Pearl Harbor because of the armed citizens and State championships with civilians shooting military rifles.

Take that! You "anti-" sheeples!



When I read that, it reminded me of a post here a little while ago about a dutch guy (I THink) was telling a member at a wedding about what other countries think of us.

Keving67
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 5:40:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By keving67:

Originally Posted By ski223:
I agree! Excellent issue!

I got a kick out of that one small piece where it said that the Japanese did not want to invade the West Coast after Pearl Harbor because of the armed citizens and State championships with civilians shooting military rifles.

Take that! You "anti-" sheeples!



When I read that, it reminded me of a post here a little while ago about a dutch guy (I THink) was telling a member at a wedding about what other countries think of us.

Keving67



And what would that be?
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 2:56:24 PM EDT
OK. How about a citation of a citation?


U.S. Ordnance manuals list the penetration of the .30-'06 as M2 ball as 36" of oak at 200 yds. Since the ballistics of the ball 7.62mm round are essentially the same, I can only assume that the 7.62 will do the same although I have never tried this personally. I DO know that a .30-'06 AP round will punch a power transmission pole at 200 yards like Swiss Cheese. I've been waiting for some bad guy to hide behind a telephone pole for years!

www.jouster.com/articles30m1/M16part2.html
I can only assume that AP would have better penetration.
Personally, I have shot and killed squirrels on the other side of 24+ inches of Oak at close range with 123gr 7.62x39 FMJ ammo.

.30 cal - Teaching the difference between "concealment" & "cover" for over 100 years!
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 3:15:12 PM EDT
I got it too. Great magazine. It prompted a post a few days ago about the M1A Scout Rifle. I had a few questions for those in the know.

Nobody seemed to know squat....which is too bad since I'm a carbine freak and have been thinking about getting one for some time now.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 3:21:11 PM EDT
I thought it was excellent as well. It usually is though. I wish that they had discussed the forged vs. cast parts issue and that they had talked about some of the other manufacturers such as Fulton Armory, Smith Enterprises and Armscorp. I wasn't surprised to find the back page with an ad for Springfield Armory--it was the first place I looked after I read the article.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 3:25:16 PM EDT
Did anyone notice the side bar by Bill Davis? He was involved in the original design of the 5.56 NATO round. He is now apparently the official ballistician for American Rifleman.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 4:39:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4:
I got it too. Great magazine. It prompted a post a few days ago about the M1A Scout Rifle. I had a few questions for those in the know.

Nobody seemed to know squat....which is too bad since I'm a carbine freak and have been thinking about getting one for some time now.



I still don't know squat but according to Springfield they were getting good play from the LEO community with the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 4:55:43 PM EDT
it made me want to go out and buy an M1A, thats really a pretty gun!
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 7:55:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Personally, I have shot and killed squirrels on the other side of 24+ inches of Oak at close range with 123gr 7.62x39 FMJ ammo.



Yeah, but I'll bet the squirrel wasn't wearing body armor, and probably wasn't shooting back. On the other hand, if the oak was one of those new species of "terrorist oaks" I guess you could call it a clean shot.

Link Posted: 7/23/2002 8:51:59 PM EDT
Just read the issue myself, and its making me catch m14/m1a fever again -- which sucks, I'm in college and cant afford one. Guess thats why I'm in college so i can get a job and afford the toys then. I also enjoyed David Tubb's article. Overall a great issue, and the part about armed citizens stopping the thought of a Japanese invasion was great to see. We do have homeland defense ARs according to that logic.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 2:51:38 AM EDT
M14 fever seems to be catching everywhere next monday our boots are going to fire the KD course with the M14.I tried to volunteer but i get out the 1st of August and they made the excuse i would have turned my gear in already.
Its not just my battalion thats doing this the rest of 1st Marines and 5th Marines are doing it too.My company has 64 qoutas for this range.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 5:04:46 PM EDT
I take that back its only 24 qoutas this range.8 per platoon.
I asked why,and they want to now incorperate the M14 as the SEALS do as a mission based weapon.1st sgt said they are also gonna work the best guys into the DMR system.
Anybody going on this range has to be a second award expert.
Link Posted: 7/24/2002 6:24:08 PM EDT
Dang USMC, that almost makes me want to be a jarhead rather than Army. It's awesome to see people start to wise up to what a properly employed '14 can bring to a unit. I'd be volunteerin' myself for that one any way I could.
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