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Posted: 7/12/2002 9:48:11 PM EDT
hello,

At a gunshop sales event today, I got to talk with a Remington Rep. about 700s. I wanted to buy a 700 PSS or a VS.

He said while he could get me either of those, I should be interested in one of his "contract overrun milspec 700"

here is what he said:

1. "milspec" match 24" barrel (just missing the black oxide treatment, so it is matte SS instead)
2. HS prec. stock
3. hinged floorplate
4. short action

he said remington had some barrels left over from some M40's, so they built up some as batch of "milspec" Remington 700s.

Anyways, i have never heard of this rifle, the rep. said several of the rifles have already been sold, and people should know about them.

so I was curious if anyone thought this was fishy salesman. For instance, I thought the M40 used an aftermarket barrel.

The Rep. said a sample of this rifle will be at the sale tomorrow, so I was hoping to inspect it, and ask a few questions.

Any specific questions I should I ask ?

thx,
psywar
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:52:21 PM EDT
This isnt the first that I've heard about them. One of the guys on www.snipercountry.com was talking about them. I believe remington contracts the barrels out. Anyway, what were they asking for them?

I've noticed a huge surge in long range rifle questions lately. Someone must of started the fire
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 10:26:05 PM EDT
more info from snipecountry.com:

"I just bought a factory Rem 700 w/ a 5r barrell. From what I can understand from my local ffl dealer, 300ish were made by Remington for accu-sport and was wondering if anyone else bought one? It has a 24 inch mil-spec 5r barrel in .308, a stainless SA receiver & barrell w/ a brushed stainless finish and a black VS stock.

My question: Is it basically an M24 without the adjustable stock and black finish? Any help with this will be most appreciated."


1. anyone know what a 5r barrel is ?
2. what/who is accu-sport ?


thx,
jim
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 2:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By psywar:
...
1. anyone know what a 5r barrel is ?
...



IIRC, it's the same barrel used in the M24,
5 lands with a r/h twist.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 3:12:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 3:17:20 AM EDT by Arock]
Remington is now selling M-24's. Real M-24's.



www.remingtonle.com/rifle/m24.htm

$2400 to $6700 depending on the package.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 3:21:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By psywar:
1. anyone know what a 5r barrel is ?



It's a Boots Obermeyer design using 5 lands and a special angle to the lands.

Said to treat bullets more gently. Gaining legendary status for accuracy.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:46:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By psywar:

2. what/who is accu-sport ?


thx,
jim




209.143.24.7/web/

AcuSport is a wholesale distributor.

They proclaim themselves the worlds largest distributor. They have a huge complex in Bellefontaine Ohio just south of me.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 10:13:01 AM EDT

this is what I love about ar15.com, thank you all for your help !

-psywar
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 10:17:57 AM EDT
My local dealer here had(or has) one in .308 and it is a nice setup and not bad in price. I am still waiting on my 700pss in 300winmag though. Should be here soon!!

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 10:48:09 AM EDT
Actually I believe it's a Russian design, Boots just popularized it.

Be verrry careful about the "milispec" overruns. Another guy on another board was checking one out as well. The seller was telling him it was a 40X action with a mil-spec "sniper rifle" barrel for $800. Hmmmm. $800 for a military overrun (check out what US Optics is selling very well used Unertl USMC sniper scopes for...something like $2500)? Hell, a "regular" 40X goes for well over $1000, let alone a highly desireable military overrun. $800, I highly doubt it. First off Mike Rock was the main contractor for the 5R barrels for the M24. The M40 never used (to my knowledge) a 5R design. the Remington 5R barrels are no where near the quality of the Mike Rock or Boots' tubes. From everything I've heard they're waaay rougher. An M24 it's definitely not. Also consider this, look at the premium "sniper rifles" command, let alone anything mil-spec LET ALONE mil-spec overrun. The guy from the other board said his dealer was asking $800? If it were real mil-spec, it'd be more like $5000 like the M24's Remmy is offering now (remingtonle.com). I think it's a lot of marketing hype.

On the other hand, chances are it will shoot as well, if not better than a "regular" PSS. If the price is comparable, check it out thoroughly and get it. Heck, if you hold on to it, it might at least gain some collector value. Just be aware of anything a dealer or a salesman will tell you. They're out to make a buck.

As long as you like it and are happy with it is what really matters.

Later,
R

PS Years ago, Remington actually did offer a PSS with a 5R barrel through their custom shop. The quality of that barrel was very good (almost as good as the Rock/Boots...hand lapped etc) Once in a while you'll see 'em on the market. You can tell 'em because their parkerizing is a sort of green color. Those suckers SHOOT!
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 12:26:51 PM EDT
The Remington barrels are most likely made 'in house,' by Remington. I don't know of any custom barrel makers that hammer forge them, as stated on the web site.

Buy a PSS shoot the snot out of it, send it to a good gunsmith for him to true the action and put a good barrel on.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:41:42 PM EDT
Ya know, you could just email Remington, like I did before I purchased mine, and ask them. I didn't save the email or I would post it. They were over runs so to speak. They did make more than the military purchased by a few hundred. They are not seconds or in any way inferior to what they supplied the military. The 5R barrel has as stated 5 lands with a special cut angle to them that is specifically designed around the 175gr SMK bullet now being used (instead of the 168gr SMK used previously). The stock is a H&S Precision stock in dark gray with the light gray spider webbing. The barrel is 24" SS, with a matte finish, drilled and tapped for scope mounts, no provision for irons.

Mine shoots excellent and I use it in Tactical rifle matches, 200-1000 yards, either with a sling or a bipod. Bought mine for $800. The place I got mine had 4 IIRC.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 7:01:47 PM EDT

Pthfndr,

thx big time for the info. I had e-mailed Remington, but no response yet since it was this weekend and the Reed's Sport Shop sale ends this sunday.

How's your son doing ? We should have another norcal black rifle shoot soon.

cu -psywar
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 7:03:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By psywar:

Pthfndr,

thx big time for the info. I had e-mailed Remington, but no response yet since it was this weekend and the Reed's Sport Shop sale ends this sunday.

How's your son doing ? We should have another norcal black rifle shoot soon.

cu -psywar



What are they asking for those bad boys?
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 7:17:48 PM EDT
<how much???>

at Reed's Sport Shop 44th Annual Sale they are going for $799.

They had 5, by 2pm today they had 1 left.

Now I gotta figure out what scope/base/rings I need to buy. ;)

-psywar
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 8:08:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 8:10:27 PM EDT by Pthfndr]

Originally Posted By psywar:

Pthfndr,

thx big time for the info. I had e-mailed Remington, but no response yet since it was this weekend and the Reed's Sport Shop sale ends this sunday.

How's your son doing ? We should have another norcal black rifle shoot soon.

cu -psywar



Didn't you see my thread in the Meetings forum? Check it out.

My son is doing well. He's in SJ as we speak house sitting. Qualified Expert in May when his unit went for their rifle qualifications He just got back from 2 weeks at Twentynine Palms and is enjoying our "cool" weather.

Still designing games? If you get the rifle (you should)and you need a good scope let me know. I have a Leupold M1 I'll be putting up for sale soon.
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 1:27:06 PM EDT
trumpet hit it pretty good. Remington never built any M40's they are built by 2112s in the Rifle Team Equipment shop at quantico. the Primary barrel supplier used to be H&S although i hear it might be Hart now.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 10:34:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2002 3:41:26 PM EDT by Arock]
'Nother thing to ponder,
Big Green (as stated earlier) is getting in on the "tactical rifle" craze right now. Like many other big companies they don't always listen to the people that really need them. A good case in point is here....



www.remingtonle.com/rifle/40xbtac.htm
That's their 40x tactical rifle...Looks great, no? Then take a look at the twist rate. 1:14?? That might be fine for Palma's and pretty good for 168's, but more and more "tactical" shooters are rapidly abandoning the 168 and switching to the 175's for their ability to stay supersonic at distances. The 1:14 is not the optimal twist for that, but if they listened to the shooters these guns were meant for, they'd know that. Instead they listen to their bosses at Stren. Don't get me wrong, I have two PSS's and love 'em, but if they're gonna charge BIG bucks for this gun, they should at least change the twist to a 1:11 or even a 1:10.
For the kind of money that they want for it, I'd rather get a George Gardner "Rock" hands down.
Later,
Rich
PS, I do realize that the 5R milspec and the 40X I've been talking about are different models.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 11:36:09 AM EDT


PS, I do realize that the 5R milspec and the 40X I've been talking about are different models.



Rich,

is it true the 5R barrel, in general, wants to shoot 175gr. SMK vs. 168gr. SMK bullet ?

thx,
psywar
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 2:29:10 PM EDT
Well,
As far as I know the M24 (which uses the 5R barrel with a 1:11.25 twist) was found to be the best all round twist that would shoot the 173gr. mil-load and other 7.62 if no match ammo was available (battle conditions). Generally (for me) the 175's shoot better anyway. Try the Black-Hills 175 non-moly (moly in a tactical rifle messes with your cold bore shot or CBS). It's great stuff. I get it from Tommy at Georgia Precision. I'd stick with the 175's they'll shoot just as well up close as the 168's and they'll shoot well past 600, which the 168's won't. That's the reason they've become so popular.
Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:17:39 AM EDT
Correct me if I am wrong but, The M24 being offered now by Remmingtonle.com is not a true M24 due to it having a short action right? I remember seeing a real M24 at a gunshow in TN or VA and I distinctly remember it having a Long action to accommodate a possible change in caliber to 300win.

My be It's just me but $6,700 for a .308 is way too much. I can't help thinking a PSS in 300win with a M3 scope is less than 2K. Enough left over to buy a good 50BMG and a M1 16x to scope it.
Just another 2cents

JerrY
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:30:43 AM EDT

One thing I love about AR15.com is that it teaches me that no matter how much I think I know about guns, in reality I don't know dick.

Therefore, a newbie-style question:

Why does it appear that mil-spec weapons (at least "sniper" rifles) are so attractive? Are they really that much better than the "civilian" models?

Same for optics. Are military optics better than, say, a quality Leupold or Nikon scope?

Are the differences accuracy, durability, "Neato!" factor, what?

My wishlist is crammed with Remington 700's (despite the fact I don't hunt). I simply love their lines, but I'd love to add one of these mil-spec/M240/whatever whiz-bang guns if it will add value and interest to my collection.

Thanks in advance for all the help. Keep your powder dry (and the way things are going lately, your kids INSIDE behind LOCKED doors and a spread of claymore mines)!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 7:37:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 7:52:33 AM EDT by Arock]

Originally Posted By M700-308:
Correct me if I am wrong but, The M24 being offered now by Remmingtonle.com is not a true M24 due to it having a short action right? I remember seeing a real M24 at a gunshow in TN or VA and I distinctly remember it having a Long action to accommodate a possible change in caliber to 300win.

My be It's just me but $6,700 for a .308 is way too much. I can't help thinking a PSS in 300win with a M3 scope is less than 2K. Enough left over to buy a good 50BMG and a M1 16x to scope it.
Just another 2cents

JerrY



Looking at the pics of the M24 and the 40X it looks to me like the M24 uses the long action.

M24...



40X...



Pardon me while I step down to the safe, pull out a 7mm Mag M700 and have a look-see...

...and yes indeed if the pics of the M24 are to be believed it does appear to have the long action of the military M24.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 7:54:26 AM EDT
Yeah,
I'm pretty sure the civvy M24 uses the long action as well. For the money they're asking it damn well better.

As far as mil-spec being "better"? Nah, jsut the lowest bidder. The desireability is basically 'cuz "we" can't have it. I think a well made Gardner/Rice/Chandler/Hart etc. stick will shoot just as well if not better than a M24 or M40A3 (after all a bolt gun is not that complicated). It's more about teh loose nut behind the trigger.
Are mil optics better? Nah. The USMC Unertl, at the time it was first issued was great, but times change and the Mk4 series/USO ST10s are way better. Thirty years ago the thought of a synthetic stock were preposterous, but technology proved it's the way to go. Like I said a lot of it narrows down to collectability, sentimentality, etc. USO is selling well used, refurbished USMC Unertl sniper scopes for $2500. Is there better stuff out there (check snipercountry.com's reviews section etc.), hell yes (Mk4, USO ST10, Loopie variX III LR 3.5-10 M3 etc.) and I'd rather buy two Mk4's instead of one old Unertl. But if I were a collector or a former 8541 and were building a replica, I guess it'd be worth it.
Later,
Rich
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 8:09:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 8:14:56 AM EDT by Doggonit]
Thanks a lot but no thank you. I will just take the SIG/ Blaser R93 LRS2 Rifle which has the unique back and forth bolt (no turning) and which is quite nice. $2200 for the rifle alone. $3300 with Leupold VXIII Tactical scope and bipod and other goodies. This is just fine for me, thanks. I can shoot faster with this than with any Remington stuff.

www.impactguns.com/store/sig_r93_package.html

Doggonit (The SIGer strikes again)



Ok If I really have to I will settle for the nice Steyr SSG PIIK with the old (but great) Schoenauer style 5 round rotary magazine.(Think 10/22)

www.impactguns.com/store/steyr_ssgp2k.html
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:53:21 PM EDT
Problem is,
Blazer isn't combat proven, Win 70 Rem 700 are.
Shooting "fast" isn't what these guns are about anyway. That's $2200 for a mass produced factory gun. A Gardner "Rock" is $2500, hand made by one man, and will perfectly track the 175smk with the Mk4 (or LR M3) .308 cam out to 1000 yds. If something happens (and inevitably, something will, that's the nature of our toys)to that Blazer, who'd gonna work on it?
Steyr, looks cool but the rotary mag is the weak link. Good idea, just not practical for hard field use. Get some grit and mud (aka. field conditions)in a 10/22 magazine and see what happens. Nope, give me a hinged floorplate anyday. Remember, if you have to shoot or reload fast with a "sniper" rifle, you shouldn't be there anyway. That's what AR's etc. are for.
Go to snipercountry.com's duty roster and see what they (8541's, SF, SWAT) think of the Blazer. Looks purty, and I'm sure it shoots great from a bench, but until I see it in use in the field and in class "F" matches, I'm sticking with a Remmy or a Winnie.
Lter,
Rich
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 3:19:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Doggonit:
Thanks a lot but no thank you. I will just take the SIG/ Blaser R93 LRS2 Rifle which has the unique back and forth bolt (no turning) and which is quite nice.

I can shoot faster with this than with any Remington stuff.



Buy a Winchester push feed. Alter the bolt handle so that you can work it with one finger.

David Tubb has kicked everyones ass with that set up in rapid fire for years, before he designed his own rifle.
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