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Posted: 7/8/2002 12:03:35 AM EDT
I just bought a 700VS (.308) last month and didn't have time to shoot till today. For anyone who is looking for an accurate rifle, this is the one!!!!! I put a Leupold 3.5-10 M1 tactical long range scope (illuminated mil-dot reticle of course) on it and can safely say this is the most accurate firearm in my inventory.It shot 1.5MOA at 100m. With more practice I'll get it sub 1MOA.

Anyone else have experience w/this rifle that can give me tips on ammo selection?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 1:15:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 1:52:43 AM EDT by GI_Brat]
I use Hornady TAP AMAX 168 grn., getting ½ groupings @ 100 yards
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:10:49 AM EDT
Not to burst your bubble, but you SHOULD BE getting less than 1MOA...if not, send it back to Remington (for instance, Winchester guarantees their bolt guns to be sub 1 MOA). For instance, my RRA 16" carbine shot 1MOA or less the first time I shot it...with iron sites only! If I'd had a scope, it would have been less I'm sure. Therefore, you need to make sure your new gun is shooting properly, and that YOU are shooting properly.

However, this was the first time this gun has been shot, right? I hope you are following proper break-in procedures to insure maximum accuracy and longevity of the barrel.

Let us know how it turns out! That's a nice gun you have there!
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:15:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 6:17:40 AM EDT by garandman]
Tailgate is right. The VSS is capable of 1" groups (and smaller) at 100 yards.

Ammo choice will make a big difference. 147 gr. milsurp is not intended to shoot 1" groups.

If you are using milsurp, 1.5" at 100 yards is a pretty good group.

Let me add this....

Ten different VSS's will prolly require 8 different types of ammo (bullet weights, powders, primers, cases etc) to get the best out of them. Welcome to the world of handloading.





Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:35:39 AM EDT

for instance, Winchester guarantees their bolt guns to be sub 1 MOA

Pardon me while I beg to differ, but Winchester makes NO such guarantee.

I don't guess anyone cared to notice, but Eagle_19er was shooting at 100 METERS, not yards. I'm sure with more practice, break-in, and load experimentation that this gun will have no trouble getting sub-MOA groups. That's how it went with my 700VS LH.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:04:02 AM EDT
If you are not going to handload get some Fedral Gold Medal Match with 168gr Sierra bullets. If you are going to reload pick up some 175 gr Sierra Matchking Bullets and pack them with a fedral 210M primer, 44gr of varget and load them to 2.80 length. Let us know what you were shooting when you took it out.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:41:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:


I don't guess anyone cared to notice, but Eagle_19er was shooting at 100 METERS, not yards. I'm sure with more practice, break-in, and load experimentation that this gun will have no trouble getting sub-MOA groups. That's how it went with my 700VS LH.



100 yards/100 meters... a difference of 25'/8.3 yards. At that close a range the deviation from 1 MOA should be imperceptible... shooters ability aside.

Anyhow, I know the VSS and PSS are easily capable of 1 MOA or better out of the box. Could be any number of factors why it's not shooting as advertised. First I'd at least check that the scope is properly mounted and tightened down (preferably with Locktite)and that the action is properly torqued and secured to the stock (I think It's 65 lbs).

Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:34:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 9:35:45 AM EDT by schapman43]

Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
It shot 1.5MOA at 100m. With more practice I'll get it sub 1MOA.

Anyone else have experience w/this rifle that can give me tips on ammo selection?



He never said that his rifle wasnt doing its part. He simply said that he took it out, shot it, and posted his results. He is looking for others with opinions on the rifle and looking for ammo recommendations.

Check out www.ammoman.com/webstore_308.htm

Its the 7th box down, in red, 175gr BOAT TAIL HOLLOW POINT GOLD MEDAL MATCH

Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:39:45 AM EDT
Eagle_19er,
If you are interested in the load that I posted
175gr MK
44gr Varget
210 Primer
2.80 OAL

Let me know, I have a trajectory spread sheet for it. Has all the drop information you will need. All info was taken from the 700VS.

Enjoy your rifle! Now you just need the 700 Sendero in 300 win mag.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:39:52 AM EDT
I use Fedral Gold Medal Match with 168gr Sierra bullets and I'm getting 1/2" to 3/4" groups from the bench at 100yds. I agree, It's the most accurate rifle I own.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:57:01 AM EDT

100 yards/100 meters... a difference of 25'/8.3 yards. At that close a range the deviation from 1 MOA should be imperceptible... shooters ability aside.

My man, I think you're missing my point. You overlook the small details such as the range distance, so what else did you overlook? You weren't there when he was shooting, were you? You have no idea what his abilities or experience is, do you? You have no idea what type of rest he was using, do you? So why are you and everyone else so quick to tell him he has something wrong with his rifle?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 12:17:01 PM EDT
Glad you like your vss i love mine i shoot georgia arms match 168 bthp out of it they seem to do real good.

tnrifleman
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 12:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 12:36:12 PM EDT by Tailgate]

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Pardon me while I beg to differ, but Winchester makes NO such guarantee.



Well, here's a post from another website from someone who had first-hand experience with Winchester's Customer Service...he said:

"Also, if you ever have a problem, Win will take care of you. I had to send back my rifle because the safety was sticking. I also had a concern about some marks in the barrel. They fixed my safety, test fired for groups (three 5 shot groups and returned target) and replaced my stock because it had a VERY small chip under the floorplate. NO CHARGE.. Try and get that out of Remington. Oh, and they told me if it shot an average of greater than 1" at 100ayrds, they'd do what they needed to do to fix the problem. They treated me right, and send documentation for everything I asked for.

FatBoy..."



You weren't there when he was shooting, were you? You have no idea what his abilities or experience is, do you? You have no idea what type of rest he was using, do you? So why are you and everyone else so quick to tell him he has something wrong with his rifle?


I don't think ANYONE is trashing his rifle, and in fact if you read my first post I mentioned that HE SHOULD BE DOING HIS PART. The obvious indication that the shooter makes a difference. I don't think anyone is insulting Eagle_19er or his rifle...we are trying to HELP HIM if he thinks his rifle is shooting it's best at 1.5MOA.

Who knows, maybe he doesn't know what MOA stands for and his group was 1.5mm...to which all of us would respond with utter jealousy and respect!
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 12:50:02 PM EDT

Well, here's a post from another website from someone who had first-hand experience with Winchester's Customer Service...he said:

"Also, if you ever have a problem, Win will take care of you. I had to send back my rifle because the safety was sticking. I also had a concern about some marks in the barrel. They fixed my safety, test fired for groups (three 5 shot groups and returned target) and replaced my stock because it had a VERY small chip under the floorplate. NO CHARGE.. Try and get that out of Remington. Oh, and they told me if it shot an average of greater than 1" at 100ayrds, they'd do what they needed to do to fix the problem. They treated me right, and send documentation for everything I asked for.

FatBoy..."


Again, I beg to differ. Winchester/USRA makes NO such guarantee. Having briefly owned a Model 70 that was bought back by USRA, I know. I can also tell you that their factory service representatives will sell you a line of bull. What you posted was just a statement by an individual customer service representative. I can tell you from my experience that they'll make a lot of promises if there's a chance that they'll have to refund your money. However, USRA does NOT offer any kind of written guarantee as to accuracy. Winchester/USRA made me a Remington fan.


I don't think ANYONE is trashing his rifle, and in fact if you read my first post I mentioned that HE SHOULD BE DOING HIS PART.

Uh, okay. Didn't you post this?

Not to burst your bubble, but you SHOULD BE getting less than 1MOA...if not, send it back to Remington


And then another poster offered this:

Could be any number of factors why it's not shooting as advertised.

Yeah, I guess you guys weren't trying to psychoanalyze his rifle at all.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:35:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 5:40:51 PM EDT by JasonF]

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:



100 yards/100 meters... a difference of 25'/8.3 yards. At that close a range the deviation from 1 MOA should be imperceptible... shooters ability aside.




My man, I think you're missing my point. You overlook the small details such as the range distance, so what else did you overlook?



Not precisely. As you stated; the poster was gauging distance in meters rather than yards; as if it had a significant bearing on what other readers here had to say. If your observation were accurate, and we go by the stated norm of 1.00 MOA (or better) for the VS, then the shooter should be at least be getting 1.08 MOA, not 1.5 MOA... a difference of .42. My point is that at 100 meters or yards the deviation is still pretty much the same.



You weren't there when he was shooting, were you?



No, none of us here were; including you. Lacking details and follow-ups a person can only go by what they read. Myself, I'm an anal-obsessive detail freak. Such is the nature of the Internet. Sometimes (more often than not) you have to take your best stab at it. Might not be the correct answer (Lord I try ) but where else can you get a wealth of free opinions and advice?



You have no idea what his abilities or experience is, do you? You have no idea what type of rest he was using, do you? So why are you and everyone else so quick to tell him he has something wrong with his rifle?



I wasn't implicitly suggesting that something was wrong with the rifle... merely offering advice as to one possible solution to one of three possible areas (shooter, ammo, firearm).

My advice was posted as an answer to other alternatives. Check the simple quick and easy stuff that requires little effort, money or time first. It's like troubleshooting anything mechanical... Car won't start? Well is there gas in it?

But anyhow, unless the poster gives more details as you described, myself and others can only speculate as to where the problem might lie.

Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:11:30 PM EDT

Not precisely. As you stated; the poster was gauging distance in meters rather than yards; as if it had a significant bearing on what other readers here had to say. If your observation were accurate, and we go by the stated norm of 1.00 MOA (or better) for the VS, then the shooter should be at least be getting 1.08 MOA, not 1.5 MOA... a difference of .42. My point is that at 100 meters or yards the deviation is still pretty much the same.

Again, you have completely missed the point of my post. You missed one small detail and you may have missed others. You and several others are quick to jump to conclusions that Eagle_19er is having problems without getting all of the facts or paying attention to all of the information posted.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:03:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Not precisely. As you stated; the poster was gauging distance in meters rather than yards; as if it had a significant bearing on what other readers here had to say. If your observation were accurate, and we go by the stated norm of 1.00 MOA (or better) for the VS, then the shooter should be at least be getting 1.08 MOA, not 1.5 MOA... a difference of .42. My point is that at 100 meters or yards the deviation is still pretty much the same.



Again, you have completely missed the point of my post. You missed one small detail and you may have missed others. You and several others are quick to jump to conclusions that Eagle_19er is having problems without getting all of the facts or paying attention to all of the information posted.



OK, I have no idea WTF you're trying to point out. All other considerations aside; be it human rifle or ammo, I still maintain that your meter/yard observation has no validity (at least not at 100 y/m). If you have a point to make I'd wish you'd share it rather than the subterfuge. If I'm wrong about this I'll gladly accept the correction and possibly be better off for it.

If the correct answer is "practice" "load experimentation" and "break in" I assume that to be a given.

Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:08:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 7:09:23 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
Go back and read things carefully. schapman43 came the closest to getting it. You seem to think the original poster was out at an official high power range, wind meter set up, chronograph in place, really making a show of it. In reality he went to the range for some informal target work. Why do you automatically "assume" he's having problems? Be specific. You gloss past the minor details and jump to conclusions.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:30:20 PM EDT
Lots of bickering going on here. Eagle 19er, just get that weapon broken in and it WILL settle down & tighten your groups just fine. I shoot a 300WM in a 700PSS. Took it a while to break in then fine tuned in some handloads. My 20 year old son shot a 3/8 " 5 shot group @ 100 yards with it. Sure wish I could see that well. But hey time marches on and not seeing to well in older age sure beats the alternative. Take care of that weapon & it will do just fine.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:38:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Go back and read things carefully. schapman43 came the closest to getting it. You seem to think the original poster was out at an official high power range, wind meter set up, chronograph in place, really making a show of it. In reality he went to the range for some informal target work. Why do you automatically "assume" he's having problems? Be specific. You gloss past the minor details and jump to conclusions.



Your response has nothing to do with what I posted. You can do better than this.

Again, if there are specific issues to be addressed why not enlighten us and explain your reasoning regarding the original posters question? Guessing games aren't something that I'm particularly fond of.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:49:12 PM EDT

Your response has nothing to do with what I posted. You can do better than this.

Again, if there are specific issues to be addressed why not enlighten us and explain your reasoning regarding the original posters question? Guessing games aren't something that I'm particularly fond of.


Why do you think he's having problems? Be specific.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:33:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
I just bought a 700VS (.308) last month and didn't have time to shoot till today. For anyone who is looking for an accurate rifle, this is the one!!!!! I put a Leupold 3.5-10 M1 tactical long range scope (illuminated mil-dot reticle of course) on it and can safely say this is the most accurate firearm in my inventory.It shot 1.5MOA at 100m. With more practice I'll get it sub 1MOA.

Anyone else have experience w/this rifle that can give me tips on ammo selection?


So far, the Federal Gold Medal Match 168-gr. BTHP is the one that groups the best in mine.
I got about the same size groups or better (lucky) on my first trip to the 100-yd. line.
It IS the most accurate gun I've ever owned. Now, I need to learn how to shoot better! I'm happy for you that you got a good/accurate rifle.

Link Posted: 7/9/2002 8:07:23 AM EDT
Eagle_19er
Congrats on your new toy. You're gonna love it! If you do think the accuracy is off (which it doesn't sound like it) send it to a smith instead of sending it back to Rem. Their accuracy standard for all their bolt guns is 1.5" at 100yds.
Like all the guys are getting at, good ammo is the key. Try the Black-Hills fodder. Mine likes the 175 and the 168 equally well, and it's cheaper than Fed GM.
Most importantly have fun and practice alot!!
you might want to check out snipercountry.com. There's a ton of long range info there and it's a great bunch of guys.
Later,
R
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