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Posted: 7/6/2002 5:09:36 PM EDT
And a good 10X scope, what kind of groups should you expect at 500 meters on paper???
Which rifles should be able to hold under 5" groups???
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:12:57 PM EDT
ar10,m1a,dsa fal bida,bid, thats all folks
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:21:33 PM EDT
Is everyone of the opinion that semi-auto's are as good as "bolts" or is the general feeling that for long range "bolts" are still better??
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jim58:
Is everyone of the opinion that semi-auto's are as good as "bolts" or is the general feeling that for long range "bolts" are still better??



Depends on the bolt action rifle and the semi-auto rifle. Generally bolt actions will outperform the semi-auto in accuracy. My AR-10T will outperform many bolt action rifles but then it cost almost 2 grand [1750ish]. Bolt action rifles are inherently more accurate as they can employ tighter tolerances and still function properly.

My AR-10T shoots 1/2 to 3/4 MOA all day with good ammo and me behind the stock off of a bench. I consider this accuracy 'outstanding' for a semi-auto. I would consider it 'very good' for a bolt gun, and 'good' for a bolt gun in the same price range.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 2:41:41 AM EDT
Thanks for the info...I was thinking finding an accurate semi-auto was harded than finding an accurate "bolt action". Since my resources are limited my next rifle will be a bolt ;-).

Alot of it must be "hit or miss" because I was at the range with a guy who just spent $400 on a new barrel and at 200 meters the groups were only about 2-3 inches.

I've only seen this once, but that's because I don't "live" at the range but one guy was holding a 2-3 inch group at 500 meters. He had some special built rifle with like a 2-3 oz trigger. He mentioned the group would have been smaller if not for the slight breeze that day ;-)

I guess if you realy want accuracy it's going to be expensive unless you just get lucky enough to find an accurate "low end" rifle.
I have had good luck with Savage before and may go that route. Savage customer service was good too.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 2:55:05 AM EDT
Have you looked at the Remington 700VS? Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a semi-autos for accuracy (I have a M1A & a Eagle Arms AR10). The 700VS is middle of the road as far as pricing and above average in accuracy...IMHO
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:18:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:


My AR-10T shoots 1/2 to 3/4 MOA all day with good ammo and me behind the stock off of a bench.



There seems to be a growing trend among militaries to use semi's for medium range sniper rifles.

It is rumored that two of our significant allies have selected and placed orders for the AR-10(T). Now they selected the rifle in semi-auto and the prime use I can think of would be a little sniper work. (Although I did not ask the specific use.)

Seems to me that .5 - .75 MOA would be adequate for a little light sniper work.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 7:01:50 AM EDT
Remington sounds like a good option too. Are there any differences in manufacturing that would make one more consistently accurate than the other??

With "semi-autos" this guy at the range had the opinion that the "first" shot will almost always be a "flyer".
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 7:19:06 AM EDT
The weapon is only part of the equation. You also have to consider the quality of the scope and its mounting system, the type of ammunition used, the support system (bag, rest, bipod, nothing), and the shooters ability.

A big bucks, big name sws is useless if the shooter can't hit a barn with it at 100 yards.

And then there are shooters that are just so good, they could nail you at 500 yards with a Mini 30 with a bent barrel.

Lots of variables to consider.

Moe
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 7:24:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jim58:
Remington sounds like a good option too. Are there any differences in manufacturing that would make one more consistently accurate than the other??

With "semi-autos" this guy at the range had the opinion that the "first" shot will almost always be a "flyer".



I would offer that my semi (Eagle AR10) always gets the first round within 1 inch at 100 yds... Methinks the "guy at the range" has been exposed to a lot of "spray and pray" folks...
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 8:00:55 AM EDT
I'm a big fan of the FAL. Its my personal favorite in 308. However, For accuracy go with a bolt from Remington, Winchester, or Savage and save yourself a lot of money.

Most semi autos can be made very accurate if you want to spend the money. The bolts will do it reliably for a lot less.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 1:13:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2002 1:19:50 PM EDT by GI_Brat]

Originally Posted By mjmensale:
The weapon is only part of the equation. You also have to consider the quality of the scope and its mounting system, the type of ammunition used, the support system (bag, rest, bipod, nothing), and the shooters ability.

A big bucks, big name sws is useless if the shooter can't hit a barn with it at 100 yards.

And then there are shooters that are just so good, they could nail you at 500 yards with a Mini 30 with a bent barrel.

Lots of variables to consider.

Moe



VERY TRUE !.....practice, practice & more practice is a major requirement.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 2:13:17 PM EDT
Look into the Savage Varminter in .308. It should run you about $700 but has a Choate sniper stock and Sharp Shooter trigger. Ill bet that sucker will shoot 5" groups at 500...RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Otherwise get a Rem 700. Any thing else will need some work to get you 1 MOA @500 meters. A tricked out AR10 or M1A should get you there but you talking BIG$$$$. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 4:45:15 PM EDT
Thanks Frank!
Now we are talking :-)...
I think I found my "answer" :-)
Of course it was part my problem for such a "vague" question but you hit the "nail on the head!!"
Also thanks to eveyone else for all the great info!!!
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