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Posted: 7/3/2002 7:21:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2002 7:25:58 PM EDT by TxDoc]
How do these two compare in stopping power, penetration, recoil, availability of ammo and reloading componets? And, any other info or comments you may want to include?
Thanks

btw-I found this http://www.realguns.com/archives/coltvssig.htm
and about 2/3 of the way down, there is some info that I wanted to share.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 7:27:15 PM EDT
I will say that the .40 is more available as loaded ammo. There is a greater supply of reloading supplies for the .40. The whole stopping power thing can be argued for hours, IMO most of the top grade pistol calibers are about the same with quality ammo.


I have a couple of .40 Glocks and have been thinking of getting a .357 SIG barrel to drop in for comparison sakes. If you get the .40 you can swap around to the .357 SIG without to much trouble.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 7:29:31 PM EDT
I had both, Glock 22 in .40SW and Glock 32C in .357 sig. The .357 sig is a cannon compared to the .40. There isn't that much more recoil but its a different kind of recoil, its much quicker(sharper). The .357sig ammo is in the same price range as most .40 ammo, but it can be hard to find in smaller shops. I loved the 32C but with it ported it was extremely loud. I sold it and bought an Acog, but I will buy another Glock32 but not ported. Also, its very accurate, even more so than the .40.

Bill3508
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 7:55:25 PM EDT
The 357 would be a PITB to reload due to it's necked down case. Instead of the 40's carbide dies, the 357 cases have to be lubed!

Handgun ammo works by punching holes, not "shock" from high velocity. The 40 produces a bigger hole in the target than the .355" 357 Sig bullet.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 8:01:57 PM EDT
I've never owned or shot either, but I'm sure one is better than the other....

Or not.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 8:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2002 8:11:48 PM EDT by TxDoc]

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
The 357 would be a PITB to reload due to it's necked down case. Instead of the 40's carbide dies, the 357 cases have to be lubed!

Handgun ammo works by punching holes, not "shock" from high velocity. The 40 produces a bigger hole in the target than the .355" 357 Sig bullet.



A .44 magnum will still make a larger hole, but many times passes thru without stopping and not dumping all of its energy in the body. That is one reason I like the .357 magnum. Since Energy=mass x Velocity squared, the relatively small (125 grain JHP) carries a lot of engergy AND when able to stop within the body and transfer all of its energy. Or if it hits bone, can cause secondary projectiles.

I would like the most engergy genrerated and deposited, not lost. But, I would like to be able to find brass, dies, reloading info, etc., and be able to reload and practice.

I noticed the new Springfield Armory XD comes in a 4 inch, a 4 inch ported and a 5 inch. I guess the ported is a trade off on less recoil, but louder report. I was leaning toward the 5 inch, even before I read that. But, the ported comment made me lean that way even more.

Thanks for the replies.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 8:10:48 PM EDT
I own a 229 Sig in 357 Sig and have a 40 barrel. Bill is right the 357 Sig rnd. has a much sharper recoil. The 357 Sig was designed to have the same performance as the 357 mag 125 grain rnd in an auto. The power curves are practically the same. Energy and power between the different offerings is between 357 mag and a "hot" 10mm.

In the 40s favor is availability. I find 40 anit-climatic after shooting 357 Sig. However thats a preference thing. You could always buy a 40 or 357 sig and buy the other barrel. Mags and everything work between the two perfectly.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 8:12:16 PM EDT
Where do you buy OEM barrels?

Do they require fitting?
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 8:18:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2002 8:19:47 PM EDT by NODDAH]
I dont know if you were asking me.

Original manufactured 357 Sig barrels are made by both Sig and Glock. I have even seen H&K make barrels for the 357 Sig.

As of 6 months ago I saw that Rguns had some for the Glock. However I dont know why anyone just couldnt order one.


Oh by the way they just drop-in...
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 9:03:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I've never owned or shot either, but I'm sure one is better than the other....

Or not.



Well, you're a big help then!
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 9:11:21 PM EDT
TxDoc, I believe one PD in a major city in Texas went with the 357 Sig, maybe Dallas? I'm sure there's info on the web regarding why they went with the 357.

And there's at least 3 aftermarket barrel manufactures making drop-in replacement/conversion barrels for Glocks. You can get 357 Sig barrels for the Glock 22 and 23, but if it's an older Glock 23 you may be out of luck because 357 requires the larger slide rails (according to Glock, to be safe). There's lots of info about these conversions on Glocktalk.com.

I believe you can also use .40 mags for .357, but some have experienced feeding problems, so it's probably better to just get the .357 mags and be done with it.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 9:27:33 PM EDT
On my 229, I bought it in .40 and bought a SIG barrel in .357 SIG later. I was actually disapointed in the .357 SIG recoil, I expected it to be as sharp as the revolvers.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 9:48:42 PM EDT
Yeah, the .357 SIG was shown to have about equal energy to .357 Magnum. Similar bullets, similar velocity.

.40SW uses somewhat heavier bullets and has somewhat less speed.

Most cartridge mfrs. list .40 as having somewhat less energy than .357 SIG.

As far as handgun ammunition is concerned, I wouldn't worry about the differences between 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, and .45. The rule of thumb is that they are ALL underpowered. They are handguns after all. The only thing to worry about is whether you want light and fast, or heavy and slow. But that's a whole different can of worms.

Then of course you have to pick a bullet design.

FYI, the "bullets stopping in the body are better than bullets that pass through" thing is wrong.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 10:16:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By b0ne:
FYI, the "bullets stopping in the body are better than bullets that pass through" thing is wrong.



Yet another "can of worms"

Rick
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 11:00:43 PM EDT
Based on what I've shot, the .357Sig is a much more accurate rd. There's no question that the 125gr HP @ 1,100f/p/s or better has been proven to be the best "one shot stopper" by study after study. My next semi will probably be a Glock 32. Damn fine rd, IMO.

OTOH, a .40S&W is a solution in search of a problem, accuracy is average 99% of the time. IIRC, UMC now makes .357Sig ammo so shooting won't bust you if you don't reload.

My .o2
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 11:12:23 PM EDT
Then 124gr 9mm at 1,120fps should be just great!

I can hear them now, the .45 people are coming over to "discuss" things with me...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 2:30:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxDoc:
How do these two compare
snip
www.realguns.com/archives/coltvssig.htm
snip


The 357 Sig is rated at 40,000 psi max and the 40 s&w is rated at 35,000 psi. The Sig is a magnum round and is more versatile as it starts out smaller and slower and can reach near rifle velocities out of a 4 inch barrel.

I believe the 9mm / 357mag / 357 Sig / 38 / 40 / 41 / 45 / ad infinitum will all suffice if used properly, but none are a "magic bullet". For most of us, beyond starting with a reliable and properly maintained sidearm, there is no substitute for practice and training. If any of these won't do you probable need a long arm.


Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
The 357 would be a PITB to reload due to it's necked down case. Instead of the 40's carbide dies, the 357 cases have to be lubed! snip


The secret is Hornady spray lube ( Dillon may be the same). Follow instructions. Spray the sizer die. I clean the cases and then I load 50 top side up into a plastic ammo holder. I spray one quick spray per side and turn. Now they are ready to de cap / size and reload even in a progressive. The cost appears to be less than a penny per round, and maybe closer to 1/4 cent as I am still on my first $8 bottle.

My 2 cents.



Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:06:09 AM EDT
Don't you have to change the recoil spring assembly as well as the Barrel to do the caliber convertion correctly????
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goad:


Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
The 357 would be a PITB to reload due to it's necked down case. Instead of the 40's carbide dies, the 357 cases have to be lubed! snip


The secret is Hornady spray lube ( Dillon may be the same). Follow instructions. Spray the sizer die. I clean the cases and then I load 50 top side up into a plastic ammo holder. I spray one quick spray per side and turn. Now they are ready to de cap / size and reload even in a progressive. The cost appears to be less than a penny per round, and maybe closer to 1/4 cent as I am still on my first $8 bottle.

My 2 cents.






I know. I use Dillon spray on .223 cases and it works well. It just seems like the long way around for pistol ammo where you have a choice. The cases have to be sprayed and then individually wiped clean after loading. This is still alot of extra work when you sit down to load 500 rounds for tomorrow's practice session. If you have to lube, you're right, spray's the way to go.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:22:46 AM EDT
I gave up on cleaning the lube off of reloads a long time ago.

We've shot thousands of round with no problems.

I imagine, however if you were in a sandy environment it wouldn't work too good.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:23:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxDoc:


A .44 magnum will still make a larger hole, but many times passes thru without stopping and not dumping all of its energy in the body. That is one reason I like the .357 magnum. Since Energy=mass x Velocity squared, the relatively small (125 grain JHP) carries a lot of engergy AND when able to stop within the body and transfer all of its energy. Or if it hits bone, can cause secondary projectiles.

I would like the most engergy genrerated and deposited, not lost. But, I would like to be able to find brass, dies, reloading info, etc., and be able to reload and practice.

I noticed the new Springfield Armory XD comes in a 4 inch, a 4 inch ported and a 5 inch. I guess the ported is a trade off on less recoil, but louder report. I was leaning toward the 5 inch, even before I read that. But, the ported comment made me lean that way even more.



I guess the big, slow bullet approach makes the most sense to me. I've been looking at the Springfield XD and I'm a 1911 guy! It's a really neat gun. Let us know how you like it.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 6:42:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:13:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 5:23:38 AM EDT by KurtsKustom]
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:40:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Don't you have to change the recoil spring assembly as well as the Barrel to do the caliber convertion correctly????


The short answer is no.

The long answer is you have the freedom to play around with your personal property if you like. We should pause on this Fourth of July to be thankful for this small freedom. You can be imprisoned for 10 years if you play around with your newer magazines, however. Damn gun control wackos!
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:54:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Based on what I've shot, the .357Sig is a much more accurate rd. There's no question that the 125gr HP @ 1,100f/p/s or better has been proven to be the best "one shot stopper" by study after study. My next semi will probably be a Glock 32. Damn fine rd, IMO.





I don't know what watered down 357SIG rounds you are talking about, but the Hornady 140 grain 357SIG rounds are rated at 1250fps, and the 125 grain ones at 1400 fps.

The one big advantage 357 SIG has over 9mm is that it can actually use those heavy bullets in the 9mm caliber. Seeing how a 9mm with a 147gr is right around subsonic (~1000fps) and the SIG gets it there at 1250fps, it makes those heavier loads much more useful.....
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:01:05 AM EDT
The first law enforcement agency to adopt the .357 Sig was the Texas Department of Public Safety. They did this after the troopers were dissatisfied with the performance of their .45s and 9mms. They wanted an auto round that duplicated the 125 grain JHP .357 magnum. From what I've read they are extremely happy with this round. Some troopers have reported being able to make hits on running coyotes at 100 yards due to this rounds flat trajectory.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:26:26 AM EDT
I don't shoot a .40 S&W but my neighbor does, He has 2 Glocks, one personal, one issued. He's an FBI agent & ex SF (12 yrs) officer. He has been to autopsies where they pulled 40 S&W Federal Hydroshocks out of the corpse. They worked perfectly and mushroomed out the same. Yet he longs for a .45. He stated " The bigger the hole , the harder they squirt". And " A 9mm is merely a .45 set on stun" .
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:09:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuikSilver:
I don't know what watered down 357SIG rounds you are talking about, but the Hornady 140 grain 357SIG rounds are rated at 1250fps, and the 125 grain ones at 1400 fps.



Actually, I was just guessing at the velocity. Clearly you are much more precise & correct.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 1:02:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By QuikSilver:
I don't know what watered down 357SIG rounds you are talking about, but the Hornady 140 grain 357SIG rounds are rated at 1250fps, and the 125 grain ones at 1400 fps.



Actually, I was just guessing at the velocity. Clearly you are much more precise & correct.




Its cool Bob, I just didn't want someone to get the wrong idea about the 357sig. A 125 gr slug from a 9mm will do 1100 fps all day long and you can get up to about 1250 with some +P+ 9mm rounds. But they are expensive and factory loaded standard 357 sig rounds even from Blazer/CCI which are cheap target rounds are around $10 a box and about 1350fps vs a $25 box of Corbon specialty +P+ 9mm ammo for almost the same velocity.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 1:42:55 PM EDT
TX DPS selected the .357SIG primarily for the penetration aspects. The 357SIG performed best in penetration tests of auto glass, car doors, etc...
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 3:08:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
" A 9mm is merely a .45 set on stun" .



Damn, I learned a new saying today! Thanks snipe.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 4:29:08 PM EDT
I've owned several Glock 9mm's and .40's, then bought one in .357 Sig...

DEFINATELY a hot round...
EASILY runs circles around a .40...
Not "nasty" to shoot, but more of a sharp, violent recoil...


I remember seeing ballistic charts for a few handgun calibers, and the .357 Sig was the hottest (Most FtLbs energy) round on the chart...

It was even more powerfull than the 10mm & .45 auto...

If I remember correctly, they were pushing 125grain bullets at 1450 fps...

The sig round was basically designed to duplicate the .357 magnum round, but in a rimless auto case...

The difference between ".40 S&W to .357sig" is the same difference as ".38 special to .357magnum"...
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:50:17 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies and insights. I am definitely leaning toward the 357Sig. I am used to the 357 Mag with a MagNaPorted 2.5" barrel. So, the blast and subsequent fireball is okay ;-).
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:55:32 PM EDT
I remember reading a Massad Ayoob (yeah, i know )article on a shootout. The first officer was trying to shoot the guy through a truck (semi?) door with a .45 and it wasn't penetrating enough or something, then backup arrives with a .357 sig and finally ends up killing the bag guy through the truck door. I know this is about .40 v .357 sig, but its a cool story
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