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Posted: 6/30/2002 8:57:17 PM EDT
I was thinking to purchase a mossberg or remington 870 in a stainless marine version to keep on the boat. It will probably be exposed to salt water on a daily basis, because nothing is waterproof. Is it going to be damaged beyond use if it comes in contact with this water, or will it still work?
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 9:32:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2002 9:32:57 PM EDT by Am-O-Tramp]
Your concerns can be managed by using a product called CorrosionX.

It says on the bottle that Salt water deposits will not occur where Corrosionx is applied and kept active, it also states that it can revive gear EVEN AFTER SALTWATER IMMERSION.

www.corrosionx.com
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:06:56 PM EDT
Without any protection, you are gonna get heavy rust pitting on exposed surfaces. Inoperable? Maybe if it gets inside and has time to sit for a long time but overall not too likely.

Keving67
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:25:03 PM EDT
As any swabbie can tell you, salt water is hell on metal. As the others suggest, try some specifically designed products for salt water spray.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:09:00 AM EDT
To dispel a myth, stainless steel is NOT rustproof. Most 400 series stainless steels will go not more than 144 to 196 hours of ASTM B-117 Neutral Salt Fog corrosion testing before the appearance of red rust. 300 series are more resistant, but even they top off around 500 to 1000 hours depending on the alloy and degree of passivation of the surface.

That said, plain blued carbon steel will rust in 6 to 24 hours in ASTM B-117.

Moral: Yes, your SS marine shotgun will provide longer-lived service in a saltwater marine / littoral environment. Do use the CorrosionX material for additional protection. When on the water, I would recommend a weekly disassembly and hot soapy freshwater rinse of all parts, with reapplication of the CorrosionX. Even with the best of care, don't be surprised to find some red rust on it at some point. Stainless steel firearms use parts made from several different series of stainless steels to avoid the galling that occurs when two stainless parts of the same alloy make repeated rubbing contact. Ask any pipefitter experienced with fitting threaded SS pipe or SS bolts in SS pipe flanges. The use of the proper alloys in different series for mating firearms parts with movement avoids the galling issue. Thus, some of the parts of your shotgun may be more prone to red rust that others.

Either the Rem or the Mossy will do fine. Unless the Ithaca 37 is available in SS (don't know), my personal preference lies with those two as opposed to the Win.

Noah

Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:11:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 8:14:26 AM EDT by Hk45USP]
Noah,,,,I highly disagree with you and your suggestion of using "Hot soapy water" on firearms. Would you wash out the inside of you vehicle's engine with water too???? NO.

That's like some dumb Marine corps DI's that have made the "boots" take their M-16's in the showers with them for cleaning. Uterly ridiculous!

Or the old claim that one could take a "SIG" or Glock in the dishwasher. Guns are guns, not "dishes" for cryn out loud.

Use a petroleum based product to DISPEL water. Some good products to use on the Remington Marine Magnum shotgun would be "RIG" grease, which can be applied lightly with a finger. CorrosionX as others have mentioned works great too.

Or...

Use "Breakfree Collector", which is a preservative only product, which has been tested by the military for salt water conditions. Stuff works great in the ocean. I use it on my boat in the pacific ocean, for all my long guns. Never once experienced rust.

Lastly, if one is really concerned about the finish, check out Robar's "NP3" finish. It tougher than any hard chroming job and is virtually impervious to salt water. I have the finish on two semi auto's I own and have gone completely in the salt water drink with the guns. I've neglected the guns for days while on the water and never had the gun's finish rust or blemish. Great finish, yet expensive. But it's worth every penny.

Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:25:25 PM EDT
HKUSP45 Check out an auto machine shop. They will have a hot tank. Water filled caustic solution used to clean cast iron engine blocks.Cast iron will rust faster than anything.Also, when they bore cylinders, soapy water is the only thing you should use to clean them. Nothing else removes the tiny metal bits leftover as well as soapy water. Of course, you must oil the pats immediately after removing them from the water.I have done this many times personally.
No harm no foul to the parts.
BP
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:43:26 PM EDT
I hate to sound ignorant but I've never heard of a mossberg or remington in stainless. I thought the marine shotgun was a hard chrome finish.

Does anyone have a pic or know where I can look to see a stainless shotgun?

Just curious.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:56:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 6:57:37 PM EDT by SDavid]
NightHawk- I though marine shotguns were stainless too so I looked it up on the Remington website www.remington.com and found this: www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870MRMAG.HTM. The firearm is Electroless nickel plating.

edited to add that I didn't find anything for Mossberg
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:48:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NightHawk:
I hate to sound ignorant but I've never heard of a mossberg or remington in stainless. I thought the marine shotgun was a hard chrome finish.

Does anyone have a pic or know where I can look to see a stainless shotgun?

Just curious.


Sorry, I meant nickel
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 12:33:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
Noah,,,,I highly disagree with you and your suggestion of using "Hot soapy water" on firearms. ...



Hot soapy water is used for various reasons on guns. Works great for guns that just used corrosive ammo. Good afetr a good bead blast, etc. Works well on suppressors, too!

The real key is to get the firearm completely dried and oiled.

mark
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 12:42:03 AM EDT
Can you store it in one of those 6" diameter PVC deals with caps on both ends? Or in one of those surplus sonobuoy containers?
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 12:50:55 AM EDT
HK45USP, I have use hot water and soap for several years to clean my firearms and absolutely no negative affects what so ever. Most of the water evaporates, what dose not I dry with a towel then use CLP. That's about the only way to clean a flintlock when black powder is used.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:20:33 PM EDT
To those that mentioned water and guns....

I guess to each his own. I just can't figure out why with today's availability of so many good solvents, why anyone would use water. I don't believe that guns are made out of cast iron, like some engines are. Either way, I guess whatever works for you, stay with it then.

I know that my cast iron skillets are washed with soapy water and don't rust. But a gun is a gun. I don't trust my life to have a cast iron skillet save me either.

I use a good nitro type solvent like Hoppes #9 or I'll use Shooter choice bore cleaner. Then I strip all the liquid and residual dirt/carbon with a goon "Electronic cleaner" spray made by CRC. They make good carb and break cleaners too, but the Electronic parts cleaner leaves a ultimate dry finish and washes away all the crud.

It's almost like gun scubber, but I feel it's leave a better result and it's about 1/3 less in price than gun scrubber.

Then I'll reoil the gun etc...

I stay away from water like the plague.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 5:07:34 PM EDT
Electroless Nickel kinda changes things. EN is a chemically-deposited nickel plating that uses a process without electrolysis to deposit a layer of a metallic nickel alloy to a substrate. EN on carbon steel will do anywhere between 96 to just under 300 hours at typical thicknesses when tested in ASTM B-117. Not as robust as SS, but a decent finish as long as you DO NOT let it come in contact with strong acids (battery acid, etc.) and strong alkalis (like oven cleaner). The labels on commercial cleaning preparations for EN-plated firearms should read "safe for plated parts, or safe for nickel plating" or the like. An EN finish will protect a carbon steel substrate in a marine/littoral environment, but not as well as SS. I would be sure to clean it a couple times a week to maybe every two days in extra humid conditions.

HK45USP: Your point about water and firearms is well taken, and the two generally do not mix. However, there are some things that are more readily soluble in hot soapy water, and sodium chloride (salt) is one of them. There is nothing wrong with disassembling a firearm and washing it in a hot detergent bath followed by a hot water rinse, and a thorough oiling (as you correctly point out, and as I neglected to mention in my original post. Footnote: Back in '72 I dutifully took my M16A1 for a shower many a time. Semper Fi.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 6:09:06 PM EDT
I am considering the same thing, a marine shotgun. I have pretty much decided on the Reminton Marine Magnum...I like 870s. I can't find a Stainless pump or auto. Do they exist, it does sound like SS is more durable than nickel.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 1:17:19 AM EDT

Many of the ultrasonic clenaers use an H2O based system... I have heard some use oil. Soapy water is cheap and effective as long as you dry and oil the gun well.

mark
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:31:31 AM EDT
Noah,

Thanks for the info...I guess I learn something everyday. I've heard of water and guns, but I still "shrug" at the thought.

Hey, I'm open to whatever works. Change is a good thing.

Take care.
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