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Posted: 6/29/2002 10:56:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2002 11:47:04 AM EDT by NewGuy]
I was breaking in my new rifle the other day and had all the supplies on hand to clean the barrel between shots. Anyway I had a brain fart and used the JB Bore Cleaner on a dry barrel. I did not run a wet patch first, instead I ran the wet patch after, followed by dry patches.

Before I began the breakin process, I fired two 3 shot groups. The first group was about 3/4 MOA, and the second was all in the same hole. I would guess center to center must have been .30 MOA at 100yds. Both 3 shot groups had no flyers.

So what do I go and do? I run one patch of JB Bore Paste first, followed by Hoppes#9.

After that my groups never got below 1 MOA. Not realizing what I had done, I continued the break in process and ran the JB on a dry barrel about 5 more times.

Will running JB on a dry barrel damage it? and did I do it enough to do so? I really hope I didn't screw up.

FWIW, the ammo was Winchester .308, 150gr Power Points. What has me concerned is my first two 3 shot groups were the best before I went and ran JB on a dry barrel.

Thanks
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 10:59:55 AM EDT
Its a Lothar Walther barrel, if that makes any difference.

Thanks
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 2:52:40 PM EDT
It's fine...you didn't do any damage.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 8:24:35 PM EDT
JB is too fine and mild an abrasive to trash your barrel, especially used only 6 times.

I don't use JB when breaking in a barrel. I use Shooter's Choice first to get the powder fouling out, then Sweet's to get the copper. Has always worked great for me. I only use JB on barrels that have for some reason gotten really dirty.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 12:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sparky315:
JB is too fine and mild an abrasive to trash your barrel, especially used only 6 times.




I disagree. JB and all the other dirt based abrasive cleaners (read the ingredients) are very abrasize and should only be used on severly rusted, pitted or fouled brls.

When you use JB you are running rocks and sand through your brl, rounding off lands and grooves in the process.

That is why your 3/4MOA rifle is now a 1.25MOA rifle.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 12:38:09 AM EDT
Oh and I thought this was gonna be a joke about some noob mistaking JB weld for Bore Paste! LOL
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:23:00 AM EDT
First, thanks for the responses.

AR15Fan, I hope you are exagerating, because I have this really sick feeling in my stomach right now.

I am also really pissed that ARMALITE recomends this process between rounds during break in. And their not just talking about one stroke with a patch either, they recomend 20 strokes!!!!! WTF over?
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 8:09:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NewGuy:
I am also really pissed that ARMALITE recomends this process between rounds during break in.



You f-ck up and you are pissed at ArmaLite. I agree with AR15fan. I cannot understand why you would run dirt down a brand new barrel. All abrasive cleaners are changing the internal dimensions of your barrel. I understand many mfg recommend this procedure, but I have never seen statistical evidence that this procedure works.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 8:38:36 AM EDT
BAsed off the responses here, I am obviously not going to use JB any more.

I understand that there is no evidence that the procedure Armalite recommends works, but is there anything that proves it damages the barrel and makes it worse with extensive use? (other than the McMillan thread).

The info right on the JB can states that it will not damage the barrel in any way. I am not advocating the use of JB.

I am simply inquiring if I had damaged my barrel with what I did. I did do it about 6 times using the method ARMALITE recommended 20 passes back and forth with the same patch using a bore guide.

I am obviously sick to my stomach now.

When I say that I couldn't get it below 1 MOA after what I did. I ment that my 3 shot group looked like two holes touching with one flyer bringing it to 1 MOA. Before there were no flyers ranging from 3/4 MOA to .30 MOA. Keep in mind these were the first shots of the day, out of a new barrel

Thanks[>(]
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 9:27:59 AM EDT
And Hell Yeah, I am pissed at Armalite. If everything mentioned above is true, why would they purposely tell you to destroy your new barrel??? Armalite Barrel Sales?

I am hoping that since I ran it down the dry barrel that the carbon and copper tooke the brunt of the JB bore paste.

Although when I was cleaning it at home (before this post) I did run a wet patch through first followed by one patch of JB.

God I hate this feeling!!!!
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:27:38 AM EDT
You have done NOTHING detrimental to your bore!
Us old fart benchrest shooters have been using
JB for decades to remove tough deposits.Even as good as it is, a few passes as yours would accomplish zip.
A lot of rounds (1000's) will eventually wear out first the leade then the lands/grooves area.
A lot of heat will speed this up substantially
(Machine gun) but for ordinary shooting most barrels will outlast the owner. The variation
in your group size is normal-Don't we all wish
we could shoot 3/4 MOA at will!!! Enjoy your
toy and quit worrying.Regards,Chuck Hunt
PS I've always wondered why the military did'nt
consider the 6x47.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:27:41 AM EDT
Don't worry about it. Putting JB down the barrel a half dozen times isn't going to ruin it, not by a long shot, nor will it change the dimensions of the lands and grooves by any measurable or significant amount.

I would guess that the groups opening up is due to some other factor, like barrel heating up or something operator-related.

But I would not make a habit of using JB paste on a regular basis. The only time I've ever needed it was to polish out a few rough barrels that would foul quickly and badly.

Link Posted: 6/30/2002 11:30:19 AM EDT
NewGuy,

I think you are going to be all right. Your groups opening up could and probably are the result of fatigue. Wait a few days ad go back. I bet they will close up.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 12:14:10 PM EDT
Boy, I feel a lot better now. I was so sick, I couldnt eat.

You know what kills me? The fact that I have Sweets, Kroil, Hoppes (benchrest), Hoppes (regular), Shooters Choice, and JB.

I am new to this as my name suggests, so I don't know what combination of cleaners to use. I have heared that some can react negitively with each other and can cause pitting or rust?

So Shooters Choice and Sweets is ok then?.

Thanks Again!

<-----All of a sudden Im hungry!

Waiting to go shoot is going to kill me! Unfortuneatley I'm going to have to order more ammo. I bought the last 3 boxes of .308 from Walmart, so there is no more.

I was hesitent to shoot the crappy ammo out of the new rifle, because I know it wasn't the right weight, etc.. I was pleasently surprised of how well it shot though.

I'll have to call Georgia Precision tomorrow and order some Black Hills. What do you think of 175gr? or should I go with 168gr?
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 5:23:58 PM EDT
^
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:16:06 PM EDT
Let me clarify: I don't use Shooter's Choice and Sweet's in the bore at the same time. Once I've cleaned the powder fouling out with Shooter's Choice, I use dry patches to get it all out, then run a Sheath coated patch through and let it sit for a few. Then more dry patches followed by the Sweet's. As long as you don't run two solvents in the bore at the same time you should be okay.

Six passes with JB removing enough metal to ruin the bore and round off the lands and grooves? I think not. You're more likely to damage the bore with a bent cleaning rod than limited use of JB.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:36:25 AM EDT
All this crap about JB hurting your bbl? Give me a break, I have used it extensively on ALL my rifles and I still get .300 to .775 groups from .223 through .308

And no, I don't mean .300 to .775 from the same bbl as in inconsistant performance.

Relax, you have done nothing wrong. Just make sure noting has come loose and like others have said, ENJOY!!
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:44:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 7:51:41 AM EDT by crashburnrepeat]
NewGuy,

Don't sweat the JB. You didn't do ANYTHING to your barrel. I have a DPMS Extreme bull that I broke in with JB on a dry barrel. I literally shot/cleaned/shot/cleaned with JB for 200 rounds. :-) Took me two freakin weeks and gave me popeye arm.

My DPMS shoots just under 1/2 MOA all day long w/o cleaning. I have never had a noticeable loss of accuracy due to fouling. The JB is milder than even toothpaste and like a previous poster mentioned, you can use it for years without any worry.

Either fatigue, stress or ammo variation caused your groups opening up.

Your other question about mixing cleaners is also a good question. Basically you want to avoid mixing cleaners in order to avoid causing ammonia salts to form in your barrel. All salts will draw water and cause corrosion. I generally avoid any cleaner with ammonia in it and when I do use them (Sweets 7.62) I give my barrel a good dousing of oil after removing all the cleaner just to be sure.


Don't worry about your barrel, you did it no harm and likely made your break in better by getting the copper out between shots.

Crash.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:13:19 AM EDT
Thank you everybody, so much!

This board is great! Where else can you get info like this? I appreciate it guys.

<----I'm going to make sure my bore is dry now, and run a patch of CLP just to be sure.

You know what I just noticed? The Kroils says that it lubricates and protects, I thought it was a solvent????
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:43:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Sparky315:
JB is too fine and mild an abrasive to trash your barrel, especially used only 6 times.




I disagree. JB and all the other dirt based abrasive cleaners (read the ingredients) are very abrasize and should only be used on severly rusted, pitted or fouled brls.

When you use JB you are running rocks and sand through your brl, rounding off lands and grooves in the process.

That is why your 3/4MOA rifle is now a 1.25MOA rifle.



WRONG! I've done allot of research on cleaning products in my 25+ years of shooting.
Unless you're using a uncoated, multi section cleaning rod, you did not damage your barrel.

I'm probably one of the most anal shooters on the planet when it comes to cleaning weapons.
I've used JB over the past bazillion years on Sub MOA Match rifles, both bolt and gas guns. It has done nothing to damage the rifling on any of my weapons.

The only thing you must be careful of is dragging the JB patch back and forth across
the barrel crown. YEARS of doing this can cause uneven wear on the crown which will dramatically affect accuracy. Use a JAG if at all possible.

Also, It's not unusual to see someone move from firing a sub MOA group to a larger group within the same session. As I'm sure you know, there are many variables that affect accuracy...too many to go into here.
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