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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 6/20/2002 9:12:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 9:27:46 PM EDT by sniped]
in the event SHTF

In the unlikely but not out of the question event. It would seem if you shot more than a 3 round burst they, (commie baster)DBA liberals with attitudes, would have your position and smoke your ass in a heart beat.

I would think you should shoot one or two well placed very accurate shots, and get the hell out of there. Also in a hunting situation, game my be scarce and small game might be the only food source, again one shot placement is a must.

While I must agree most of you can shoot accurately with surplus ammo, but packing 10k rounds would be a bitch, correct me if I'm wrong

I stop buying surplus and now buy only Backhills
Hornady (balls accurate) and started to roll my own. I know its fun to plink with surplus, it seem to me if you spend $$$ for a nice weapon why would you shoot sub (accurate) par ammo design for full auto burst?

Just a thought to consider, I've seen allot of people put stock in stockpiling ammo, so I had to ask.

What Say You

PS it cost me .21 cents a round to load highly accurate ammo, about the same cost as surplus
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:16:09 PM EDT
how long will your supply last if your in a SHTF/defend-the-US-from-paratrooping-commie-bastard situation with no resuply for over a year?


I learned a very important lesson in Boy Scouts--"Be Prepared

it dosen't say be prepared for what, just be prepared
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:24:21 PM EDT
Not everyone reloads.

Surplus ammo is cheap and reliable.

You cant buy ammo in a SHTF situation usually

Some of us shoot 500+ rounds in 1 range trip

We like to supply our friends during a SHTF situation.

I can go on.......

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniped:
in the event SHTF

In the unlikely but not out of the question event. It would seem if you shot more than a 3 round burst they, (commie baster)DBA liberals with attitudes, would have your position and smoke your ass in a heart beat.

I would think you should shoot one or two well placed very accurate shots, and get the hell out of there. Also in a hunting situation, game my be scarce and small game might be the only food source, again one shot placement is a must.

While I must agree most of you can shoot accurately with surplus ammo, but packing 10k rounds would be a bitch, correct me if I'm wrong

I stop buying surplus and now buy only Backhills
Hornady (balls accurate) and started to roll my own. I know its fun to plink with surplus, it seem to me if you spend $$$ for a nice weapon why would I shoot sub (accurate) par ammo design for full auto burst?

Just a thought to consider, I've seen allot of people put stock in stockpiling ammo, so I had to ask.

What Say You

PS it cost me .21 cents a round to load highly accurate ammo, about the same cost as surplus


I think the purpose of having 10K rounds along with stockpiles of food and water is so they dont have to leave. If they leave, their supply line is cut off. Also, with surplus south african ammo costing 10 cents each shipped it is far wiser to purchase this then for you and me to load 69gr matchkings for defense.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:27:09 PM EDT
I got to agree with sniped. I think that 1000 rounds for each rifle and 200 rounds for each pistol is enough to "stockpile" for SHTF. I'd have maybe a few 1000 more of rifle ammo but 10000 is way to much.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:53:45 PM EDT
The way I see it, stockpiling ammo (and mags and spare parts and extra rifles) is done in case your supply has to last you for the rest of your (and/or yours) life. And in that scenario, military ammo makes the most sense since it is sealed and less prone to deterioration. Plus, you can get great deals buying bulk!

The intent isn't to try to "pack" 10k+ rounds, but to cache it. Also, if your opponent is shooting back, you may not have the option of shooting one or two well placed shots and then retreating. For one thing, how many opponents are there? Where are you going to retreat to?

For a hunting/survival situation, if all you have is your combat weapon, then minimizing the number of shots obviously makes sense. But if you are prepared enough to have stockpiled a cache of supplies, then there should be a .22LR available for small game and maybe a bow or cross bow for larger animals. If you are hunkered down in some out of the way place in the sticks, you wouldn't want to make a bunch of noise (thus making it known that someone was out there) just for your food.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 10:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 11:04:10 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
If you think 10k rounds is bad, I know someone who has over 50k rounds of 5.56mm. Some is surplus, some is Winchester Q3131/Q3131A, and some are reloads he did himself. And that's not the only caliber he's like that with. He's got enough .45ACP and 9mm to last a long, long time.

As far as SHTF, sure, I've got some SHTF ammo. So does my next door neighbor who is a cop. It's just in case stuff. I'd rather have more ammo than I'll ever need and not have to use it than have a need for it and not have it.

However, what I'd be more worried about is a ban on certain "military" ammo calibers for civilian ownership in the future. While unlikely, it is possible, and much more likely than a Rambo SHTF scenario.

BTW, my retail cost on Winchester/IMI Q3131A is $.21/round after taxes, and that's buying it in 20rd Winchester white boxes. Buying the same ammo by the case at the fun show, my price per round is $.17/round. If I buy five cases at a time, I get the cost down even lower. So, just like in anything in the consumer market, I buy in bulk to save money. And as soon as I have another job I'll be doing my own reloads.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 11:12:15 PM EDT
It keeps my X-wife on her side of the fence.Just joking I love her . I like to go to the range without stopping by the gunshop.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 11:24:15 PM EDT
... For $hits loads of targets
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:50:35 AM EDT
Practice, Practice, & Practic.

Or just need to laydown a very long cover fire.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 2:05:39 AM EDT
I would disagree that your assumption is that all surplus is innaccurate. I have some British surplus 303 that is far more accurate then anything I've ever had. With surplus you can have it your way; cheap AND accurate. However it does depend upon what type of surplus it is. In a SHTF fan with hoards of mutant zombies breaking down your bedroom door do you REALLY need sub-MOA ammunition??? Nothing wrong with BH ammo; great stuff. However I only use it when I need to head shoot a prarie dog at 300 yrds. Use the correct tool for the job.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 2:30:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Some of us shoot 500+ rounds in 1 range trip



BINGO!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 2:45:17 AM EDT
Hell 1000 rds wouldn't last most of use MGer's an hour. You know how much a full auto 1919 eats? John
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 2:53:35 AM EDT
I'm not planning to go anywhere so I'm not packing anything.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:13:48 AM EDT
I wouldn't call Federal XM193 or Winchester Q3131 military surplus. But of course there are plenty of surplus ammo being sold out there everyday that works just fine. Yes you should shoot the cheap stuff and stash the good stuff.
But it's a personal choice. Any ammo is better then no ammo at all. As for how much do I need? It's more like how much can I afford!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:15:45 AM EDT
You can never have enough ammo, especially if you're not a very good shot. Consider that millions of sperm get fired at one egg, and only one usually hits the target.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:33:31 AM EDT
Even if we never get a SHTF event, its a good idea to buy surplus ammo when it is cheap. The stuff will not be around forever. Buy a lot when it is low priced and available and you save money in the long run.

I'm just saving money by spending money buying all this surplus money.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:46:36 AM EDT
Buying in bulk is cheaper. Surplus is the cheapest to buy in bulk.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:59:07 AM EDT
Just ordered 3000 round of wolf 7.62x39 from sportsmans
guide. Should get here shortly after my two new SAR-1s do!
I plan on stockpiling shitloads of this stuff in the months to come. At $65 per thousand it's tough to resist.
I figure one case per paycheck for the next six months ought to be a fair start.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:08:36 AM EDT
Sniped, there are many reasons to buy and to use surplus ammo. I have a lot of mguns and shoot on a regular basis. My average trip to the range consumes about 1500-2500 rounds per trip, so I NEED a lot of ammo in stock. I currently have in excess of 50,000 rounds and will add to that number soon, as it is getting low in my mind. I do reload but not for my mguns, only for a few of my sub guns. I can buy surplus ammo in bulk (10,000 rounds) with new brass and FMJ bullet for about 8.5 cents per round, my time is worth more than that.

In a situation where you are engaging targets at a long distance one does not need a large amount of ammo. In the case of long range target engagement, precise reloading is a big plus for the shooter. Of course the shooter will be engaging one or two targets at the most and then retreating rapidly to other parts, in this case only five rounds would be needed, "just in case".

In the case of full blown battle the combatant will need as much ammo as can be resupplied or held in immediate reserve. Full battle will require the combatant to actively engage several targets at one time in a very rapid manner and on the move. The expending of several hundred rounds will be required to win each contact or at least to react and retreat. In the case of "sniped" fire as you are refering to, only a small amount of ammo will be required. However when one steps into the "valley of death" much more ammo will be required to survive engagement.

Tony G
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:39:08 AM EDT
I don't know why I stash thousands of rounds of surplus ammo. I just do.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:49:39 AM EDT

PS it cost me .21 cents a round to load highly accurate ammo, about the same cost as surplus



.21 Cents!!!! Are you crazy? Handloading can be fun and rewarding but when you figure in your time which most people do not you don't save crap!!!! Why do you assume that a multi million dollar ammunition plant can't manufacuture a quality product. The South African surplus .223 out of both of my AR's is capable of near MOA accuracy. I also paid a hell of alot less than .21 cents per round. What makes you think that prices won't go up? What makes you think the Fed's won't restrict primers? or powder? Buy what you can now...for the rest of your life.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:51:46 AM EDT
If any of you guys really feel you have stockpiled too much ammo, surplus or otherwise, I can give you the address of "Ikor's Home for Wayward Bulletz", and you can send it there...it's for the children.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:01:36 AM EDT
sniped, No one here can predict when we will have a SHTF scenario, and it will be just as hard to guess what kind of SHTF scenario you might encounter. That is a good enough reason for me to stock as much New Production XM193/Q3131A/M855 as I can afford. Besides I also go through around 500 or more rounds each trip to the range and that is with just one semi auto AR15. It is getting harder to find new production LCXM193, and one day it might be impossible. On the same manner of thought, many of us stock up on 30 round USGI mags and have several uppers for our AR15's because we can right now. Who knows what anti constitutional law is next to come from our dumb ass polititians. When stocking up correctly, you should have enough ammo/mags/weapons for you and your childrens life expectancy.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:02:18 AM EDT
I buy surplus ammo because it's cheap great to use for the kind of shooting that I do and plentiful for now. I'm not planning for the S to HTF in the sense that I may need to use a lot of ammo. To me SHTF means natural disaster where power is out or travel is restricted for a few days so I keep a little extra food and firewood around. My ammo is for play. I don't like running to the store to buy a box of ammo when I want to play. I like grabbing a can full of what ever I will be using and hitting the range/strip mine/woods. I keep a generous supply on hand and when I get below comfort level I buy more. I stay stocked up in the event that importation is restricted and availability is limited. How many threads have we seen where a guy is asking where he can find such and such a caliber of ammunition because his usual sources are out?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:18:12 AM EDT
Remember, a gun without ammo is only good for a club (a parallel is a semi without a mag ...).

That being said, I like sitting on a bulk of ammo and rotating it out. My SHTF scenario is: I live (most of the time) on 600 acres in northern Vermont. About an 60 miles from the nearest "big" city and 7 hours from New York.

Let's say the fucking terrorists light NYC up with a nuke and a mass exodus happens along with the attendant civil disorder. I want to be able to protect my family & property for a sustained period of time and the General Store 10 miles away carries 30-30 & 30-06 not 5.56 TAP.

That being said, I buy ammo in bulk. I think I have about 12k rounds of IMI M855, 10k rounds of IMI 9mm blacktip and maybe 30k rounds of 22LR. Granted I shoot a Colt M16A1, Vector Arms Uzi and a Norrell 10/22, so you chew through the ammo.

But even for the semis, I must have 7k of 308 and stacks of 9mm, 40 and 45 ammo. Less of 30-06, 7MM and other hunting ammo.

My all time high was shortly after Y2k fears subsided and folks realized they were sitting on extra ammo they didn't "need" must have bought an additional 7-9k rounds.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:35:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 8:38:08 AM EDT by sniped]
Great valid points I havent considered. I'm not saying that surplus is bad ammo, I love the stuff and have over 3k in .223 mainly for the LC brass. What I should be stocking up on is .40 & for my Steyr M40, any good buy on 40 cal?

One thing I havent considered is some of you have large property therefore there not a need to move, just protect your perimiter. I live in the cities with houses right next to me.

So any good buys on .40?? I need to stock up
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:43:56 AM EDT
How many of you have heard this statement from your family or friends: "If the sh!t hits the fan I'm coming to your house."

I own enough military rifles to arm my neighbors and immediate family, with plenty of ammo for each. I don't doubt for a second that if something does happen, my house will become an armory for a little while.

Another great reason for stockpiling ammo is that in a real, scary, life-or-death SHTF situation, you can always trade ammo for food or whatever. Ammo doesn't go bad, and when you need it, you really need it.

------------------
Ammunition: the currency of the new millenium.



Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:53:15 AM EDT
Captain call said it best, "I'd rather have it and not need it, then to not have it and need it".

That advise is priceless.

For you to sit there and type, "why do you need so much ammo", is really no different then you saying, well why do you need a gun?

SA surplus is around 10-12 cents a round FYI.
I don't know about you, but time is money for me.

Don't you have some reloading you can do?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 1:18:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 1:21:47 PM EDT by sniped]

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45:
Captain call said it best, "I'd rather have it and not need it, then to not have it and need it".

That advise is priceless.

For you to sit there and type, "why do you need so much ammo", is really no different then you saying, well why do you need a gun?

SA surplus is around 10-12 cents a round FYI.
I don't know about you, but time is money for me.

Don't you have some reloading you can do?



SHO you didn't have to respond so shitty, time is money, maybe for some, if you want to stock pile loads of ammo, go for it. I just started to reload as a hobby, read (leisure time) the fun is finding the right load for your gun, its not the $$$

Also 10 to 12 cents a round, please! show me where I can buy 3131a or anything but wolf for 100.00 to 120.00 a case, I'll buy in a heartbeat

The best I've seen it for is 160.00 thats .16 per round, like I said ALMOST the same cost

I see alot of you shoot tons of ammo per session, THAT make sense why you would have alot of ammo, I shoot maybe 50 rounds in a session, hence my reasoning.

Thanks for your insights, I knew I would get curious responses, well almost

Link Posted: 6/21/2002 2:23:41 PM EDT
I wonder why people stock 10s of thousands of rounds of ammo for a SHTF scenario. People say, we might need it, but it order to need 10k rounds you would have to have killed a few hundred people by the time you got to round 10000. In that case, the S would REALLY HTF.

However, at the same time, it can be cheaper to buy in bulk and who knows how far the liberals can take gun legislation. If such things like the mail order ban take place, ammo prices could skyrocket, or in the case of a total liberal takeover, further ammo/gun sales could be banned forever. That would be a SHTF scenario in its own way.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:23:09 PM EDT
Sniped, it's ok that you live in the city, but you can still stockpile surplus. For one thing, those surplus battle packs with the neat little handles and camo covers are real handy. You could grab a couple thousand rounds and run. They store a lot of ammo in a small place. Those BH boxes are bulky and brilliantly red colored (just the thing in a fire fight - bright flashy red). As an exercise - quick, run downstairs and grab three thousand rounds of BH and run upstairs and throw it in the back of your vehicle. You'll probably be grabbing a suitcase to put it all in, then the suitcase will break because it's not designed to hold so much weight. If it does hold the weight, quick drive over to your best friends house and give him a thousand rounds. Run back to your house, grab one thousand .... you get the idea. If you worried about bugging out, what about a small trailer. I have a small trailer about 5'x2'x6' that I keep loaded with SHTF camping supplies and ammo at all times. If I need to bug-out I just hook up the family van to it and drive off. It's loaded with lots of surplus ammo
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:57:30 PM EDT
Well, if you need it and dont have it !
You will sing a different tune !!!!!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:08:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 4:46:58 PM EDT
becouse its cheap and i can shoot more for less $$$
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:52:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Ammunition: the currency of the new millenium.



Exactly! Or, to put it another way:

Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:57:52 PM EDT
All of the above reasons, plus I want to have an arsenal as defined by HCI/VPC.

But seriously, ammo is cheaper in large quantities. Why not by 1k or 5k at a time, and just grab a few boxes whenever you want to go to the range? Much better then going to the gunstore and paying twice as much.

As for the accuracy argument, just how accurate are you really going to need? From what I hear, M193 or M855 is plenty accurate enough to hit a man out to 200 yards. Engaging targets further out then that is questionable if your goal is self-defense.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 4:09:10 AM EDT
[/uote]
The best I've seen it for is 160.00 thats .16 per round, like I said ALMOST the same cost


There alot of us here that paid 278 for 2700 rd. tubs of South African. If you can't find .223 ammo for less than .16 cents per rounds then you ain't shoppin' for shit. Load all that you want. I load too but I work 50 hours a week or more and sometimes don't have the time. That's why I have 12K rounds of .223

Link Posted: 6/22/2002 4:50:03 AM EDT
As others have pointed out you will probably be suppling the people who didn't think to be prepared for the bad things in the world. How many of us really need more then 1 AR or AK, I keep all mine for arming those that don't have any. If the SHTF doesn't happen then they will be passed onto my kids later in life. I will say that anyone who thinks they could survive a true SHTF scenario alone is dreaming. Your best bet will be to join forces with others. Obviously it would be better to join with people who know about and how to use firearms but that probably won't be the case for most. I also shoot a lot so I keep a lot of ammo just to shoot when I want.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 6:42:01 AM EDT
I buy bulk surplus because practice makes perfect and whatnot, and I want to practice cheaply.

I don't mind loading my own, but if I can spend $90-180 on 1,000 rounds of 7.62X39, 5.56X45 or 7.52X51, you think I'm going to spend my time loading and seating bullets?

I reload when I compete or when I feel I need the extra bit of accuracy and oomph, but beyond that... unless I start shooting a lot or .30'06 or .300 WIN MAG again, there's not much of a point.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 6:58:59 AM EDT
Tree removal.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 6:17:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Exactly! Or, to put it another way:

Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.




A timeless quote indeed!!!
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 7:33:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2002 7:43:07 PM EDT by UrbanMarine]
Depends on what type shooting I do. I buy Federal Prem and Remington Ballistic Tips for just me. I buy WOLF and other surplus for the group shooting. When I shoot CQB Hormandy TAP is great. I've had people say WOLF is junk, but Specials Forces, SWAT, and other tactical groups use it. It's very cheap and lasts forever. I was reading an old issue of SWAT and they talked about WOLF. Everyone has their favorite ammo. Most engagements happen with in a 100-200 yards. And a lot of wars are going into Urban areas. Sometimes extreme accuracy is not need.
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