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Posted: 6/18/2002 6:34:33 PM EDT
Was at a Ft. Myers, Fl. Gun Show and found a German STG44 (Original assult weapon)Dummy Gun.
Looked cool so I bought it for $200. Well the dummy was me, it turned out to be an all matching fully automatic STG44 made in 1945.
Had ATF check it, yep not registered, they must melt it. After a little begging they let me do this to it to at least get the parts off the reciver. Better than nothing. Rifle is a web pic. Ever see a grown man cry?

http://image1.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=349904


http://image1.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=349911
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:39:09 PM EDT
[>Q]
AB
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:46:48 PM EDT
Oh yea, had to sign an abandonment form giving up any future claims to this puppy. Better than 10 years and $10,000. fine which is what I think it costs now-a-days. Damn that "it's comming soon or so we hope" AMNESTY.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:54:02 PM EDT
I was going to have a bedtime snack, but I just lost my appetite.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:08:16 PM EDT
for the love of God

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:09:11 PM EDT
They did'nt give you the opportunity to donate it to a museum? (Which would'nt suprise me in the least..)

Meplat-
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:12:51 PM EDT
I would have stashed the thing and not told another living soul.

I myself would rather have saved it (never being able to shoot or show it in public)
Than turn such a rare and historic item into scrap.

I feel your loss [>(]
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:17:56 PM EDT
No way, I'm lucky to have gotten what I did. If it wasn't that I had a portable chop saw I wouldn't of gotten this. I'm wondering if I should keep or sell it as a parts kit? Anyone know what an all matching STG44 parts kit is going for these days?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:21:58 PM EDT
I don't wish to get busted for possesion of contraband. Oh well.
Damn, I need to look into compressing the pics, my daily limit has been reached for today.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:24:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunWhoreDer:
No way, I'm lucky to have gotten what I did. If it wasn't that I had a portable chop saw I wouldn't of gotten this. I'm wondering if I should keep or sell it as a parts kit? Anyone know what an all matching STG44 parts kit is going for these days?



Being in the legal profession, I strongly advocate staying legal, but you should not, no wait, CAN NOT have this matching gun melted or in any way disassembled! Donate it, stash it or just bow down to it, but what the ATF doesn't know won't kill them. These laws are pretty arbitrary and I'm wondering if there isn't anything that would protect a historical relic. Before you do anything, see if any special accomodation can be made.

DON"T MELT IT, if anything, try to find a place to donate it for a fat write off. Please tell us you weren't stupid enough to give them your name and that you actually own it?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:33:24 PM EDT
Well MINMAN72, wait till 12:01 and check back to see the pics. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:41:57 PM EDT

what an all matching STG44 parts kit is going for these days?

About $800.00 if you can find a buyer
www.ima-usa.com/p2a.html

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:52:44 PM EDT
They are sold out and arn't getting anymore, plus I don't think they use all the parts that come in a parts set to build the Dummy Guns. I will call them and see if I can buy a Dummy Receiver from them if they have any left.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 8:02:55 PM EDT
This is late but can you say "demil"
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 10:54:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 12:45:49 AM EDT by Skammy]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO­OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO­OOOOOOOOOOO [>(],
anyways gonna keep the parts im interested in buying some
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:47:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:18:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 2:20:09 AM EDT by USNJoe]
The ATF is fuc...errr messed up when it comes to historic firearms.
The Glaicer Girl is a P-38 that crashed in Greenland in 1942, was recovered in 1992 and is being restored to almost 100% flying condition.
When they recovered the aircraft in 1992 the guns were still loaded. They pulled out one of the 50 cals, set it up and fired it.
They had to get permission (wtf over) from the State Department and the ATF to "import" the 4 .50 cal guns and the 1 20mm cannon back into the USA.
Then the BATF made them de-mil the guns. They were not allowed to keep them in operating condition for historical or museum purposes.
They were completely restored, except for being de-milled by Military Systems Group of Nashville, TN.
Go figure.

www.thelostsquadron.com/
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:46:26 AM EDT
Are those pics of the same weapon?
Compare the wood patterns from the two.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:43:36 AM EDT
Any chance we could get a measure on the next national election ballot to band the ATF?

Further measures might restrict all ATF operations to north of the artic circle and require all ATF employees to under go a vasectomy/tubal ligation.

What about requiring ATF agents to tatoo "I HATE GUNS" in 1 inch high letters on their forehead?

What about a requirement that ATF administrators undergo chemotherapy 12 times a year whether or not they suffer from cancer?

Any other good ideas out there?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 4:03:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
Any chance we could get a measure on the next national election ballot to band the ATF?

Further measures might restrict all ATF operations to north of the artic circle and require all ATF employees to under go a vasectomy/tubal ligation.

What about requiring ATF agents to tatoo "I HATE GUNS" in 1 inch high letters on their forehead?

What about a requirement that ATF administrators undergo chemotherapy 12 times a year whether or not they suffer from cancer?

Any other good ideas out there?



All of the above, plus:

All BATF agents must pay a $200 tax every time they get a muffler replaced on their car. They must also pay the tax if they get a Short-Bodied-Car with a wheelbase less than 105 inches. It also applies for cars without a 25 mph speed regulator. Do it for the children!

"He needed an @ss-whooping" becomes a valid legal defense in the case of an assault on an ATF agent who is in the course of arresting you for an offense related only to the possession of firearms.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 4:11:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 4:17:45 AM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally Posted By QUIB:
Are those pics of the same weapon?
Compare the wood patterns from the two.



Good eye QUIB, this story is bogus. That is not the same buttstock. Notice the grain on the wood and the scratches at the wrist on the complete rifle compared to the "demilled". This guy is pulling our legs. ATF let someone "demil" their own illegal automatic weapon!?! Wake up people! He had a portable chop saw!?! Please!
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 4:19:24 AM EDT
where in the hell are the photos ????????????/
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:
Are those pics of the same weapon?
Compare the wood patterns from the two.



QUIB, No as I said in my 1st post which has not been edited, The rifle is a web pic. I didn't get to photogragh it before the fact. Man you guys jjust love to be paranoid.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By QUIB:
Are those pics of the same weapon?
Compare the wood patterns from the two.



Good eye QUIB, this story is bogus. That is not the same buttstock. Notice the grain on the wood and the scratches at the wrist on the complete rifle compared to the "demilled". This guy is pulling our legs. ATF let someone "demil" their own illegal automatic weapon!?! Wake up people! He had a portable chop saw!?! Please!



SUKEBE, You should try reading. Here is a clip from my unedited 1st post. "After a little begging they let me do this to it to at least get the parts off the reciver. Better than nothing. Rifle is a web pic. Ever see a grown man cry?"
Yes the agent was cool, and the Black and Decker chop saw I have was used when he came to fill out the abandonment form. Yes I'm the only person in the world w/ a chop saw.
Sorry but couldn't figure out how to compress photos last night so the photos are out till 6-20-02.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:48:20 AM EDT
I can read(between the lines as well) and I can see. They aren't the same rifles. The buttstocks are completely different. Aside from the differences I mentioned, the buttstock on the demilled rifle has dents in the area of the toe that don't appear on the complete rifle. The differences are very obvious. Different grain, scratches and dents that don't match between photos. Regardless of the slightly different lighting and angles between the photos, the differences are unmistakable. Very convenient that you can't repost the photos. I won't argue the point any further. Where did it happen, What ATF office? Who is the agent? I have been a cop for 14 years. I have some acquaintances in the ATF locally. I will be happy to either contact them and have them contact your agent or I will be happy to contact him myself. I will be happy to go to that extreme to prove that I am wrong. Will you go that far to prove that your story is the truth?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:22:38 AM EDT
These STG44 and P-38 stories are sickening.

I won't say how I feel about the batf.

SATAN SMILES WHEN HE THINKS OF THESE EVENTS.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:31:45 PM EDT
Anyone got hip-waders?


Scott
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:43:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I have been a cop for 14 years. I have some acquaintances in the ATF locally. I will be happy to either contact them and have them contact your agent or I will be happy to contact him myself. I will be happy to go to that extreme to prove that I am wrong. Will you go that far to prove that your story is the truth?



how about you try to save the rifle instead? isnt that more important than proving that someone is right, and someone else wrong?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:44:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DScottHewitt:
Anyone got hip-waders?


Scott



Yup.

Trolling to get someone to recommend taking an illegal action.

Remember - the ATF , FBI, etc can LEGALLY now seek out and entrap people in internet sites (tho its been my contention they been doin' that for years)

Bugger off, troll boy.



Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:31:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:41:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 2:44:05 PM EDT by redray]
sukebe,

its a web picture. meaning he got the picture off of another site or somewhere else. its not THE rifle he has or had. dont go off on a tangent before you read things over. and over again, in your case. your attitude is laughable.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:49:34 PM EDT
[>Q] the HORROR [>q]
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:05:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 3:07:34 PM EDT by saleen]
That's why you start any question put to the ATF with the word "HYPOTHETICALLY".......

Oh yeah, and refuse to ID yourself. After all, you initiated the contact.


Saleen
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 3:35:54 PM EDT by GunWhoreDer]

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I can read(between the lines as well) and I can see. They aren't the same rifles. The buttstocks are completely different. Aside from the differences I mentioned, the buttstock on the demilled rifle has dents in the area of the toe that don't appear on the complete rifle. The differences are very obvious. Different grain, scratches and dents that don't match between photos. Regardless of the slightly different lighting and angles between the photos, the differences are unmistakable. Very convenient that you can't repost the photos. I won't argue the point any further. Where did it happen, What ATF office? Who is the agent? I have been a cop for 14 years. I have some acquaintances in the ATF locally. I will be happy to either contact them and have them contact your agent or I will be happy to contact him myself. I will be happy to go to that extreme to prove that I am wrong. Will you go that far to prove that your story is the truth?



Thanks to the majority of you for the support. As for SUKEBE and a few others who called me a troll or a lier, thanks for that too tho I don't feel I deserve that. Yes I am telling the truth, but it's not worth me BURNING the ATF agent by giving details like you want just to prove something that if you had read the 1st post carefully you wouldn't have dad to rant about the pics being different weapons. I'll try to figure out how to compress the pics so more poeple can look at them w/o going over limit.
As to the trolling for recommendations of illegal actions, Man I already cut the thing up. I'm not asking what to do, just telling you what I had to do already.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:37:54 PM EDT
This reminds me of the time I bought a 1/35 scale MRC Tamiya model kit of an M1A2 Abrams tank. Got it home and opened up the box and damned if it wasn't actually a REAL bonafide M1A2 tank in the box. "Now what, I thought...", then I recalled that I too, have a portable chop saw. A real cool DeWalt model; so lickety-split, wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, it was a done deal, she was demilled.

Its parked next to my garage right now...

... now if I can just figure out how to post those pics...
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:54:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabid_Coyote:
This reminds me of the time I bought a 1/35 scale MRC Tamiya model kit of an M1A2 Abrams tank. Got it home and opened up the box and damned if it wasn't actually a REAL bonafide M1A2 tank in the box. "Now what, I thought...", then I recalled that I too, have a portable chop saw. A real cool DeWalt model; so lickety-split, wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, it was a done deal, she was demilled.

Its parked next to my garage right now...

... now if I can just figure out how to post those pics...



Now see this was a SLAM, but a DAMN funny one. OK Here come the pics. I just signed up w/ webphotos.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:56:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 3:59:41 PM EDT by GunWhoreDer]
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 5:52:46 PM EDT
GunWhoreDer, if you had an actual pic of the rifle before and after, the story would be easier to believe. I'm not calling you a liar, I know you need to prove nothing to nobody. Sorry about what you had to do to that great piece of history, hope there's no hard feelings! Sorry I didn't pay closer attention reading your post.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 6:01:02 PM EDT
Yes I know, but at the time I wasn't thinking about documenting the possible contraband. By the way are the second set of pics showing up OK? Thanks for the post.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:59:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunWhoreDer:
.... but it's not worth me BURNING the ATF agent by giving details like you want just to prove something ....



IF everything is on the up and up (ie: TRUE) how would/could the ATF be burned?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 9:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 9:07:46 PM EDT by Citabria7GCBC]
BAN the BATF...not for the children, for US!
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 12:52:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 7IDL:

Originally Posted By GunWhoreDer:
.... but it's not worth me BURNING the ATF agent by giving details like you want just to prove something ....



IF everything is on the up and up (ie: TRUE) how would/could the ATF be burned?



What he said...


Scott

Link Posted: 6/20/2002 1:16:05 AM EDT
Assuming this story is true, how many people would have destroyed the weapon instead of trying to see it preserved?

I'll bet the NRA would have helped see it go to a museum. The Army would probably love to have an example of an Stg44 in one of their museums or firearm collections. Hell, even the Smithsonian might get involved to see such a rare artifact preserved for future generations.

If your story is true, I'm sorry, but you are either a fool or a coward. What a waste.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 1:19:03 AM EDT
I see a couple of red X

medcop
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:13:32 AM EDT
I was wrong about the photos. I was under the impression that they were posted through a web photo service and were meant to represent the same weapon. The story is no less unbelieveable.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:46:45 AM EDT

I'll bet the NRA would have helped see it go to a museum. The Army would probably love to have an example of an Stg44 in one of their museums or firearm collections. Hell, even the Smithsonian might get involved to see such a rare artifact preserved for future generations.

You would think so, but apparently not. In SAR a few months ago, there was a short piece about an AK-47 in Clark Clifford's (former Secretary of Defense under LBJ) estate that had been presented to him by a South Vietnamese general. It was unregistered and as far as the BATF was concerned, contraband- NO EXCEPTIONS. Consequently, it was summarily destroyed.

You can guffaw at this story all you want, but the seller had the last laugh. He was able to unload what was essentially a worthless weapon for $200. I'm inclined to believe that the seller knew its status all along.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:57:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunWhoreDer:
Was at a Ft. Myers, Fl. Gun Show and found a German STG44 (Original assult weapon)Dummy Gun.
Looked cool so I bought it for $200. Well the dummy was me, it turned out to be an all matching fully automatic STG44 made in 1945.
Had ATF check it, yep not registered, they must melt it. After a little begging they let me do this to it to at least get the parts off the reciver. Better than nothing. Rifle is a web pic. Ever see a grown man cry?



What happened to the guy who sold it to you?
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 5:31:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 5:34:44 AM EDT by GunWhoreDer]

Originally Posted By 7IDL:

Originally Posted By GunWhoreDer:
.... but it's not worth me BURNING the ATF agent by giving details like you want just to prove something ....



IF everything is on the up and up (ie: TRUE) how would/could the ATF be burned?



As SKUEBE had said it's hard to beleave the agent would let me do this, I feel he gave me a brake. He might get in trouble for it and the next time they might not be willing to go out on a limb for one of us. Man I try to look out for those who help me, we need all the freinds we can get, especially in the ATF.
As for the seller, I didn't get a receipt for what I was sure a Dummy Gun.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 6:20:46 AM EDT
Always remember: NO GOOD DEED EVER GOES UNPUNISHED . . .
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 6:47:37 AM EDT
Just one "little" item on all this about the ATF agent. When you called (I assume on a weekday, not the day of the show) you actually REACHED an agent and spoke with one not having to leave a message for a call back, AMAZING!!! Also, the branch that classsifies how disposing of a machine gun is in Tampa for your area, and usually takes letters, diagrams and a good number of phone calls to get an answer on the "correct" way to demill one. On your behalf, I see the receive is cut through the magwell which is usually a requirement, but most of the time (not all) the ATF wants the receiver cut into 3 pieces. One would hope for your sake that you got the agents name and WRITTEN permission to do the demill yourself. I know most agents will try and help you, but you should always cover yourself with written statements.

BTW - I work for a company (FSS- Firearms Simulation Systems) that does work with demilling machine guns (yes, I am going to hell) for trainers for police and military use and it's always an adventure getting the proper paper work.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 9:51:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

I'll bet the NRA would have helped see it go to a museum. The Army would probably love to have an example of an Stg44 in one of their museums or firearm collections. Hell, even the Smithsonian might get involved to see such a rare artifact preserved for future generations.

You would think so, but apparently not. In SAR a few months ago, there was a short piece about an AK-47 in Clark Clifford's (former Secretary of Defense under LBJ) estate that had been presented to him by a South Vietnamese general. It was unregistered and as far as the BATF was concerned, contraband- NO EXCEPTIONS. Consequently, it was summarily destroyed.

You can guffaw at this story all you want, but the seller had the last laugh. He was able to unload what was essentially a worthless weapon for $200. I'm inclined to believe that the seller knew its status all along.



To what extent did the estate go to in order to see the weapon preserved?

And the DOD/Army doesn't have to register their weapons, so a given weapon's status for eligibility for civilian ownership is irrelevent.

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