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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/17/2002 8:46:44 PM EDT
I picked up a gas nut wrench at the gunshow this weekend, and finally got the gas nut off my StG-58 kit. Then I dremeled through the thin part of the receiver stub in the charging handle rod channel with a cut-off wheel. A whack with a chisel and it split open perfectly. The threads were untouched.

And there was much rejoicing...

This week I'm going to hook up with a buddy of EricTheHun's who has a receiver wrench to get my receiver barreled and headspaced, and install the locking shoulder. After that I should be in business. The .308 business.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 9:10:29 PM EDT
I'll be hot on your tracks - I've been getting up to speed on FAL's for the last two weeks, handled three, looked over a kit, and plan to order a kit in the next day or so. It will most likely be a Grade 1 from Dan's Sporting Goods, however I looked at a STG 58 from M&A tonight that looked pretty good. The reports on the Grade 2 kits from Dan's have also been very positive.

I can see building 3 or 4 variations just for grins - just what I need, another rifle addiction.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 9:15:33 PM EDT
Jarhead_22, where did you get the kit and how much did it run you?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:33:19 AM EDT
These guys are pretty good and have kits:

Gunthings Ad
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:43:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
Jarhead_22, where did you get the kit and how much did it run you?


I got it almost a year ago from a guy on the Falfiles with the username boman. I think his name is Steve Bowman. It cost me $308(!) with shipping.

The kit is in great shape, with a nice shiny bore with sharp rifling. The finish isn't even that badly dinged, just high spots and the usual handling marks.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:55:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2002 6:56:26 AM EDT by CavVet]
I remember the magic of the weekend kit build I was lucky enough to be in on a year or so ago...She will always be a special firearm to me....


I got some parts and even some work done by Mark (gunplumber) at Arizona Response Systems . He is more than a good guy, he is a one of a kind.

This FAL bug seems worse than the AR bug. And I even got a note written by a foreign soldier inside one kit.



edited to fix link
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 10:26:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2002 10:39:12 AM EDT by smoken44]


I'm getting one of these next for my next build. DS aluminum lower, Imbel upper, iron wood stock, rail handgard, tac grip, L4 30 rd mag ect.... basicly a m4 on steroids. 308 rocks.....
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 11:18:43 AM EDT
The adjustable gas system should allow insuring the bolt cycles properly BUT...


Will the .308 get enough velocity in a 13" barrel???
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:33:56 PM EDT
Here's my first FAL build. I started with a de-milled Chilean army kit:



And here's the resulting gun:


Link Posted: 6/18/2002 10:47:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Jarhead_22, where did you get the kit and how much did it run you?


I got it almost a year ago from a guy on the Falfiles with the username boman. I think his name is Steve Bowman. It cost me $308(!) with shipping.

The kit is in great shape, with a nice shiny bore with sharp rifling. The finish isn't even that badly dinged, just high spots and the usual handling marks.



Thanks. I was thinking of getting a spare kit in case I need some parts for my other FALs.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 4:17:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

BUT...

Will the .308 get enough velocity in a 13" barrel???



No.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:12:50 AM EDT
As expected,there is a noticeable
drop in velocity compared to a full-length
FAL.Black Hills 175-gr.Match load
averaged 2,523 feet-per-second (fps)out
of a standard 21-inch FAL and 2,180 fps
out of the 11-inch barrel.Similarly,
Sellier &Bellot Match dropped from
2,517 fps to 2,190 fps.Radway Green's
147-gr.FMJBT averaged 2,419 fps from
the shorty so there is a significant drop in
power by going to the 11-inch barrel.
Although an eleven-inch FAL still
offers more energy than a sixteen-inch
7.62x39 AKM,the difference in energy is
not particularly great.The significant
advantage of a shorty FAL is a much
wider selection of premium and specialty
loads that are available in .308.


The following stats were from an article by David M. Fortier on an 11" DSA Fal. Add about 70fps for a 13" barrel.

I dont plan on shooting 600yds with it, more like 200-300 max. 150gr Nosler BT at 2450 fps carries over 1000 fp of energy at 300 yds. They work fine on whitetail out of hand rifles. (striker, XP....ect)


Link Posted: 6/19/2002 8:28:27 AM EDT
Nice work, marvl. Got any advice for a first-time builder?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 9:04:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 9:10:11 AM EDT by 19-kilo]
Here is some free advice...take it for what you paid for it.
1. Buy Gunplumbers video. Period.
2. Do NOT use the open end wrench on the bbl. flats. You have a very good chance of rounding them. Go to GUNTHINGS.COM and build their bbl. vise, if you have scaps in your garage you might not have to buy anything!
3. Use a cleaning rod and a level to TIME your bbl. Insert rod in the hand guard retaining screw hole and place a 3' level across the rear of the receiver, when these are parallel you should be in spitting distance.
4. Stop now. Do not go down this evil fowl road. It will only lead to a life of eating rice and Raman noodles because you blew all your money on FAL items!!!

PS. I don't understand why the hell anyone would WANT a 11" bbl'ed FAL!!! You still need a 5" muzzle thingy to be legal. Why not have a 16" bbl. and squeeze all the velocity you can, not to mention your sight radius sucks ass with that short of a front end.
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=tahrndt&album_id=69275&image_id=1&show=image¶m=85271
TOP pic is my Metrinch/Izzy. bbl is 16.75"
BOTTOM is my G1 with modified PG.
The Izzy stock is shorter than the G1 that is why it appears so much shorter.
KILO OUT.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 10:25:17 AM EDT by marvl]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Nice work, marvl. Got any advice for a first-time builder?



Thanks, Jarhead. Best advice I can give is spend the bucks to get the proper tools, or at least borrow them. I bought a receiver wrench, one of Wadman's barrel shaving tools to adjust barrel timing, headspace gauges, buttstock removal tool, and anything else I thought would help. I took a 27mm or 1-1/16in wrench and worked on it with a file until it would fit the barrel. This took me 2 tries, I made the first wrench too big.

Also, I decided Parkerizing was more than I wanted to handle first time out, what with all the hot chemicals, etc. So I opted for a painted finish. I used the Alum-Hyda paint available from Brownells, and after it air cried for a day baked it in the oven at 250-300 degrees for several hours. Finish seems decent, and the wife didn't complain about fumes either.

Gunplumber's video is pretty good, but the copy I bought was snowy as hell-- hard to see what he was doing sometimes. The AGI FN-FAL video is also excellent. I watched both of them a couple of times before I got down to serious business.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:59:12 AM EDT
Jarhead, if you are handy with tools (by your willingness to build a FAL that says something) Check out www.gunthings.com they show you how to build (with diagrams) a receiver wrench and the bbl vise. Both of these tools I have used many times. Total investment was about $23. I have seen some receiver wrenches for $75+, save your money and buy ammo/mags. Scrap aluminum, lead and some steel plate. A little welding/cutting and you have a professional quality set that will NEVER screw up your build. Also, with a good wrech and vise you will NOT have to potentiall screw up your bbl by "shaving" it.
I know that this technique was started by guys that did not have the correct tools. I cant beleive that FN,Imbel, SA, etc. armourers went around "shaving" bbls. With the correct tools you just torque it to 12:00. With these simple tools I know a guy that has taking off over 50 receiver stubs from bbls and NEVER once had to cut one!
Buy a butt stock tool, make the rest.
PS you can also use a Swiss Army knife (bottle opener blade) to remove a stuck gas tube nut!
Any possible questions can be found over at www.falfiles.com
Good Luck.
KILO OUT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 1:29:10 PM EDT
Thanks gents.

As I said above, I've got access to a friend's receiver wrench and barrel vise, so that's not going to be a problem for me. I threaded the barrel into my new Imbel receiver and, looking down the barrel from the front sight, it stops turning at about 11:00 or 11:15, so I should have no trouble timing the barrel out at TDC. No shaving should be necessary here.

If I get this FAL bug I keep hearing about, I'll probably end up accumulating some serious tools, but I'm on a pretty strict budget right now.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 1:51:08 PM EDT
How do you know what size locking shoulder you need? DSA sells eight different sizes from .259 to .266. Where is that measurement taken, and how?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:08:16 PM EDT
Smoken44, I built a DSA rifle with that exact front end (on a DSA upper). I havnt shot it yet so I dont know how it functions. It does look cool, but I must admit I HATE the fake browning flash hider. It does nothing except take up space and look stupid up close.

I think I'm going to contact DSA and see if I can trade up to a 16inch barrel and have KKF custom make me a real muzzle brake for it that looks like a flash hider. I do like the shorter gas system and one of DSA's rail handguards with my DSA flat top dust cover would totally kick ass!

Bottom line, if you like it, get it, DSA dont make junk and they said it does cycle without any problems.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:38:38 PM EDT
Here is my FAL type rifle. An Australian, Lithgow made L1A1 manufactured in 1962.

Link Posted: 6/19/2002 3:21:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2002 6:05:40 AM EDT by Wadman]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
How do you know what size locking shoulder you need? DSA sells eight different sizes from .259 to .266. Where is that measurement taken, and how?



First, go to this site and download Mark's FAL assembly workbook (and if it's helpful, pay him for it).

Gunplumber's Site

Headspacing an FAL is not difficult but does require some tools besides the actual go/no-go gauges themselves. The size range of locking shoulders you might need depends on the receiver you're using. I've found that metric IMBELs and DSAs were in the .256 to .261 range. People who've used Entreprise and other brands have reported needing locking shoulders .270 and larger. The thickness of the locking shoulder as measured from the angled flat face to the rounded back is the size of the shoulder.

Here's a picture of a set of ground and laser etched sizing rods:

Link Posted: 6/19/2002 5:52:26 PM EDT
Well, I've got the locking shoulder that came with my StG-58 kit, and an Imbel metric receiver. We'll see how it comes out.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 8:41:20 PM EDT
Someone sells steel rods milled to various diameters in the .256 to .272 range. The procedure is to try different rods in the locking shoulder hole, and try closing the bolt assembly on a go gauge. As I recall, you need to remove the extractor from the bolt for this to work properly. A dial caliper is almost essential to verify the rod size and locking shoulder size.
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