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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 6/14/2002 4:52:14 AM EDT
I have located a new Glock Model 21 .45 ACP at my shop that is priced worth the money. I must admit that I have tried to avoid the Glock over the years for various reasons. But I have come to realize that they are probably one of the top 3 combat pistols available today, along with Sig and H&K. Not that 1911's aren't nice, but I just don't care much for single action pistols.

So my question is, are the Glock's really as good as everyone says and has anyone here had any serious problems with a Glock Model 21? I want this to become my primary, go-everywhere-I-go carry gun, so it has to be utterly reliable and accurate. Please tell me about your experiences with the Glock. That should help me make my decision. I am trying to get away from the auto's that have the crappy trigger pull with all the slack in them...like S&W, Ruger, etc. I figure the Glock will have the same pull on every shot and the problem with slack will not be as much of an issue. For a carry gun, I think the pull it, aim it, pull the trigger concept is a good one. I don't wanna be burdoned by a manual safety or crappy trigger pull. Is the Glock what I need? Thanks for all the help I know you folks will offer.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:06:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:09:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 5:10:53 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
I own 2 model 21 Glocks, they are both utterly reliable, sufficently accurate and large for a CCW. I also own a 17 & a 19, all are great pistols.

Your statement "but I just don't care much for single action pistols" doesn't make much sense though, as Glocks are not double-action pistols and relate closer to single action than they do to double action. Glocks do have some take-up on first round fired to so maybe you might want to test fire one first, given your stated words.

My CCW weapon is a compact 1911.

Mike
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:10:41 AM EDT
I have carried a 26 for about a year. I recently bought a G20 and a G17. The 20 is the same size as the 21. I don't plan on carrying the 20 until winter. Have you tried to shoot one yet? The grip might not fir your hand the right way.
You can improve the trigger pull with a 3.5# connector and a felt wheel and a dremel.
Have you considered a G30?

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:29:40 AM EDT
I have looked at all the models....the 21 is the one I want. I'm not worried about concealment, I plan to carry it in the open in a Bianchi Accumold paddleback holster. I did fire about 10 rounds rapid fire through a model 21 once and I found the grip size and trigger pull satisfactory. But I just wanted some input from others who were more experienced than me with it's use.

As far as my comments about the 1911, I was referring more to how the gun would be employed. Even though it is a safe practice, I will never carry a gun cocked and locked. I tried that once and the stares and constant negative comments it drew I cannot tolerate. And even in cocked and locked mode you still have to manipulate the safety. Or you can carry it with the chamber empty which in my opinion is like carrying around an expensive hammer. The last option and an ill advised one would be to carry the weapon with a round chambered and the hammer down (which I see more often than I would have thought). Like I said before, the 1911 is a fine pistol, but the methods of carry I listed above are just not for me. I want something that I can draw, aim and shoot, with no other processes involved. That's why I figure the Glock would be a good choice. Remember, I'm not speaking in general of what is the best gun for everyone, just the best gun for me. So please 1911 folks, don't be offended by my comments. Just because the 1911 doesn't fit my requirements and tastes, doesn't mean I am saying it is a bad gun.

While I am thinking about this, what is everyone's opinion on defensive ammo? Would you choose Federal Hydra-shok, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, Remington Golden Saber, Cor-Bon or Eldorado Starfire? Or are most of these about equal? Thanks again.

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 7:25:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 7:27:14 AM EDT by hg112]
I have heard good things about Cor-bon Pow-R-Ball
You can also put a 22# recoil spring in a 21 and fire 45super.

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 9:03:03 AM EDT
those 21's are bulky but for open carry why not, I have one question though can you find hi caps for the 21 if you aren't LE?
What I don't get is how people are so comfortable carrying a glock but the 1911 hammer back scares the crap out of them.
as for ammo I like the golden sabers 230gr stay away from hydroshok they have some problems expanding. Mostly just find something that feeds in your gun. and check out Ammolab.com
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 9:27:38 AM EDT
Buy it. I've got one and love it. It goes bang every time I press the trigger and is more accurate than I am. I wouldn't carry it concealed but for open carry its great.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 10:32:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 10:33:40 AM EDT by Tailgate]
DITTO TO AIMLESS' LIST, especially points 2 and 3. If you get the Model 36 (is that the right number), it is a .45acp with a single-stack mag which will thin the grip out significantly. As for reliability, they are one of the best stock pistols.

In addition, I am always concerned about Glocks or any other Double-Action Only pistols for self-defense because in essence there is no safety. That is to say, any schlub can pick it up, point, and squeeze the trigger and it will go "boom." Except for keeping the chamber empty (NOT a wise decision), this is very dangerous. More LEO's are killed WITH THEIR OWN GUN that not.

Therefore, if you are getting a semi-automatic pistol...I recommend one with a safety.

Not to get onto the "1911's are so wonderful" rant, but single-action only pistols are THE FASTEST defensive gun, especially when carried properly cocked-and-locked. This is why they are superior as a primary defense pistol.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 10:36:59 AM EDT
Great gun, buy it. I use Federal Hydrashoks in both my G21 and G30, both run without a hitch and shoot well or as well as I can shoot 'em.

There is a point of contention though in that the trigger pull isn't always the same or rather it doesn't have to be.

You can learn to stroke the trigger on follow up shots but letting the trigger reset just enough till you hear a click, you will feel it also. It is about half stroke from the normal trigger travel. Very nice for double and triple taps or even a mag dump when you're feeling a little frisky.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:06:50 AM EDT
I recently acquiried my G21 and shoot reasonbly well with it. You will be happy with a Glock 21.
If you don't like it you can sell it off at only a small loss: there are not a whole lotta G21s out there; I hadda find mine off the web and do an FFL transfer, as no local store had a new one in stock at the time.

I like my two Colt 1911s and shoot reasonably well with the Series 80 and better with the Series 70. With a bit of a trigger job and comp bbl bushings (there is a lot of slop on both these factory Colts) I suspect there'd be an improvement.

FWIW, I do my best autoloader pistol shooting with my HK USP.40 - great SA trigger. I've been shooting it the most over the past 5 yrs or so

My best pistol shooting bar-none is with my Smith 686 .357 revolver (that 6" barrel w/long sight radius *really* helps, and the SA trigger is wonderful).

I have fairly large hands; I like the G21 because its grip "uses up" a bunch of my fist volume, so that my trigger finger tip is readily positioned squarely on the trigger face without thinking about it. On other 'thinner' guns my trigger finger goes past the trigger to the 1st joint.

I am going to put the 3.5lb disconnector in my G21 to lighten the pull a bit. (You may not wanna do this on a CCW gun, dunno.)

DO NOT SHOOT UNJACKETED AMMO out of a stock G21. If you're gonna shot unjacketed stuff (reloads), get an aftermarket barrel from reputable folks: KKM Precision, Jarvis, Bar-Sto.

Also, make sure you get the latest version with the 3rd Generation grip frame (they've been out for quite awhile but there are still some Gen2's floating around as old inventory, I'd bet).


Bill Wiese
San Mateo, CA

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:14:18 AM EDT
The trigger feel on a Glock can be easily improved to a great feeling trigger. Many competent gunsmiths can do it and there are also alot of drop in parts such as firing pins and springs which make a heck of alot of difference in the trigger pull.

Only thing I don't like about Glocks is that they tear up my left thumb, because the grip I use places my left thumb right on the disassembly lever, which is pretty sharp--when I fire, the lever bites into my left thumb some.

Great guns though.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:36:01 AM EDT
I have a Glock 21 and I have a few complaints.

1.The grips on all glocks suck when your hands are sweaty. I've tried the decal grips and they are a joke, don't waste your money. I have a hogue finger groove grip on it now and its a little better. My only complaint about the hogue grip is that it has to fit over the original finger grooves and I can't move it low enough to get my middle finger comfortable between the groove and the trigger guard.

2.I hate the mags for the glock pistol. Trying to put the last round in them is very tight. Also when you insert it in the magwell with the slide closed, you have to force it in. Regardless if the mag is hicap or 10 rd. I've tried both in models 21 and 23. Not to mention I've noticed that the polymer is starting to pull away from the steel at the feed lips. Also the mag catch is polymer and so is the catch on the magazine itself. The catch on the magazine will wear over time from use. Mostly when you have a full mag in the pistol since it has constant pressure pushing down caused by the ammo is so tight when its loaded to the max.

3.I don't care much for the angle of the grip. You have to tilt your hand down too much to get the sights on target. Its angled alot more than most other pistols. (1911, Beretta, Sig, Ruger and so on)

4.Reliablity is pretty good. I've only had trouble with wolf ammo. I thought I'd give it a try since it was cheap practice ammo. It would jam so tight I had to strain to force the slide back just to eject the brass. But all other ammo I have tried has worked great without any trouble.

5.Glock uses a polymer captured spring guide rod. It will flex and throw off accuracy. It can easily be replaced with a stainless, or tungstun guide rod which I think is better. I've also heard the polymer guide rod can break when used in very cold weather.

6.Factory slide release is flat and hard on the thumb when releasing the slide. Its easy to switch out with an after market release that is wider and more comfortable. Even the new slide release that glock is using now is still not enough. Atleast not for me.

If your looking for a polymer pistol with no external safeties that you have to worry about switching off, better grip angle, steel mags and mag catch, I would suggest a Springfield Armory Xtreme Duty pistol in 40cal. Its a great shooting pistol and to me it just feels better while handling and firing. Not to mention it doesn't cost as much as the Glock 21. People who say that since its cheaper its not as good. Thats coming from people who has never handled or shot this pistol.

Plus you can get it in black or with an olive drab frame which I think is pretty sharp. Also you can get the extended slide model that is 5" long. One inch longer than the standard model. It comes in 9mm, 40cal, or 357sig.

Just my 2 cents worth. Now all you glockaholics can flame me..LOL

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 2:40:12 PM EDT
Asking if a glock is a good weapon on this site is like asking if water is a liquid.

Glock seems to be the most popular pistol on this site.

I personally don't like them but they have a strong following even though the have the highest KB rating out of any handgun I've ever seen.

Then again, they are the most sold weapon, it only seems right that you'd hear more cases of failures, there's more of them out there!

You do what you want, but my buddies glock 21 and my glock 17 were sold 1 month after purchase.

HK forever.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:31:35 PM EDT
Allow me to be so bold as to say "Nyet" on the 21 & suggest the Glock 30 in its steed.

Chances are any 21 you buy now will have only 10rd mags. Hi-caps for 21s are boocoo bucks, WHEN you can find them. The 30 already has a flush fit 10rd cap & it balances fine, IMO.

The 21 is, IMO, too big from the get-go. The 30 is Commander sized, IOW, "just right". The 30 I owned had adj sights which I found were nice at the range.

All that being said, "H&K FOREVER"!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:40:26 PM EDT
Here is an awesome deal on a Glock 30, I just can't afford it right now

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=117998
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 8:45:39 PM EDT
If you like it, buy it. Personally I find the grip too big, but I have small hands. My agency issues the 21, and so far we've had zero problems. I'd use the 230-grain Gold Dot or the standard-velocity Winchester Ranger SXT, if you can get your hands on some.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 8:57:53 PM EDT
MurderSHO45 What exactly is a "KB rating"? Why is it the HK owners always seem to have some sort of chip on their shoulder. I'm not refering to anyone in particular, its just an impression I have. Any time someone brings up the word Glock a bunch of HK folks come out with their KB stories. Glock are great guns. Reliable, accurate and just about indestructable.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 2:02:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Glocks do have some take-up on first round fired



???

Every round fired from a Glock is the exact same trigger pull - first, last, middle of the mag, whatever.

An advantage to quickly being proficient with a pistol, I think. No SA, DA/SA, DAO - just one funky feeling "twang" triger pull.




Originally Posted By Tailgate: single-action only pistols are THE FASTEST defensive gun, especially when carried properly cocked-and-locked


Unless you forget to thumb the safety. Seen it during relaxed range shoots - might happen more often during SHTF. I know, I know - it's a training issue. How quick can you do it if your right hand is disabled? Maybe they make ambi-safety paddles - I don't know.



Originally Posted By NightHawk: The catch on the magazine will wear over time from use. Mostly when you have a full mag in the pistol since it has constant pressure pushing down caused by the ammo is so tight when its loaded to the max.


Wrong. I have NEVER seen this. The above would cause wear on the TOP of the magazine's catch notch and the TOP of the mag catch. Never seen it. What I HAVE seen is the BOTTOM of the magazine's catch notch mushroomed slightly from folks slapping their mags in hard. The mushrooming will only go so far, btw - won't keep wearing till there's "no catch left".



Originally Posted By NightHawk: Factory slide release is flat and hard on the thumb when releasing the slide. Its easy to switch out with an after market release that is wider and more comfortable. Even the new slide release that glock is using now is still not enough.



Not a slide release - it's a slide LOCK. You should ALWAYS practice getting the slide home after slide lock with a manual retraction of the slide.

continued.....
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 2:03:16 AM EDT
The reasons are numerous and I will list the one's I can think of off the top of my head in order of importance.

1. You fight like you practice. Get that muscle memory ingrained where racking the slide is second nature. During a malfunction you'll retract, roll to right (unless you have one of those funky left/top eject pistols), release, smack the mag, fire (some smack the mag first - I don't do that because there's a 99.9999999% chance I inserted my mag correctly). You want a slide retraction to be effortless and natural. Ever go to the range with a newbie and watch them phuck around trying to rack a slide? Try to be as un-newbie at this as possible - be a slide racking pro.

2. This one motion works for ALL autoloaders with the "standard" frame/slide configuration. Try thumbing the "release" on some pistols, especially ones that you aren't intimately familiar with, and you'll be hitting the safety - NOT the "release". Seen it with folks shooting Sig, HK, and 1911 pistols. Not a problem with Glocks due to no external safeties, but KISS applies here. Many smaller caliber autoloaders don't even HAVE slide locks. KISS.

3. If I'm in a less than hospitable environment, I want as much force as possible slamming that slide home. Gamers thumb their race guns because it's fast. Movie stars thumb their guns because it looks cool. Combat shooters should manually retract because it is a more positive way of chambering a round. Treat it like it's full of sand or mud - some day, it might be.......

4. It wears the slide and slide lock. Even on a Glock - king of longevity. Eventually you will degrade the lockup between these tow surfaces and won't have lock after mag empty and will have precarious lock when inspecting the firearm, ect. Not a biggie since the slide locks are cheap - as are all Glock parts (sans barrel, slide, frame) and the frame's lock notch can be reground, but it is an issue. Yes, it will take ~100,000 rounds or whatever for this to be an issue - well past the failure point of lots of other pistols!

5. Finally - bcause Gaston Glock called it a slide LOCK!


The "new slide release that glock is using" is for their GAME guns - 34&35, ect. Other than that, what you're seeing is an aftermarket part, or a part ordered from glock and user/smith installed (unless special ordered that way).

The serrations are for grip in RAISING the lock to keep the slide back for inspection, ect. The lock is supposed to be small and close to the pistol - - and hard to snag - and fast to un-holster.


FINALLY - FINALLY - buy the 21, Charging_Handle!

Link Posted: 6/15/2002 2:34:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 2:41:32 AM EDT by Tate]
Almost forgot - as for grip angle, the glock is perfect for natural ergonomics.

If you are used to shooting pistols shaped like the lego pistols you made as a kid (didn't everybody?) - basically an "L", then the Glock WILL feel funny.

Now, lets look at natural ergonomics. Pointing a handgun should be like pointing your finger - many instructors incorporate this adage.

Hold out your hand and point at something ahead of you naturally. Now rotate your hand turning the palm in until your palm is vertical - like you're holding a pistol - remember to keep pointing ahead of you - that's as natural as you're gonna get. That's close to how you're holding a Glock with a target at eye/chest level.

Now grab your "L" pistol and naturally (no cheating!)point your finger while gripping it. Your finger isn't parallel with the slide is it? You have to force your finger down just a tad to get at the trigger.

Also, the shock of recoil is easier to handle with your hand in this more natural position. It's transmitted more naturally straight back through your arm, not as easy to torque your wrist as with the "L" pistol.

This is why you will hear many say that Glocks seem to shoot "softer" - or that they feel more controlable.

Just my opinions.


And NightHawk - olive drab frames ARE sharp!

My name is Tate, and I'm a Glockaholic...

Hi Tate....

LOL!

To all - if you love guns, I love you! Can't we just get along?

Link Posted: 6/16/2002 6:39:50 AM EDT
Seems that the G30 is more popular than the G21 according to most folks over at glocktalk. Many have said that the G30 is more accurate. It certainly is more concealable & you can still use the 13 round mags from the the G21 in the G30 if capacity is a concern for you. See if you can rent both somewhere before you decide.

I chose a G30.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 8:18:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fingers:
MurderSHO45 What exactly is a "KB rating"? Why is it the HK owners always seem to have some sort of chip on their shoulder. I'm not refering to anyone in particular, its just an impression I have. Any time someone brings up the word Glock a bunch of HK folks come out with their KB stories. Glock are great guns. Reliable, accurate and just about indestructable.



If you read my posts you will see that I owned a 17 for a month. During this time it didn't have one problem, and I put at least 500 rounds through it.
It just didn't work out for me and my buddy.
Grip angle, trigger feel, I like external hammers and safety, my personal choice.

It's kind of the same reason I will probably never drive an automatic, I like to be in control of what I'm operating, a manual tranny, external hammers and safety's is what I choose.

If I was to do a search on AR15 under KB's, you will see that there is more glock KB's then any other.

This is probably "most sold" theory though, they are perfectly fine weapons and I would trust my life you one.

Sounds like your the one with a chip on YOUR shoulder.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 8:41:15 AM EDT
I just won a Glock 21 in a raffle yesterday. Its a 'America's Heroes 9-11-01' commemorative. It looks pretty sweet and will probably be my carry gun when CCW passes in Ohio. I've been very happy with Glocks. The only downfall I see is that I can't shoot cheap lead through it, which is unfortunate. I shoot lead through my other weapons for target shooting mostly because its so much cheaper to load. Go For It!
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 8:43:04 AM EDT
Charging_Handle,

WELL??? Did you buy the damn thing??
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 9:10:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 9:12:20 AM EDT by Fingers]
MurderSHO45 "If I was to do a search on AR15 under KB's, you will see that there is more glock KB's then any other"

Well that proves it. Glocks blow up more than any other gun because you did a search on AR15.com and you found some posts that said so. If you check the authors you'll probably find they are by the same HK owners with a chip on their shoulder I mentioned. I'm not saying its never happened, it has and does. Usually due to doing something Glock says not to do or faulty ammo. It happens with all types of weapons. I just find it amusing that whenever Glock is mentioned, folks, usually HK owners, come out of the woodwork to slam them. Most times its about some second hand "KB" story they heard somewhere. I never see it work the other way around. GLocks are great weapons, not works of art by any means, but great tools for the job they were designed for.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 9:57:43 PM EDT
Lets look at the KB thing another way. Glock is arguably the most prolific brand of gun on the market aside form 1911 clones. If Glock, HK, and Sig for example have a failure rate of 1% and glock has 2 million guns on the market, and HK and sig each have a million the glock is gonna look worse on paper because they had 20,000 pistols fail while the other guys each only have 10,000. Statistically they are equal. When you have more of your product on the market you have more of them in potentially stupid peoples hands who are not gonna read manuals, and who aren't gonna do proper maintenence. I think this is real cause for the common KB thing we always hear, well that and HKers are jealous.

BrenLover
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 10:25:44 PM EDT
Hope you bought that G21.

You can even shoot copper plated SWCs in that gun and out to 25 yards, in skilled hands, it's just as accurate as a quality 1911 but you can drop the Glock in mud and run over it in a tank and it still shoots.

Get a Federal Arms SS barrel for $75 on a group purchase and you can even shoot LSWCs.

Other than my competition G34 in 9mm, it's the most accurate stock Glock I own. Sub two inch groups at 25 yards - my handloads - offhand - Weaver stance.

The AR-15 of the pistol world.

Love mine!
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 10:30:07 PM EDT
BTW - most guns have kaboomed in the past. As stated above, Glock has the civilian market and lots of people like to shoot poor quality cheap third world produced ammo. And they account for many of those kabooms you hear about.

I've even heard of 9mm's going boom.

But if you don't load your own, it's a big risk for you because your eye will not catch a deeply seated round or you won't hear or notice the weight difference in a no-charge round.

But if you reload, those things are instinctive.

And that's how you avoid the KB - reload your own.

But in 45 ACP, the pressure is so low, it's KB risk is low so I wouldn't worry. Even nice 1911s have KB. Not the gun, the ammo.

If you're worried about KBs, buy a 4 pound Star Megastar and you'll always be fine.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 4:56:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2002 4:57:32 AM EDT by Tailgate]

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:
Lets look at the KB thing another way. Glock is arguably the most prolific brand of gun on the market aside form 1911 clones.....I think this is real cause for the common KB thing we always hear, well that and HKers are jealous.



OK...can't let this pass without some comments.

First, If 1911's are the most prolific gun on the market (they are not CLONES...no one company owns the 1911 design), then why do I see so few for sale at gun shows IN COMPARISON to Glocks? I see Glocks for sale to the point of lunacy. This is not a chance occurence, this says something good about the 1911 and something not-as-good about the Glocks.

Secondly, (Fingers, take note!) I see far more malfunctions at IDPA matches with Glocks than I do with any other pistol...and typically 1911s are most commonly used in ANY matches including IPDA and IPSC. I saw so many malfunctions at one IDPA match I made a comment to another shooter to the effect of, "What's with all the 'old faithful Glocks' malfunctioning so much?" His response was, "I see it all the time with Glocks." This was not an anti-Glock sentiment, just an observation.

Again, I have to defend Glock as being a solid stock pistol even though they're ugly as sin. I would definitely pick an HK over a Glock, but I own neither...because I'd pick a 1911 over everything.

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 6:21:41 AM EDT
Easy killer...Read this again very carefully..."Glock is arguably the most prolific brand of gun on the market aside form 1911 clones". This means the 1911s are the most prolific followed by Glock, maybe I worded it in a confusing manner but I dont think so.

All 1911s are basically clones of the original 1911 so my statement is true reguardless of who makes them.

I have shot and seen shot 1911s and many model of glocks and have never seen a failure in either that wasn't attributable to the shooter or ammo, both guns are that good, of course when smith and manufacturers have had 90 years to perfect the 1911 they should be.

My point was simply to provide another possibility to why all these "friend of a friend told me stories" come up.

BrenLover
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 7:33:43 AM EDT
Tailgate You could probably get the same response about 1911's or HK's on a different day at a different match. In my limited experience with my G21 it has never malfunctioned in thousands of rounds. I shoot all types of factory ammo but I don't reload. Out of the box stock with good factory ammo, I would bet that Glocks are more reliable and as accurate than any handgun on the market especially for the price.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 8:35:45 AM EDT
Ok, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to buy this pistol or not. Most people's comments seemed favorable, but the KB stories as well as the frequent report of malfunctions from someone has made me at least step back and think. I may just save my money and hold out for a Sig Sauer P220. I realize it holds 2 rounds less, but I have owned Sig's and currently own a Sig P229 and can vouch for their reliability and quality. My Sig is also the pistol I shoot better than all the rest I have tried so that is an important consideration. While not everyone here would choose a Sig Sauer, I have yet to hear anyone anywhere ever say anything bad about them. And the Sig has a steel frame which might just fair better with my loads of choice for the .45, which is either Black Hills or Ranger 230 gr +P. I'll let everyone know what I decide when I do.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 8:53:05 AM EDT
Do you shoot the gun well?
I shoot a model 30 very well. I switched to a 19 and the narrow grip screwed me up. It took 1,500 rounds to get myself dialed back in. Glocks are Ugly, don't like lead ammo, plactic. However they tend to be reliable when using a good mag and good ammo. (Sounds like our AR's) The finish typically doesn't rust.
And, as with all firearms. The safety is your finger and brain.
I love 1911's. HK's are nice but the geometry (grip angle is steep) Makes the muzzle flip more when I shoot one. Sig's are great but I don't shoot one well. We have a master class (IDPA) shooter that shoots a ruger P-89 with the plastic grip. My point is this. If you shoot the gun well and it is reliable, who cares. The glock will have good resale value if you can't seem to get used to it. Go forth and give it a try.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 5:23:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:
Easy killer...Read this again very carefully..."Glock is arguably the most prolific brand of gun on the market aside form 1911 clones". This means the 1911s are the most prolific followed by Glock, maybe I worded it in a confusing manner but I dont think so.

All 1911s are basically clones of the original 1911 so my statement is true reguardless of who makes them.



I don't get your point. I understood this exactly as you have restated...and my post seems clear. "If 1911's are the most prolific gun on the market" (just as you have restated) "then why do I see so few for sale at gun shows IN COMPARISON to Glocks?" My post seemed clear.

Also, my other point was that there is no such thing as a 1911 clone...as clearly stated. The 1911 design is the 1911 design, anyone can make it. Therefore, they are not clones at all but simply 1911's.

Now...ParaOrdnance's pistols would be considered "clones" because they are not fully the 1911 design. That is, they have a double action trigger and the internal workings are different. In this case, it is a different gun that LOOKS LIKE a 1911 design, but functions differently.

Maybe we're splitting hairs. I just feel that my post quite clearly responded to your comments in context...and that it was MY post that was misunderstood.

No harm, no foul, no hurt feelings!!!!
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:31:00 PM EDT
Because it is my belief that Glock has saturated the market with an equal quality gun at half the price. The numer you see at shows of any one gun is not indicative of the overall numbers in use.

BrenLover
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 9:47:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Even though it is a safe practice, I will never carry a gun cocked and locked. ...I want something that I can draw, aim and shoot, with no other processes involved.


Why not carry a 1911 cocked with safety OFF? Is this less safe than carrying a Glock?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:15:47 AM EDT
HK USPf .45 is all you need..
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:43:39 AM EDT
Any more children want to duke it out with me about glocks?

I think when I said, "I would trust my life to glock", should pretty much sum up that I'm neutral to a certain point.

About the comment I made about doing a search on AR15.com for KB and glocks would be the biggest hits.

That was just an example, if you would just grow the F up and read things for what they are and not for what you WANT them to be, we wouldn't be yelling at one another.

Besides, a handgun is a weapon you use to get to your rifle, and we all agree on our rifles, right Fingers?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:24:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Ok, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to buy this pistol or not. Most people's comments seemed favorable, but the KB stories as well as the frequent report of malfunctions from someone has made me at least step back and think. I may just save my money and hold out for a Sig Sauer P220. I realize it holds 2 rounds less, but I have owned Sig's and currently own a Sig P229 and can vouch for their reliability and quality. My Sig is also the pistol I shoot better than all the rest I have tried so that is an important consideration. While not everyone here would choose a Sig Sauer, I have yet to hear anyone anywhere ever say anything bad about them. And the Sig has a steel frame which might just fair better with my loads of choice for the .45, which is either Black Hills or Ranger 230 gr +P. I'll let everyone know what I decide when I do.



The Sig P220 has an aluminum frame if im not mistaken. Like the Beretta.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:28:10 PM EDT
Glocks are the BEST handguns. Period.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 3:48:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Glocks are the BEST handguns. Period.



Concur.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:49:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Glocks are the BEST handguns. Period.



Concur.



I'll third your assumption
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:00:30 PM EDT
I think that there is more to it than Glock is Perfection. Some people don't shoot them as well as some other pistols. They are fantastic pistols. However if your hands don't fit them well, you will have a hard time. But that goes for any pistol. Buy it, Shoot it, then decide if you like it. It will still have excellent resale value. Heck, there are enough Glock lovers on this site you could sell it to one of them.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:10:54 PM EDT
PS:
The best handgun is the one that you have when the SHTF.

So choose wisely.
I could tell you about a buddy of mine who owns a pawn shop. He was robbed and went for a hide out gun that he had that someone lost on a loan. He had it behind the fridge. Never fired it before. Amimus 357 mag. Well what we can gather is the the reason the person never bothered to come back and get it outta pawn is becuse the lockwork and timing was all screwed up. DBL action it wouldn't fire. He nearly died that day. The perp. Decided for flight instead of fight. There was a shoot out at the door as the guy was splitting. The shotgun was the next thing that was grabbed. Any way my point is shoot several boxes of (cpl hundred) what you are going to carry. Not some cheap ball target ammo. Get to know your new pistol. Yes it's expensive. But what's your life worth these days?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:38:53 PM EDT
MurderSHO45- Dude, whatever you say. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. You just made some rather nonsensical arguments. I could care less how you feel about Glocks or any other weapon for that matter.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 9:04:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgate:


First, If 1911's are the most prolific gun on the market (they are not CLONES...no one company owns the 1911 design), then why do I see so few for sale at gun shows IN COMPARISON to Glocks?



I think that you see more Glocks for sale because they are popular. Dealers stock lots of them because they sell and stick them right out in front for the same reason. The 1911 on the other hand is like the senior citizen voting thing. You don't really notice them because of the high capacity, plastic gun craze that has been going on---but they have a huge (read: HUGE), dedicated following. 1911 undoubtably have been produced in a unbelievable number that I'm sure no other design even comes close to.

The Glock, though, is an operator's pistol. Rugged, simple, something that you can abuse and abuse and it will keep on going bang. You don't buy a Glock for looks, you buy it to use-plain and simple.

Link Posted: 6/21/2002 10:16:06 PM EDT
I trust my glock 21 completely and I trust my HKusp-45 and my sig 220 as well. I have no problems with any of them. The trigger on the glock is good for second shots , but the first shop is kind of rough. I remove the stock 5.5 lb glock trigger parts and install the 3.5 lb connectors in all my glocks. The sig is the accuracy king of the three, but it is only a tab better than the HK. The Hk is well designed and built , but is huge. The sig 220 and the glock 21 are the same price last time I checked at D&R sports in PA. The Hk is more money. I have no worrys about magazine capacity being 7 or 10 ..or 13 whatever. The glock will do well under the most abuse , but how many of us abuse our guns ??? I guess look at a sig and the glock and see what grip feels better. The glock finger grooves are terrible for my hands, the sig grip is perfect and you can make the gun narrower or thicker or rough or smooth by changing out the side panels.. something of an advantage of just the sig. I know you will be impressed and think you made the best possible decision with any of the three. If you get the glock I would replace the cheap plastic sights with metal ones and get a captured metal guide rod and a couple lb heavier recoil spring. I also would replace the connector on the glock to get a decent trigger pull. I do those things on every glock before I think they work well.
By the way the requirement to get the sig absolutely perfect is to remove it from the box and load it... !!!!
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